Anchor windlass and kicker and CD 22

T

tparrent

New member
A little excitement yesterday while manually hauling my all chain rode in strong winds convinced me that a windlass is my solo cruising future.

The local marine technician came by today to give me an estimate. The paramedics arrived shortly thereafter to resuscitate me. $3,000! The tech explained that a large part of the cost was in the wiring. $750 to bring the necessary two wires all the way back to the batteries in the stern (He gave me a funny look when I asked if he could use just one wire. These techs think they know everything.)

Is that estimate in line with your experience? Understand that I cannot possible do the work myself (see note on "one wire").

Also, he asked if I was going to use the existing batteries (I have two new ones) and I said yes. Typically I use one battery as a house battery at night and then start with both of them. Any reason not to hook the windlass in to them?

Finally, I asked how they do the installation in terms of sealing the holes. He said they would use (I think) 4000 which "has adhesive and sealing properties." I asked about overdrilling and epoxying and he said "that's not necessary." What think you?

I also asked about mounting a 5HP Honda kicker. The boat has trim tabs and a Honda 90 so there is not a lot of space back there. My usual solution would be to buy a bigger boat but I LOVE THIS BOAT! Have any of you been able to squeeze a 5 HP in between the main engine and the trim tabs?

I want to add a kicker as a safety device both as a "get me home" when I am traveling in remote places and as a "sacrificial" engine (well, prop really) when I go places I shouldn't such as timber stands and weed beds.

Would the biggest Torqueedo serve either purpose? Not sure how far I could push the boat with a little electric.

Thanks for your suggestions - and I'm sure I'll be back soon with more questions :)
 
Seems to me that you'd better shop around for a new marine service shop/tech. Running two wires 16 feet should cost about 50 bucks maximum as it should take him about half an hour. The wires will cost 10 to 20 bucks for large current carrying capacity.

I think you are being HAD by this particular shop. This would be a good time for you to do some reading on marine wiring and buy a few tools. The whole job for a windlass should add up to no more than 4 technician hours at 100 bucks and hour maximum, and the cost of the windlass and wiring and a switch. You may have to change the size and type of your rode and chain. I'd definitely change the service guy out for a different model.

Don't know about the kicker, but I can tell you that with a little 5hp tohatsu bought off the internet new and delivered you'll have less than 1500 in the motor and you can put more fuel in it when it runs out. The Torquedo is more useful on a sailboat for getting to and from the dock. Or on a dinghy, BUT it is expensive and you have to figure out how to keep it charged.
 
Actually Harry said it correctly 4 tech hours at 100 an hour for a total of $400. I agree his pricing is way out of line, profit is one thing , rip off is another.
 
I bought a Torqueedo and now regret it. Would listen to the voice of experience (the folks I am cruising the Broughtons with now) and would join all of them in buying a 2 hp Honda. May still do so eventually.

Warren
 
I have done the electric formula thing in my head and in reality a lot over time and have found a decent 12 or 24 volt trolling motor to make more sense, more of the time than buying a torqeedo. The price, battery price, and charging requirments put the torqueedo into a niche most people never truely find.

I have found boaters who are successful using these little motors for dinghy power and for backup power on boats up to 20+ft. Please note, the battery requirements may mean that it will only get you a few miles but for many boaters needs, that is enough to get you out of trouble or keep you away from it long enough for other help to arrive.
 
Here's what i would do. Call E.Q. marine here on the west coast and see what he would charge. He's to far to do the work but you will get a fair price for the work and have a standard to go on. I would also ask anyone you use for a itemized break down of cost for the parts.
you need to read up and find out what size wire needs to be used to make that long of a run. The wire alone is going to cost a lot more then 20 bucks.

Anyone that tells you its not necessary to over drill and fill a thru bolted hole should not be allowed to touch your boat. I know that a lot of shops do not do it unless you demand it but most "boat shops" ( see bass boats) don't know sh*t any how.

if the price quoted included the windlass then its not far off.
 
Since you are from the East Coast why not call Mobile East Marine. www.mobileeastmarine.com They know C-Dory's and have been spoken well of by a number of people who frequent this site. The windless (Lewmar 700H $892.00 from Defender Marine) I wouldn't think needs to have over sized holes and be epoxy filled. Just sealed well and bedded in 3M 4200 sealer or in any acceptable bedding material. I would ask for a backing plate under the windless. The motor bolts holes should be drilled undercut, epoxied and redrilled so as to avoid any chance of transom rot. Les at EQ Marine is a great but a little out of your way. I think you will want to have a self launching roller so you can drop the hook with a flip of the switch. I use a large carabineer type clip to secure the anchor to the roller while trailering. A 14 or 15 # Delta anchor with 20' of chain and 200 feet of 1/2" rode will cost around 350 dollars. Make sure the bitter end of the rode is bolted or secured in some way to prevent the unthinkable. Mobile East can help with a price on the Honda kicker also. If you buy over the internet and can find someone to do the install with items you purchased else where you can save $ but that does not always have a happy ending. You might also consider having some bow chocks installed on both sides of the bow area if your boat is not so equipped currently. A complete spare ground tackle setup with a spare anchor, chain and rode is a good thing to have on a stormy night.
D.D.
 
I just ordered a Lewmar V700 windlass (and Raymarine S1000) from Hodges Marine Electronics. The windlass was $585 plus a few bucks for shipping. I haven't gotten any prices for installation, but I'll probably take the boat to EQ at the end of the summer for the windlass installation as well as the installation a mini jacker jack plate for a kicker.
 
Defender Marine offers a low price promise, if you find a lower delivered price in most cases they will match or beat the price. Call 800 628 8225 or email them custserv@defender.com I have no interest in this company but the are a reputable supplier and provide good service. Good Luck
D.D.
 
Before you go out and spend the bucks for a windless try using a buoy and ring to pull in your anchor. Lots of discussion on the topic and loads of information out on the web. Keep about 30 feet of your chain and use ½” line for the anchor rode. We often pull 300 feet up with a buoy in less than 20 sec. When the anchor is up you just turn the boat into it than go up on deck and pull the line in, I’ve done it single handed many times.

We were anchored up fishing in 180 feet last weekend next to a similar boat. We both decided to pull anchor about the same time, we left this guy in the dust pulling in his anchor with a windless. Also we leave the line and chain piled on deck all weekend, than feed in down the pipe later. The chain holds everything in place on top of the line, safe and stable.
 
I am sorry but you most definitely need to drill and fill with epoxy. its not so much to seal off the wood core as it is to keep the deck from being crushed. I have installed two windlass's already and a few other thru hull bolts and I am amazed at how easy it is to crush fiberglass deck and coring with a bolt and nut. the windlass comes with a backing plate but its really not enough to protect the deck.

as for the lifting ring it would depend on where you are boating. its great to use if you don't have a dozen or two sail boat or cruisers anchored around you. I have used one on the river and it works great but I am not driving from within a closed cabin by my self. I just think that in the areas that most of us anchor up in, crowed small marine parks, its better to have the control to pull your anchor straight up while your idling in one spot.
 
Most east coast cruising anchor situations are probably dealing with letting out about 50' maybe 75'of chain and rode. I'm thinking for someone single handing a boat might find a windless worth every penny. Motor running and being at the helm lifting the anchor and putting everything (anchor, rode and chain) away at the same time has it's merits. Especially if other boats are in close proximity Dropping 300' the buoy and clip on split ring is a dandy idea. Retriving it in 20 seconds seems like a tall tail. I mean going up front to the bow clipping on the buoy returning to the helm heading off at a 45 degree angle getting the anchor shank in the split ring. Then leaving the helm going back up to the bow pulling in the rode and chain coiling it all up. All that in 20 seconds. It must look like one of the those calf roping competitions in fast forward. :P
D.D.
 
Will-C":omww61ne said:
Most east coast cruising anchor situations are probably dealing with letting out about 50' maybe 75'of chain and rode. I'm thinking for someone single handing a boat might find a windless worth every penny. Motor running and being at the helm lifting the anchor and putting everything (anchor, rode and chain) away at the same time has it's merits. Especially if other boats are in close proximity Dropping 300' the buoy and clip on split ring is a dandy idea. Retriving it in 20 seconds seems like a tall tail. I mean going up front to the bow clipping on the buoy returning to the helm heading off at a 45 degree angle getting the anchor shank in the split ring. Then leaving the helm going back up to the bow pulling in the rode and chain coiling it all up. All that in 20 seconds. It must look like one of the those calf roping competitions in fast forward. :P
D.D.
Click to expand...

No tall tale, when we set the anchor we toss over the buoy and ring. When it's time to pull just backup a tad and turn to Port so you can watch the line than steer to starboard. If there are other boats near then I could see that being a problem, not a problem for us. The anchor is up in 20 sec, and then we have to pull it in; still goes pretty fast.
 
Thanks for all of the suggestions!

Couple of clarifications :

1. I almost exclusively singlehand so control of the boat is a major consideration

2. The tech told me that the wire itself would cost $750. I will certainly double check that with someone

3. I bought my 16 from Mobile East Marine and would use them for any installation in a New York second BUT I am going to be cruising in Michigan/Ontario until the snow flies

I have talked to a bunch of locals and they all say that the boat shops are overwhelmed with business this year (as are all the businesses in town). More work than in ten years. That probably explains the apparent lack of interest. Also, they told me the shops are used to working on either big, expensive boats or classic woodies. A couple quick installations on a small boat just don't show up on their radar. One guy I trust suggested I head south of the bridge to a shop that I have worked with before (Irish Boat Shop in Charlevoix) He said they are world class and are used to dealing with these size boats. My experience with them has been good so that's what I will probably do.

Thanks again!
 
No tall tale, when we set the anchor we toss over the buoy and ring. When it's time to pull just backup a tad and turn to Port so you can watch the line than steer to starboard. If there are other boats near then I could see that being a problem, not a problem for us. The anchor is up in 20 sec, and then we have to pull it in; still goes pretty fast.[/quote]


I'm lucky enough to have a a nice Lewmar up on the bow and so I don't need to use such a system for my anchor. I would also have problems motoring around an anchorage. It intrigues me that some of the spots on the web tell me this system can also be used to haul up a crab or shrimp pot. Presumably this is the clip type rather than the ring. Does anyone have any experience using it in this fashion?
 
Our ring is stainless about four or five inches in diameter with a one inch gap with both ends having about a one inch diameter ring that face each other. Just slip this large ring over the anchor rode or trap line and clip the the buoy to both smaller rings with the clip that is attached to the buoy and toss it it in and head off to port keeping the line out of the prop/s. The buoy which is heavy duty and made for this purpose is usually red and about 18" in diameter about has about a foot to 18 inches of line attached with the clip on the end. The buoy lifts the anchor or pot as the split ring slides down the rode. Once the chain or anchor shank is hanging in the split ring it's on the surface you just pull the rode chain and anchor in and coil it using a band or short rope to secure the rode to a rail. Most unclip the slip ring remove it and stow the slip ring. We used to just clip the buoy to the bow cleat.In our photo album (Narragansett Bay nested area) the bouy makes our boat look like Rudolf the red nosed Venture Maybe a bigger buoy needed for heavier traps or pots.
D.D.
 
I have used these system to pull anchor and pots and they work well if you have the room. If you are , as I said earlier, anchoring in a small harbor or bay then its a lot easier and safer to use a windlass. Its also a matter or who is doing the anchoring. Iam 46 6ft 210lbs so I have not problem going forward and pulling my anchor by hand or with a buoy. But my wife could not do it. a lot of older people could not do it. the best thing about the windlass is not having to go forward on the deck.

A side not about tilting self launching roller. I was told I needed one. I thought I needed one so I bought one. because of a poor location choose for the windlass on the 27 I could not raise the anchor with the tilt roller tilted. I ended up drilling a hole and pinning the tilt roller in place. My plan was to pop out the hatch and pull the pin when I needed to deploy the anchor. come to find out that the delta anchor I use will drop out of the roller even when the tilt is pinned in place. I have not had to unpin it yet and only had to give the anchor a little bump once to get it to deploy. so install the windlass and try your anchor out in the stock bow roller before going out to get a new tilting roller.
 
I normally use the buoy and ring to pull the anchor when I am in deep water (100 feet plus) and dealing wind and waves. The anchor comes up pretty fast and the windlass is under very little strain retrieving the line on the surface. To try the pull the anchor with the windlass and boat alone when dealing with wind, waves, and current puts a lot of stress on everything, especially come time to break the anchor free from the bottom and keep it free. Pulling the anchor with a buoy is not for the faint hearted. You have to really pay attention to where the line is so it doesn't get under the boat.

The only C-Dory I ever heard that sank (not really sink but filled with water and turned over), was a CD-25 in the Cook Inlet in 5-6 foot seas pulling anchor with a buoy and the line fouled both props with the anchor still on the bottom. The stern swung into the wind and tide, and the boat swamped in under 15 seconds.
 
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