The C-Brats Forum Index
HomeForumsMy TopicsCalendarEvent SignupsMemberlistOur C-DorysThe Brat MapPhotos

Repower Time
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The C-Brats Forum Index -> General Chat
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
cdoryfan



Joined: 03 Jan 2024
Posts: 16
City/Region: New England
State or Province: RI
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: cdoryfan
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2024 7:11 pm    Post subject: Repower Time Reply with quote

For reasons that can best be summed up by "I'm a dummy", it's time to repower... and fast.

I know there has been a bunch of discussion over the years, but also engines and manufacturers develop and change over time. I thought I would ask the question this way, if the same boat (c-dory 22) came on the market and you were looking to buy, would you prefer it to have...

- Mercury 115 comand thrust
- Yamaha 115
- Suzuki 100 (the 115 is really heavy)
- Honda 100 (115 is also really heave)
- (tohatsu is out)

For those interested, the only quote I've gotten yet is for the 115 Mercury command thrust at just under 15k for everything (install is 1300 included in that quote).

Relevant data, will be salt water kept on mooring (so flushing with fresh is unlikely)

I'd be very curious in your thoughts.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Flashyfish



Joined: 07 Mar 2023
Posts: 22
City/Region: Windsor
State or Province: CA
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 19 Angler
Vessel Name: Kraken
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2024 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Honda 100 uses the 90 HP powerhead. It requires high octane premium gasoline to get you to 100 HP.

The Yamaha 115 is a great motor. Runs quiet and has a good weight to HP ratio. I bought one brand new and ran it for 6 years and 1000 hours without problems. Sold it with the boat.
I have also purchased a brand new Yamaha 90 for my C Dory and it was trouble free for the 5 years and 1200 hours I had it. Sold that and just installed a brand new Honda 90. So far trouble free as well.

What I like about the Honda is that it has a timing chain instead of a timing belt that Yamaha runs.

All of these newer motors require one main ingredient. Clean, filtered, water free gas.The high performance fuel injection systems need good fuel.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
T.R. Bauer



Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 1737
City/Region: Wasilla
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Whisperer
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2024 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd buy the one with dealer support nearby. But I honestly have had such good luck with both Yamaha and Honda, that I'd probably buy those no matter what if the deal was even close to competitive. Curious, why no Tohatsu? I have had a couple small ones and they were fine. A friend has a 20hp one and I think it literally makes gasoline while on the water.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Reelin2



Joined: 18 Oct 2022
Posts: 25
City/Region: Ferndale
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 1990
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: Reelin2
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2024 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I donít think you can go wrong with any of the new EFI motors. As previously mentioned Ethanol Free fuel will eliminate many future issues and not a bad idea to support the dealer that will do your warranty service should it be needed. I repowered last year with a 115 Mercury command thrust, No complaints and I love the torque it provides.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gstraub



Joined: 02 Aug 2017
Posts: 114
City/Region: Callao
State or Province: VA
C-Dory Year: 1998
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: EnDoryFun
Photos: EnDoryFun
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2024 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We repowered our 22 with a Mercury 90 Command Thrust about a year and a half ago and have been very happy with the performance. No issues so far.
_________________
Gerhard
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
cdoryfan



Joined: 03 Jan 2024
Posts: 16
City/Region: New England
State or Province: RI
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: cdoryfan
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2024 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting / thanks for the comments / good advice re-fuel.

Iím fortunate to live within 5 miles of a dealer for each of those manufacturers so Iím trying to figure out my actual goal.

Really interesting re honda needing premium fuel, makes me think that may be off the list as the 115 Honda is too heavy.

I donít want a tohatsu because I have a tendency to only keep a boat for a few years and resale is important to me. That being said I have some experience with tohatsus and they are fantastic. (Other reason is I clearly cannot spell it!).

The resale thing is pushing me towards Yamaha, but Iím worried about price and lead time which may also have an effect.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cdoryfan



Joined: 03 Jan 2024
Posts: 16
City/Region: New England
State or Province: RI
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: cdoryfan
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2024 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update: I went with a Suzuki 115 (deposit down at least). I realize i had previously said too heavy, but on further review it seems people put them on with no trouble. Price was a bit better than others, and lead time is excellent (within 2 weeks they tell me).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
T.R. Bauer



Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 1737
City/Region: Wasilla
State or Province: AK
C-Dory Year: 1993
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Whisperer
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2024 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cdoryfan wrote:
Update: I went with a Suzuki 115 (deposit down at least). I realize i had previously said too heavy, but on further review it seems people put them on with no trouble. Price was a bit better than others, and lead time is excellent (within 2 weeks they tell me).


I think they weigh a tad over 400 pounds. That isn't too much.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Xtraplus18



Joined: 14 Jan 2022
Posts: 8
City/Region: Vancouver
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Handler
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2024 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Suzuki 115 on my 22í Cruiser, so far it has been a great engine. Seem to have good low end power and sounds great too! I like the gauge better than on my other boat with a 2021 Yamaha 150. I have always liked Yamaha engines and have not had any issues either.

I am very pleased with the the Suzuki 115hp and 9.9 hp kicker.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cdoryfan



Joined: 03 Jan 2024
Posts: 16
City/Region: New England
State or Province: RI
C-Dory Year: 2004
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Photos: cdoryfan
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2024 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thatís great to hear! Xtraplus, do you mind sharing what prop you use with the Suzuki?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
[email protected]



Joined: 13 Apr 2024
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2024 11:08 am    Post subject: Repower transom weight Reply with quote

I'm confused. Do not the specs for the C-22 indicated a max transom weight of 500 pounds (combined weight of outboards plus batteries)? If yes, then is it prudent to repower with 115 hp Suzuki (410#), 9.9 hp Suzuki Kicker (120#) with two batteries in the transom lockers (2 x 45# = 90#), for a total transom weight of 620#? Just asking?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20839
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2024 11:53 am    Post subject: Re: Repower transom weight Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
I'm confused. Do not the specs for the C-22 indicated a max transom weight of 500 pounds (combined weight of outboards plus batteries)? If yes, then is it prudent to repower with 115 hp Suzuki (410#), 9.9 hp Suzuki Kicker (120#) with two batteries in the transom lockers (2 x 45# = 90#), for a total transom weight of 620#? Just asking?


Two 40 or 50 Hondas @ 214# each is 428#, plus 2 group 24 batteries ~ 60#, is a frequent & popular configuration. The 22 initially had 70 hp outboards which in the early 1980s weight was in the mid 200# range.

Thru the years the hp rating has been increased to 115 hp. I am aware of some 22's with up to 140 hp. I don't suggest that. But when you use heavier motors, then trim tabs and Permatrims are necessary to get the best performance out of the boat. That recommendation is based on both practical knowledge and demonstrated performance on boats with and without these additions.

I don't recollect anyplace that the builder has specified a weight involving batteries--and if so, that is not on the transom--it may be in the area between the two fuel tanks, or in the small lazarets on each side above the fuel tanks.

The current Honda 115 is the same block as the 140 and 150 hp motors, and is in the 480# area. I have run 22's with 3 group 31 batteries, a kicker and a storage chest or freezer, just forward of the splash well. A Honda generator mounted above the splash well, etc. No problem, as long as you trim the boat properly.

_________________
Bob Austin
Thataway
Thataway (Ex Seaweed) 2007 25 C Dory May 2018 to Oct. 2021
Thisaway 2006 22' CDory November 2011 to May 2018
Caracal 18 140 Suzuki 2007 to present
Thataway TomCat 255 150 Suzukis June 2006 thru August 2011
C Pelican; 1992, 22 Cruiser, 2002 thru 2006
Frequent Sea; 2003 C D 25, 2007 thru 2009
KA6PKB
Home port: Pensacola FL
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
[email protected]



Joined: 13 Apr 2024
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2024 12:38 pm    Post subject: Weight on Transom 500# Limit referenced on Page 5 of Manual Reply with quote

Hmmm...within C-Brats please see 'Documents', C-Dory Manuals, C-Dory 22 PDF, Page 5, Motors; "...A normally loaded transom would be about 375 pounds, motors and batteries. The maximum should not exceed 500 lbs. The issue is not the strength of the transom, but rather the balance of the boat. An over-heavy transom will cause the boat to plane slowly and ride hard...". I've underlined 'and batteries' and 'not to exceed 500 lbs' to emphasize that batteries are also included in transom weight whether located in the lazarette lockers or on the deck between the fuel tanks. Dr. Austin is correct that trim can still be achieved with transom loads over 500 lbs, but at what cost to fuel efficiency?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
thataway



Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 20839
City/Region: Pensacola
State or Province: FL
C-Dory Year: 2007
C-Dory Model: 25 Cruiser
Vessel Name: thataway
Photos: Thataway
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2024 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
'Documents', C-Dory Manuals, C-Dory 22 PDF, Page 5, Motors; "...A normally loaded transom would be about 375 pounds, motors and batteries. The maximum should not exceed 500 lbs. The issue is not the strength of the transom, but rather the balance of the boat. An over-heavy transom will cause the boat to plane slowly and ride hard...".


You are correct that this is in the Manual of 02-01-2000, Thank you. Certainly many things have changed in the last 24 years. For example the fuel tank capacity is listed as 40 gallons. Many of the boats are 46 and some 50 gallons (A few earlier boats had large single tanks, with over 70 gallons of fuel) Fuel weight being a little over the 6 lbs/gallon, that will place as much as another 60 lbs in the "transom area" with "two standard tanks".

The reality is that many of the boats are run heavier than the recommended weights in this Manual. I am probably as guilty as anyone, since we often outfitted our 22's for a month on the water, and had hundreds of lbs of food, extra water, dinghy, anchoring gear, etc aboard. The nice thing about a Dory or Semi dory is that weighting the hull to a certain point will actually improve the ride--if you maintain proper trim.

As far as loading and fuel efficiency. I am sure that you are correct, but It has not been a factor for us, even in relatively remote areas. 'We find a heavily loaded boat runs about the same at displacement speeds. At WOT, definitely yes. I don't have a fuel curve on the 22 with weight. I was able to compare the fuel curve with a previous owner and what I found with a heavily loaded 25. There there is a 100 gallon fuel tank, (a bit forward, under the cockpit) and the level of the fuel does make a difference--as would the loading of the cockpit. However the difference was less than one would speculate.

Has the weight hung on the transom made a difference in safety or realistic use of the boat? I would say "no" within certain boundaries. The examples being the common use of twin 40 or 50 hp engines, and up to 3 batteries up to group 31. Also the glassed in floor (and the optional removable flat floor) in the cockpit area, is a significant weight. Where people sit when under way also changes the way the boat handles (as well as side to side trim) the boat's handling characteristics. A prudent mariner makes allowances for these changes, and is able to control the boat, and get the most efficient ride. The boat is touted as a 4 person boat...in reality the only way to seat 4 in the cabin, is to convert the dinette to a "Sofa" (one of our boats had cushions for that options) then you develop a significant port list at rest, but this can be removed with trim tabs at speeds.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Xtraplus18



Joined: 14 Jan 2022
Posts: 8
City/Region: Vancouver
State or Province: WA
C-Dory Year: 2005
C-Dory Model: 22 Cruiser
Vessel Name: C-Handler
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2024 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

19 x 14 3 blade prop. Planes nicely and does well cruising at 15mph to 27mph. Has more throttle left for faster top end.

Like Thataway said you can add weight to the bow if it is a concern. I am new to owning a C-Dory. These are extraordinary vessels. I cannot believe how well they track especially when trolling.

No issues with getting on plane with the weight on the transom. I also have a Permatrim on the 115hp Suzuki.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The C-Brats Forum Index -> General Chat All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
     Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum



Page generation time: 0.0512s (PHP: 68% - SQL: 32%) - SQL queries: 32 - GZIP disabled - Debug on