Advantages of C-Dory ?

sapple

New member
Hi all, I am new to the fourm. I am researching trailerable cruisers in the 25' range and joined to find out more about C-Dorys.

I am looking for a boat that can serve as a weekend, all weather, get away on the water and possibly extended cruises for 1-6 weeks, mostly in semi-protected waters like the ICW. I am not interested in fishing, water sports, or diving. Most of the time the boat would be used for one or two people. I currently own and Boston Whaler 170 Montauk. I live in Virginia so the climate is moderate.

What are the advantages (and disadvantages) of a cruiser like the 25 C-Dory over other cruisers like a Sea Ray 25 Sundancer?

Thanks for your help.

Scott
 
We have a 22 Cruiser and also a BW 20 Dauntless. Both are great boats. I don't have experience with the 25 but I'm sure others will chime in with advice.

The pilothouse design offers a lot of benefits. In the summer the pilothouse is protects the occupants from sun and generally remains cooler than it is outside. In the winter, if you equip the boat with a heater, it stays warm and dry.

Probably the biggest feature that sets the C-Dories apart from other pilothouse boats is the hull design. Rather than a deep V, the C-Dories have an essentially flat bottom aft. This allows very low planing speeds (10 knots or so in the 22), great fuel economy (4 mpg in the 22), and reduced power requirements. Most 22's have 90's, lots of 25's have 150's.

The flat bottom comes at a cost, however. You can't power through head seas like you would in a deep V and you have to slow down some over wakes. One thing I've noticed is that the speed penalty over the Whaler is not as big of a deal as I thought it would be. Since you are protected inside it is much more comfortable to slow down spend more time on the boat. In beam seas, aft quartering seas, or following seas the dory hull does great. And it's very seaworthy in all sea conditions.

It seems like most people compare these boats more with other pilothouse boats like Sea Sports, Ospreys, Parkers, etc. Compared to a Sea Ray the C-Dory is a lot different. Personally, I like the pilothouse for the above mentioned reasons, but it is also nice being able to cook and eat while being protected but still have a view through the big pilothouse windows, something that you can't do on an express cruiser. Also, I prefer outboards to stern drives and the look of the C-Dory to any Sea Ray.

Finally, cruising on either the 22 or 25 is easily doable. I spent a month on the 22 last summer and it was great, some people have spent even longer amounts of time. The 25 is even better with more amenities and space. Look through the forums to find stories of people who have cruised the boats, they are all over!
 
In addition to the qualities of each boat, I would do a little research on resale value to see which holds the steadiest. My suspicion is that a C Dory will hold its value significantly more than the Sea Ray.
 
Advantages of a C-Dory:

I'm only 1/2 kidding when I say C-Brats.

The amount of information and the "family" atmosphere is awesome. One of the many reason we bought our C-Dory last year.
 
Dauntless covered the features well! A few things I would add--it is easy to add an RV air conditioner on the roof, or window type air conditioner through the front window and you have an excellent camper--as well as a boat. These air conditioners are powered by Honda Generators.

I owned a Rinker 270 Fiesta V before the C Dories. The express cruiser, is like being in a "Cave"--not too bad for me, since I have spent most of my life in sailboats, but my wife really loves being able to see out and the protection. The Rinker got 1.6 miles a gallon and had to get up to 18 mph before planing. The C Dory 25 begins to plane in the low teens, and averaged 3 miles a gallon for the 1500 miles we ran it last summer. (most of this was at 15 to 17 knots, but some at displacement speeds).

With trim tabs and Permatrims, you can put the bow down and makes the pounding less. But you have to understand that it is a semidory--which can pound. Down wind and waves, it works very well, and last summer we were in 5 to 6 foot seas running easily at 15 knot down wind and waves. You do have to either alter the course, or slow down in rough seas. On the other hand, the Tom Cat will eat up seas up to 3 to 3.5 feet far better than the Rinker would, and the Tom Cat gets 2 to 2.2 miles a gallon at 20 mph.

Also the construction of the C Dory is excellent. There is enough glass on the bottom of the hull, so that the cored bottom is stiff and does not have the problems that some other cored boats have. But you do have to understand that you not get water into any core--either the hull or deck.

The C Dory has a glassed hull to deck joint--this essentially makes the hull and cabin one piece.

On the down side, the head may be smaller than some of the express cruisers. There is the forward berth, and dinette, but no aft bunk as many express cruisers have.

I also do not like I/O's--I have owned 4 of them though the years, and had problems with each one. The outboard will run in shoal water (not good to run the I/O with the leg tilted up). the outboard is easier to service, and the outboard can be raised completely out of the water.
 
Hi, there. Since you asked for advice and comments, this topic will go on for a long time, AND you'll be well served.

To start things off I did a search using the word "advantage" and found the following 3 topics, which should serve as an introduction to flat dory bottom vs v-bottom, etc. Bon Apetit.

Venture Series Boats
C-Dory vs Bayliner Trophy
Need Advice
C-25 Hull Construction
These were from the first 2 pages.

Read those, watch the posts here, and do your own search.

Boris
 
Scott,

Welcome. Your question:
"What are the advantages (and disadvantages) of a cruiser like the 25 C-Dory over other cruisers like a Sea Ray 25 Sundancer?"

...sounds like a direct invitation to SeaWolf Joe to jump in here and help out. I believe he has the Sundancer and he certainly knows about the CD-25.

You will find a wealth of information here, and everyone has an opinion, however, your boat will be yours, and you will have to decide what compromises you are willing to make, because every boat is a compromise. You have certainly come to where there is a wealth of knowledge and in some folk opinion the best small boat forum available. Good luck in your search.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
I don't own a C-Dory....yet....but do own and love pilothouse boats. The perspective I offer is that I went through three express cruiser boats, like the SeaRay, before we realized we hated living in a shoe with canvas all around.

I'd take a 20 year old C-Dory over any new 25' express cruiser!

-Greg
 
sapple":13vcgfw3 said:
Can the dinette on the 25 be converted to a reasonably comfortable bunk?

Yes, depending on the size of the person doing the sleeping. The table drops down and you use the cushions from the seatbacks to make a bunk.

Another advantage of C-Dory ownership not yet discussed: women find you more desirable and other men with lesser taste in boats envy you. :wink: While that advantage is partially tongue-in-cheek, the answers provided above are all the things that led most of us to the C-Dory.

Good luck with your search.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
sapple-

You're getting a lot of good advice, so I'll just try to add my two cents w/o writing another treatise.

I have both a CD-22 and a Sea Ray 265 Sedan Cruiser, and they're very different boats, but both of high quality.

The C-Dory is very functional, spartan, and holds it's resale value much better than a Sea Ray.

Since the C-D is outboard powered, you can replace the engine and drive train easily and simply for about $7-8k for a 22 and $ 10-12k for a 25. The engine and outdrive on a Sea Ray are $4.5-6k each, and installation/replacement time will add $1000 or so to the cost. (Rough estimates.)

The outdrive (Mercruiser, since Brusnwick owns both Sea Ray and Mercury), is suitable for trailered boats, but prone to problems when moored in water, particularly salt water. If the aluminum casings are immersed constantly, then corrosion takes its toll. They're hard to keep marine growths off of too, unlike an outboard that can be tilted up out of the water. Also, the outdrive is simply a more complex design with a lot of seals and bellows units that have to be monitored and replaced periodically.

I don't like the express cruiser deign, myself. It is OK on a 35 foot boat where the down below area becomes reasonably large, but on a boat under 30 feet, it is a real pain. The express cruiser, with it's slick "European" like styling, places the helm down at the somewhat raised cockpit level, then limits the forward cabin's height to get style and visibility. The results are that the forward cabin has a low roof, limiting also the size of the side windows and allowing no forward windows, giving you a "Cave" effect, and thus a feeling of being in a different world than if you were outside in the open air. I don't like it!

I have a sedan cruiser, which has a flying bridge up top, full height windows all around in the cabin, and generates an open air effect for those in the cabin. It then also generates a full cockpit behind the cabin for even more room, and this later area can be enclosed with canvas to make an additional weather protected area. (This can also be done with canvas on C-Dorys.)

Another bad effect of the express cruiser design is that the middle of the boat, middle height helm station, limits what you can have below it. It's too short to stand up in, and is usually made into a sleeping area. Many folks just use this area for storage of bags, suitcases, etc.

Once you go for an express cruiser design in this size boat, you get:

1. v-berth forward, 2. galley/dinnette in the middle, 3. head to the rear on one side, companionway to the other side, 4. mid-height helm station above/tight sleeping quarters below, 5. raised cockpit to the rear (because of the motor below).

Those are the design limitations of the express cruiser. Sea Ray quality is first class. The boat is much more finished than a C-Dory, with full headliners, upholstered walls and all interior flat surfaces dressed up and padded like a car, full carpeting, draperies, Venetian blinds, slick, luxurious lighting, nice teak trim, and every detail brought up to a very high standard. Sea Ray has built huge numbers of boats for years (until the slump), and knows how to engineer and build a boat without going through the trial-and-error process with the consumer holding the (parts/problems) bag. The wring and plumbing in a Sea Ray are first class, and show quality concern, as does the whole boat.

The other side of this coin is that a Sea Ray is so finished that it's a challenge to figure out how to run new wiring around the boat or make any personal modifications to fit your own needs. Imagine trying to run some new wiring or make some personal modifications in your new Buick sedan (like from back when we had big, luxurious cars).

These are two very different boats. The C-Dory will not only hold it's value better, but will be easier on your wallet at the gas pump. The CD-25 will get about 3 mpg (realistic, not claimed), and the Sea Ray 25 maybe 2, depending on the the boat size and engine configuration. I have twin V-6's that can chew up 8-10 gph each at cruise speeds of 20-28 mph, and that'll yield up to about 1.5 mpg if you're lucky! At the gas prices we had on the lake last year ($4.75/gallon), the 120 gallon tank held $570 worth of gas, and the use of 100 gallons of it could get you up to 150 miles. As a result, we do a lot of displacement speed cruising, at about 5-7 mph, a technique also familiar to C-Dory owners and Ranger Tug folks as well. A Sea Ray 25 should have a single V-8, probably a big block, with a Bravo outdrive.

The big, deep v boat also rides much different than the C-Dory. While the C-Dory must slow down and basically ride over the waves and larger chop, the Sea Ray both cuts through and crushes the smaller stuff, and has an at least a somewhat cushioned ride through the larger waves.

I like the Sea Ray for slow cruising and staying aboard. It's four times as large inside as my CD-22, though the CD-25 and Sea Ray Express Cruiser may be about equal, but you'd best go to a boat show or somewhere you could go back and forth from boat to boat, to really get a feel for the differences. You also ought to really spend some time aboard each boat and even a night or two aboard, if possible, to get a real feel for each boat. Wefings, in Florida, has a CD-25 that they'll charter to you if you're interested. They might even be able to arrange a Sea Ray visit of some sorts.

The Sea Ray may also require a larger tow vehicle, depending on the exact model you consider, as they are generally heavier than the equivalent length C-Dory.

Have to close for now!

Good Luck!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
sapple":ogdc4rsb said:
Can the 25 be towed safely with a Toyota Tundra, 2WD, V8, with a tow package?

Yes, for most average, reasonably short, and fairly flat trips.

For long range, mountainous, very hot, or otherwise difficult situations, many folks have concluded that a 3/4 ton truck has more margin to spare.

And it's not just towing power and cooling capacity, but also, and more importantly, braking and stopping power. You can always just slow down and climb a little slower, but if you can't stop in time during an emergency.......

Also for launching in steep, muddy, or unpaved ramp areas, the added traction of 4WD is a real advantage and adds peace of mind.

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Advantages have all been covered! I was going to emphasize the engine option of the C-Dory - outboard instead of I/O. I owned a Bayliner with a Merc and I would never again own any I/O.

In short....resale, accessibility by way of simple interior (if you opt for the classic series), customization options, weight, and pilot house design. Many opt for aft canvas but I was looking for a boat that would not require any canvas. Nothing beats the pilot house design for comfort and expanded usage options.
 
sapple":3i9zv0sz said:
Can the 25 be towed safely with a Toyota Tundra, 2WD, V8, with a tow package?

The new Tundra 2WD with 5.7L V8/6 speed auto has a towing capacity of 10500.lbseek.gif, with the 4.7L V8/5 speed auto its 8100lbs; I’d say either option will serve you well.

If your Tundra is an older model find out what its towing capacity is and throw the question to the wolves again. :D

Again, as Joe mentioned, the added traction of 4WD is a real advantage and adds peace of mind.
 
Whalers and Parkers were on my short-list as options prior to the purchase of my new 2007 25' C-Dory Cruiser. Parkers are built ~7 miles from my home. The Parker I nearly purchased was the 2530 Extended Cabin - it's a very fine boat, can address up to 500hp, 175gal fuel tank, and a solidly built vessel.

http://www.parkerboats.net/pages/boat_lineup/boat_detail.jsp?boatid=18

The primary reason I did not opt for the 2530 was because it did not fit what I "needed". I reside on the AICW. There are numerous islands where I reside - including the outer banks of NC. I don't consider my 25' Cruiser to be an off-shore vessel. I needed a near-shore vessel (deep-V bow, flat-bottom aft). The majority of my cruising will not require a full bottom deep-V. I can take it off-shore (being mindful of seas), but it's not where I'll spend the majority of my time. In comparison (aside from twice the fuel capacity and over twice the capacity for outboard HP), the 25' Cruiser has a narrower beam (but not terribly significant), the 2530 is likened more to a fishing vessel (good space inside the cabin), the C-Dory (IMO) offers more leisurely accomodations inside the cabin, and the price of the 25' Cruiser was considerably less. The 2530 retails for ~$93K with comparable equipment. I don't plan to beat the 25' Cruiser, if that were the case, I would have opted for a different vessel (full deep-V hull). Therefore, considering how I plan to use the vessel, the 25' Cruiser works well for me.

BTW, if any of the C-Brats who attended the NC Gathering review the Parker Boats link (above), that is the Dock House Restaurant (e.g. Beaufort Marina) in downtown Beaufort where the picture was taken.
 
sapple":3el7umi8 said:
My Tundra is an 03. Its towing capacity is 7300 lbs. Do trailers for 22 and/or 25 C-Dorys typically have brakes?
Yes - what type of brakes you get depends on the specific choice you make. You can get trailers with drum surge brakes to electric over hydraulic disc brakes.
 
If you are towing a C D 25 you would want disc brakes on both axles. Kodiak disc brakes are generally accepted to be one of the best. Electric over hydraulic give better control than surge brakes.

As for the Tundra--I looked up the specs on them, since they are on "sale" locally, with 0% financing for 72 months...but the truck weight is about 5100 lbs--I tow with a Ford Excursion which weighs 7700 lbs. The C Dory 25 on the trailer weight is from 6500 to 7500 lbs. You would be right at the top end of your towing capacity.

I would recommend a weight distribution hitch with a lighter truck. (Those of us who have used them with the heavier boats find that they tow better). Many trucks require weight distribution hitches if the weight of the trailer is over XXXX (often 5,000 lbs)
 
Kodiak Disc Brakes - Standard All Tidewater Trailers
CIMG0540.thumb.jpg

Tidewater Trailer - Standard Kodiak Disc Anti-Surge
CIMG0539.thumb.jpg

Tidewater Trailer - View: Under the boat, resting on trailer, cover attached
CIMG0541.thumb.jpg

View of ANTIBODY (25' Cruiser) on Tidewater Trailer
CIMG0414resized.thumb.jpg

(Tidewater Trailer Model# TRT5500D2)
40 Rollers, Kodiak Hydraulic Disc Brakes, All Stainless Steel Piston, High visibility LED Low Profile Taillight and 3 Bar
Light LED's.
http://www.tidewatertrailers.com/page5.html

Link to the directory of C-Brat Photos of the above pictures:
http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?...lery&file=index&include=view_album.php&page=1

My personal preference is the roller-bed trailer. Tidewater makes the same trailer in the pivot-bunk. I think my trailer ran ~$3500 + change.
 
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