22 Cruiser Enclosure Advice

V

VisionsofJohanna

New member
Hi,
I recently purchased a 1992 22' Cruiser. It came with nearly new canvas for a cockpit camping enclosure - Top, 2 sides and the back. The seller was not able to locate the framing. I called a semi-local shop and they told me it would be nearly impossible to reverse engineer the framing and he would question any shop that would take on the job because the results would likely suck. He did, however, offer to build me a new enclosure for 3-4K. Yikes.

I am wondering if anyone has run dealt with a situation and is it really that difficult to fit framing to the canvas? Is it possible to DIY something like this. I'd really like to use the enclosure and it was a real selling point for me and my wife. I have some other things to do to the boat that are more of a priority financially and 3-4K is a big chunk of change for us. Also, it seems a shame to toss these nice panels. Thanks in advance for any input. ~ Doug
 
I would think that it would be much easier to reverse engineer the framing than build a whole new enclosure. Canvas framing is not that hard (lots easier than the canvas work itself). Perhaps a bit time consuming though. Maybe they just want to upsell you.

I would check more shops.
 
I agree with ssobol - check another shop. These guys have ways of measuring and calculating angles, etc. that are very precise and quick. An experienced canvass worker should be able to do it. They could even mock up a frame from cheap electrical conduit(or) to get the geometry nailed down then once satisfied make one out of stainless. The guy that built my camper top made it look so easy but he had years of experience and is now retired.

Do you know where the previous owner had it made? I have heard that some guys will come to your boat - take all their measurements with a laser - and make your top without even having the boat there.

Good luck,

Rob
 
I would definitely go talk to another fabricator. The folks that make canvas enclosures are proficient at bending tubing tubing to various hull configurations. The bending dies are fairly standard so anyone with a background in tubing bending should be able to match what you have. If you search thru some of the posts on the subject you should be able to find some of the companies that have made canopies for CDorys in the past depending on your location. Good luck.
 
Robert H. Wilkinson":1qpjlh5k said:
Do you know where the previous owner had it made? I have heard that some guys will come to your boat - take all their measurements with a laser - and make your top without even having the boat there.

Rob
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Unfortunately, no. The previous owner purchased the boat from out of State (Nevada), 5 or years ago. He just used the boat for fishing by himself and never used the canvas and can't find the framing now.
 
I'm not a pro, but I have done a fair bit of canvas and I can see the shop's perspective. I do think you should talk to another shop!

Tiny changes/differences in where the bimini is held and how it is tensioned will project out to big differences in where your camper sides attach to the cockpit. It's going to take a lot of time to get right.

I don't understand the perspective that getting the tubing right is easier than doing the entire project. Canvas is patterned on frames, structures, hard points, known-positions. Not the other way around. The bows are the easy part of a project, but only because you are then patterning everything off that framework.

I would feel much more confident in getting a good result building an entire enclosure from scratch than I would reverse engineering the exact arcs, bends, angles, lengths, etc. to fit an existing enclosure. I'm also not sure which would take me longer to get a good result. Maybe that's just me, but I definitely understand where this shop is coming from.
 
I agree that you can engineer a frame for you enclosure.

All you need is a bare frame to fit your bimini or top canvas on. From there, you attach the sides and the back pieces and and see how close everything fits.

If you look on page 1 of my photos, you see the side picture of the green 22 Cruiser we used to own. It has the main frame with one bow. Both of those go into pockets sewn or zippered on the underside of the bimini. From the there the sides and back get zippered on.

I'll bet if you post that you need help, many C-Brats in the Puget Sound area would assist.

It might take 2-3 trips to different 22s, but I'll bet you will find one. When you do, you might be able to borrow the frame and have your shop measure it so they can duplicate it.

I would also request a photo album from the moderators. That way you can post pictures of your bimini, side panels and back along with measurements that helpful C-Brats can see and compare to their panels.

Sure is worth a try to save $3-4000.
 
I don't know all of the circumstances, but if a functioning Camper enclosure was part of the advertisement, no matter where, The seller should make an adjustment to the price. A new enclosure could easily cost $5,000. I have made one dodger, canvas/top etc. My friend had a tubing bender, which made a lot of difference. slip on fittings are used for many of them.

A good canvas shop could do the geometry. It would cost more, because they would have to come to the boat...or the boat to them (better). You know where the attachment point of the main bow is located. You know where the top fits from the zipper tubes which hold the top. You know where every single point is on the outside of that top because of the camper canvas. This measurement process will probably take 2 or 3 people. Measure a series of points, it is not all that hard. I think with the measurements from the canvas, you get a good outline of the roof. You can then calculate the "crown of the bow at the top. I think the canvas shop wants the business of a new top...more profit.

Sailrite makes both 2 and 3 bow kits. You could buy one of those , put your top in it, and then. start working the length of each frame to make it fit perfectly--not cheap, (Almost $800.) That is the way I would do it if you don't have any canvas experience.
 
I agree with Bob. Might be easiest to buy a frame. Sailrite has excellent instructions and many videos on YouTube. Aluminum is totally workable and less expensive. You really only need to visit a couple local C-Dorys to get an idea what will work.

Another direction is to call to see if local canvas shops may have old bows that they are going to recycle or sell.

Port Townsend may have a couple shops. You might also give King Marine Canvas in Seattle a call.

Longship Marine in Poulsbo is a used marine supply store, they may have a frame that you can start with.
 
I'm going to agree with WCF here. First, I agree, get some other shop estimates. But I also know that might be hard. Here where I live there is a very limited number of shops that I know of that make Bimini's and enclosures. And he does a great job. (ie, only one I know of.) It's one thing to bend the stainless, then sew up canvas to fit. It's another to bend tubing to fit canvas. In the long run, you may end up spending more on labor to get the tubing right. Perhaps the frame can be made, and then your canvas can be cut and pieced together, along with some new canvas to save cost on materials.
 
I would call Daniel Baroni 253 313 3803. I have had him do both of my Bimini and was pleased with the quality and price. He works out of his house in Gig Harbor.
 
Salmon Fisher":3usmi82z said:
I agree that you can engineer a frame for you enclosure.

Sure is worth a try to save $3-4000.
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Thank you for the suggestions! The pic of your enclosure is very similar to what I imagine my unit was designed to be like. I will definitely request a photo album and ask for assistance if I go the route of trying to do it myself. I agree it's worth a try! :D
 
Standas":2ygt13je said:
I would call Daniel Baroni 253 313 3803. I have had him do both of my Bimini and was pleased with the quality and price. He works out of his house in Gig Harbor.
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Thanks for the lead! I will give him a call and run it by him. :D
 
Salmom Fisher has a great idea to check consignment shops.

Another source of a cheap frame, you can then cut and customize Overtons' frames. They have multiple aluminum frame kits. Get the one which has a the nearest measurements, over what you measure you need. Then use the cheap aluminum frame to configure a perfect match for your boat. Use and if you want then you have a templet for a 1" SS pipe or tubing frame, which will last longer than the boat.
 
King Marine Canvas in Seattle (Ballard) currently makes camper tops for the C-Dory 22. They have a lot of experience with C-Dories. You might want to check with them to see if your canvas is one of theirs. If so, they have all the measurements for the frames.
 
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