Advice on anchor line diameter
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Jim
Why 5/8ths? 3/8 three strand is plenty for a 22. Also we started out with 100 feet of chain went down to 30 feet and thinking of dropping more. With our 22 pound anchor that chain without windlass and a lot of anchoring was awful hard on the back. Maybe you will but kind of doubt you will be anchoring in any more precarious places than we have. Would suggest if you if you want to fill up your anchor locker do it with more length we have 500 feet and another 300 feet ready to go we keep in the cockpit. You never know when that extra length might come in handy if you loose propulsion and are being blown to shore.
Jay
Why 5/8ths? 3/8 three strand is plenty for a 22. Also we started out with 100 feet of chain went down to 30 feet and thinking of dropping more. With our 22 pound anchor that chain without windlass and a lot of anchoring was awful hard on the back. Maybe you will but kind of doubt you will be anchoring in any more precarious places than we have. Would suggest if you if you want to fill up your anchor locker do it with more length we have 500 feet and another 300 feet ready to go we keep in the cockpit. You never know when that extra length might come in handy if you loose propulsion and are being blown to shore.
Jay
Jim
Got to thinking you might want the 5/8ths to make it easier on the hands when pulling, if so, thats a good point. I have strong hands and a weak back so prefer it thinner and longer. Sorry can't answer how much 5/8ths will fit. Know when you first put it in only about half as much will fit as later when it gets wet and used a few times.
Jay
Got to thinking you might want the 5/8ths to make it easier on the hands when pulling, if so, thats a good point. I have strong hands and a weak back so prefer it thinner and longer. Sorry can't answer how much 5/8ths will fit. Know when you first put it in only about half as much will fit as later when it gets wet and used a few times.
Jay
matt_unique
New member
An anchor roller will help but that will be one hell of an effort to yank in all that chain and line with anchor. I will be using 1/2" line on my Tomcat (with windlass). 5/8 will be more than you need, but certainly the easiest to grasp by hand (relative to 3/8" or 1/2").
That's right Jay. I was thinking 5/8 as it will be easier to pull than smaller diameter.
You say 500' of 3/8" fits in your locker?
BTW, I just checked out a few of your photos from AK - looked like you had a great trip. I just towed my c-dory from Haines to Anchorage and man do I wish I had that canvas bow protector on the Turnstone -- there are a hundred little nicks and dings on our brand new boat!
How did the canvas work?
Jim
You say 500' of 3/8" fits in your locker?
BTW, I just checked out a few of your photos from AK - looked like you had a great trip. I just towed my c-dory from Haines to Anchorage and man do I wish I had that canvas bow protector on the Turnstone -- there are a hundred little nicks and dings on our brand new boat!
How did the canvas work?
Jim
Jim-
Here's what 300 feet of 1/2" line plus 15 feet of 1/4" chain looked like in Tyboo Mike's CD-22 Cruiser:
You could go up to 9/16" or possibly 5/8" by raising the rear wall of the locker.
If you expand the locker, I'd suggest you use a stainless piano type hinge to connect the additional upper panel to extend the rear wall upward.
Each 1/8 inch in rope diameter makes a signifigant increase of the rope characteristics, including the handelability, the weight, and the space taken up in the locker.
I'd suggest you try the 1/2" and 9/16" out against the 5/8' in the store to see how they fit your hands. I have 1/2" on my CD-22 and 5/8" on my Sea Ray, and either fits my hands fine for manual work, although I have windlasses on both boats.
300 feet of rode is a lot to stuff down a deck pipe. A lot of Alaskans just use a plastic box or tub fastened up on the foredeck as a anchor rode storage locker. Much easier to load the rode into as it comes in.
Good Luck with your project!
Joe.
Here's what 300 feet of 1/2" line plus 15 feet of 1/4" chain looked like in Tyboo Mike's CD-22 Cruiser:
You could go up to 9/16" or possibly 5/8" by raising the rear wall of the locker.
If you expand the locker, I'd suggest you use a stainless piano type hinge to connect the additional upper panel to extend the rear wall upward.
Each 1/8 inch in rope diameter makes a signifigant increase of the rope characteristics, including the handelability, the weight, and the space taken up in the locker.
I'd suggest you try the 1/2" and 9/16" out against the 5/8' in the store to see how they fit your hands. I have 1/2" on my CD-22 and 5/8" on my Sea Ray, and either fits my hands fine for manual work, although I have windlasses on both boats.
300 feet of rode is a lot to stuff down a deck pipe. A lot of Alaskans just use a plastic box or tub fastened up on the foredeck as a anchor rode storage locker. Much easier to load the rode into as it comes in.
Good Luck with your project!
Joe.
:beerJim
Yes it fits, but it was way overstuffed at the start. Originally purchased 600' and it was pretty much full at 350' went ahead and stuffed the 500' in and after using several times it fits in there ok.
Did the canvas protector thing after our first trip north when I suffered the same type dings as you. It protects well for the dings but the cure was worse than the disease. Was installed by a dealer in Billings, Mt and He used snap rivets through the fiberglass. Never has leaked but sure wouldn't do the same now. There has to be some type of rv car towing protector that would work that would attach to hitch or trailer reach. There was a dealer that sold just what I'am trying to describe for boats, but they went out of business.
Guess I've been lucky on the 3 strand because never have had a tangle or mess.
Jay
Yes it fits, but it was way overstuffed at the start. Originally purchased 600' and it was pretty much full at 350' went ahead and stuffed the 500' in and after using several times it fits in there ok.
Did the canvas protector thing after our first trip north when I suffered the same type dings as you. It protects well for the dings but the cure was worse than the disease. Was installed by a dealer in Billings, Mt and He used snap rivets through the fiberglass. Never has leaked but sure wouldn't do the same now. There has to be some type of rv car towing protector that would work that would attach to hitch or trailer reach. There was a dealer that sold just what I'am trying to describe for boats, but they went out of business.
Guess I've been lucky on the 3 strand because never have had a tangle or mess.
Jay
Jim-
tsturm's suggestion of a double braid line is a good one!
I don't think double braid will be as sensitive to twisting and looping as 3-strand.
However, it will not feel as comfortable and have as good a grip with your hands as the twisted 3-strand, which gives a nice, comfortable, non-slip feel.
Every decision is a bunch of trade offs!
Think it through rationally, then use your intuition!
Joe.
tsturm's suggestion of a double braid line is a good one!
I don't think double braid will be as sensitive to twisting and looping as 3-strand.
However, it will not feel as comfortable and have as good a grip with your hands as the twisted 3-strand, which gives a nice, comfortable, non-slip feel.
Every decision is a bunch of trade offs!
Think it through rationally, then use your intuition!
Joe.
Jack in Alaska
New member
I use a 600' 3/8" 3 strand nylon line, 20' of 3/8" chain and a 22 # Bruce anchor. I pull it with a buoy and slip ring and store all of it in a RubberMaid 16" high tub on the back deck. The tub lid has a plywood insert and is used as a bait cutting board. It all works well.
The anchor locker on a 22' is a joke IMHO.
The anchor locker on a 22' is a joke IMHO.
The three strand nylon is the best to ensure some stretching to protect the hardware from jerks, etc.. Double braid does not stretch much, that's why it's best for sail running gear, but it will be much harder on your gear and the ride at anchor than three strand.
1/2 inch three strand nylon is pretty easy on the hands and does not knot up much if you let it free fall to place instead of trying to wind it some way other than what it likes to lay passively. Also, drop the anchor slowly, or drop a bit and wait, off and on in order to let any rotation work it's way out of the line. When you drop an anchor rapidly, it tends to "fly" and twist, rotate, etc.. just letting it hang a few seconds now and then lets the rotations work out, both on weighing and laying anchor.
John
1/2 inch three strand nylon is pretty easy on the hands and does not knot up much if you let it free fall to place instead of trying to wind it some way other than what it likes to lay passively. Also, drop the anchor slowly, or drop a bit and wait, off and on in order to let any rotation work it's way out of the line. When you drop an anchor rapidly, it tends to "fly" and twist, rotate, etc.. just letting it hang a few seconds now and then lets the rotations work out, both on weighing and laying anchor.
John
On the Columbia River we deal with strong currents 4 - 8 knts. and frequent anchor pulling and repositioning to fish different areas. When the water is 60 feet deep and the tide is running too, it is easy to use every bit of 250-300 ft. of anchor line attached to a sand//rake type anchor (typical Danforths will not hold) this on boats in the 3,400 lb. range. The rope is typically tied to the bottom of the anchor and zip tied along the shaft.... this allows you to pull hard with buoy/engines and break them to free stuck anchor. If a ship, barge or log is coming at you, you don't have the time to scratch your head and figure things out over time. If you want to fish the deeper sturgeon holes (80-100 ft.), more length is needed. Everyone here uses the sliding buoy system as an anchor puller (about $70) using the engines to lift the anchor, but believe me, you still use your hands and back pulling in that buoy and anchor and all of that rode by your third or fourth pull in a day. 275 ft. of 5/8" braided line will fit in a plastic milk crate. With all of the algae, mud and debris, (and salt//corrosion), that typically affixes to a line, I wouldn't want it stored right next to my bed, but rather on deck where it can dry out. In a really strong current (like right below Bonneville Dam in the Columbia River Gorge) we found that the increased drag of a 5/8" line lessened anchor holding ability considerably compared to a 3/8" line. 5-10 ft. is typical chain length if used, but since rivers are generally a consistent, straight downstream pull, the rake type anchor holds well without them since your boat is not spinning around the hook. One of my main reservations about getting a C-Dory is the ability to work rapidly with anchoring and pulling it, all from the hatch, as I potentially drift downstream to a hogline of boats directly downstream. Good luck. C.W.
Satisfaction,
I would think an anchor windlass would be a great help to you in that situation. Or, you could put a draw back line, maybe even with pulley or ring, to draw the anchor line alongside the cockpit for handling. 'Sounds like anything regarding an anchor would be tough in your fishing situations!
Thanks for posting those great fishing pics,
John
I would think an anchor windlass would be a great help to you in that situation. Or, you could put a draw back line, maybe even with pulley or ring, to draw the anchor line alongside the cockpit for handling. 'Sounds like anything regarding an anchor would be tough in your fishing situations!
Thanks for posting those great fishing pics,
John
You might consider 8 plait anchor line, it is more expensive but takes up less space as it lays loose and doesn't kink or tangle. It works great with a windlass but should be easier on your hands if you go manual. I got mine on line at Defender Marine, sometimes they have specials.
marvin4239
New member
The best addition I did was and anchor windless. Well worth every penny! If you are anchoring in deep water I'd consider a free fall model.
Stretch is measured at a specific load--often a % of safe working load.
Nylon 3 strand has 16% stretch at 30% SWL, Double braid nylon has 6.5% stretch at 30% SWL--way too much stretch to be used in the running rigging in sailboats. Dacron Braid has 2.4% stretch and there are muiltiple low stretch braids (which are used in sailboats for running rigging, which has 1% or less stretch).
For a 22, I would not go over 1/2" rode. 1/2" is fine for pulling in. We used 5/8" in 46 to 60 footers. We also used 3/8" double braid for anchor rode on our stern anchor and kedge anchor for over 30 years--and although it is slightly harder on the hands--it works fine--even on 30 to 45 foot boats. The slightly lower stretch can be compensated for by the use of a snubber. A 7/16" double braid nylon might be a good compromise for size and ease of handling. 5/8" can be too bulky and stiff to use comfortably.
Nylon 3 strand has 16% stretch at 30% SWL, Double braid nylon has 6.5% stretch at 30% SWL--way too much stretch to be used in the running rigging in sailboats. Dacron Braid has 2.4% stretch and there are muiltiple low stretch braids (which are used in sailboats for running rigging, which has 1% or less stretch).
For a 22, I would not go over 1/2" rode. 1/2" is fine for pulling in. We used 5/8" in 46 to 60 footers. We also used 3/8" double braid for anchor rode on our stern anchor and kedge anchor for over 30 years--and although it is slightly harder on the hands--it works fine--even on 30 to 45 foot boats. The slightly lower stretch can be compensated for by the use of a snubber. A 7/16" double braid nylon might be a good compromise for size and ease of handling. 5/8" can be too bulky and stiff to use comfortably.
drjohn & marvin, thanks for the comments. I would definitely be interested in a free fall or quick drop type of windlass... brand name and model suggestions? One caveat with the windlass is it is electric. It is not uncommon for me to run a mere mile or two or less to where I fish from where my covered slip is in the marina. I then anchor and sometimes fish four to six hours with the stereo playing, possibly lights on in pre dawn. maybe a pump or two from the bilge. This draws down the batteries without adequate run time to recharge them. Maybe not on one trip, but after three such trips, cranking the big block V-8 used to be iffy. I remedied this by putting a solar panel charger on the roof I got from Cabelas (with overcharge protector) [at about $125]. An electric windlass (on a future C-Dory for me) would compound the draw whereas a buoy anchor puller is run from the boat's momentum. Why is it I haven't seen the C-Brats discussing solar chargers much? Maybe I'm still too new to know what's been discussed.
Also, wonderful though the Wallas stoves seem to be, again, that fan that runs is another electric draw.... whereas my $22 propane stove, heats fine without electricity. How many pulls with your windlass in 60 ft. of water with 250 ft. of line can your pair of batteries handle and still crank the outboards reliably? If the batteries are dead, can you wrap a pull cord around the top of a Honda or Suzuki or Yamaha 50 or 90 and crank it by hand like I could my old Merc 65 or current Yamaha 9.9 4 strk kicker? These are crucial considerations I have to make as well as general quick and easy anchoring access. Spoiled by a walk through windshield, C.W.
Also, wonderful though the Wallas stoves seem to be, again, that fan that runs is another electric draw.... whereas my $22 propane stove, heats fine without electricity. How many pulls with your windlass in 60 ft. of water with 250 ft. of line can your pair of batteries handle and still crank the outboards reliably? If the batteries are dead, can you wrap a pull cord around the top of a Honda or Suzuki or Yamaha 50 or 90 and crank it by hand like I could my old Merc 65 or current Yamaha 9.9 4 strk kicker? These are crucial considerations I have to make as well as general quick and easy anchoring access. Spoiled by a walk through windshield, C.W.
Solar panels have been used mainly by long term cruisers such as Brent and Dixie on Discovery. Brent has a large rooftop array of collectors. Most of the higer powered outboards put out 40 plus amps charging, so they can recharge for occasional anchor windlass use.
You could get a small Yamaha or Honda generator, too... Of course manual recovery of the anchor will keep you in great shape!
You do have a unique situation there.
John
You could get a small Yamaha or Honda generator, too... Of course manual recovery of the anchor will keep you in great shape!
You do have a unique situation there.
John
marvin4239
New member
CW I have a Lewmar 700 windlass and I'm very happy with albiet this is the first windlass I have every had so I don't have much to compare it to. As far as the batteries I have one starting battery in the starboard lazarette and two group 24 house batteries which are mounted in the port lazarette. I usually anchor in fairly shallow water not putting out any more than maybe 75 feet of rode. My windlass is not a free fall (Lewmar makes a freefall model) so it uses power going and coming. I've raised and lowered it maybe 1/2 dozen times in less than and hour jockeying around to get on a fishing spot and not noticed any excessive battery drain. When my boat is in the boat house it's plugged into shore power which keeps the batteries charged through the factory installed on board charger (Guest). My Suzuki 90 seems to charge the batteries rather quickly. Usually when I start I have my selector switch on the start battery and after running a while I switch to house batteries. For me solar chargers (boat mounted) aren't cost effective and I have a covered boat house that wouldn't allow charging.
marvin4239
New member
I forgot to mention my Mercury 50 has provisions for starting with a rope which I have done many times. It starts very easy. It's on my Carolina Skiff and I run the batteries down rather frequently with the trolling motor. The Honda 50 I had also had provisions to rope start it but I never had to. I suspect it wouldn't have been as easy as the Mercury as it was 3 cylinder carburated and the Mercury is 4 cylinder EFI. The Suzuki 90 I now have doesn't have provisions for rope starting that I'm aware of.