Autopilot TC255 Needed?

J

jritsema

New member
Me again, the newbie TC255 guy. Boat is sans autopilot. Always had them on my sailboats and made sense when at 6 knots for hours. Does it make sense to have autopilot on a boat traveling at 25 MPH for 2-3 hours max. Seems that things can happen so fast at that speed that hand steering works best? Any TC owners who don't have and why? And of those who have it, how much is it used, even in open water?
Thanks for the thoughts,
Jeff
 
For a boat that travels and even fishing trips auto pilots are handy to have. We like them especially for manatee zones or other low speed piloting as on canals and other no wake areas. I'm a Garmin guy and I think they are one of the best. Make sure to get whose ever brand you decide on with a remote control. On a quartering sea they can save you a lot of wheeling around. Must have for us. Safe Travels
D.D.
 
Of course you don't have to have it but, once you start using it, you will wonder what you did without it. We have had AP on boat since purchase. It comes in very handy for a number of applications. First and foremost it is invaluable while fishing, trolling for salmon and especially when trolling for tuna. On a long run to the tuna grounds, 30 to 70 nm, it saves time and gas $ by holding boat on course when I'm distracted. This also applies when cruising on a long stretch between waypoints. My AP computer quit last year and I miss it terribly, since Simrad doesn't make that particular AP and no other computer will interphase with my system I need a whole new system, which I will get before our Alaska trip this year. A friend has the Garmin AP in his Tomcat and that seems like a very good unit.

Gene
 
"Me again, the newbie TC255 guy. Boat is sans autopilot. Always had them on my sailboats and made sense when at 6 knots for hours. Does it make sense to have autopilot on a boat traveling at 25 MPH for 2-3 hours max. Seems that things can happen so fast at that speed that hand steering works best? Any TC owners who don't have and why? And of those who have it, how much is it used, even in open water?
Thanks for the thoughts,
Jeff"
Click to expand...

Jeff,

YES, auto pilot makes sense. Though I don't have a TC-255, and rarely travel at 25 knots, it still makes sense.

I mostly use my AP at slower speeds, so I have time to enjoy the scenery, and my favorite cruising speed is about 5 knots. But, at faster speed, the AP will keep you on a straighter line, (as long as you are watching for the floaty things up front,) and the AP will make a longer ride more relaxing. If you never boat in the fog, then you may not appreciate the advantage of always going in the right direction, but in the fog at 5-6 knots, is where I love Charlie (my AP's name) the best.

I single hand mostly, so the AP allows me to photograph while running, to stand up and stretch, to stow or deploy fenders, grab my Cruising guide or answer the VHF or phone, all while moving in the right direction and watching what is directly in front of the boat and traffic.

Auto Pilot does not watch for you, and you are responsible for where your vessel is (going) at all times. What the AP does is take you to a point you have picked on a chart or pointed your boat at, ONLY. So you have to make sure the way is clear.

I would encourage you to consider it and use it, carefully.

BTW, good to see another sailor here.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

JC_Lately_SleepyC_Flat_Blue_070.thumb.jpg
 
Thanks for the replies. I am not surprised by the responses, but still appreciate them very much. AP was invaluable over many years on a sailboat.
Now I can have Beth read your responses, and hopefully, she will say " OK , dear, I understand".
 
jritsema":1z5tu34b said:
Thanks for the replies. I am not surprised by the responses, but still appreciate them very much. AP was invaluable over many years on a sailboat.
Now I can have Beth read your responses, and hopefully, she will say " OK , dear, I understand".
Click to expand...

Or let Beth do more of the driving, and the idea may become her's instead :wink:

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

JC_Lately_SleepyC_Flat_Blue_070.thumb.jpg
 
I have a TC255 with an autopilot. At high speed (>=25kt), I tend not to use it as one needs to react quickly to logs or debris in the water and we have a lot of that out here in the Pacific NW - especially early in the year and after large rains. At lower speeds, I use it all the time. It's especially useful at low speeds in the fog or at night when it difficult to steer a straight course without visual references. As I fish (A LOT), it's almost always used when fishing. It keeps a straight course while I'm trolling or can be programmed to do spirals or zig-zags or circles and I've used all of those modes at one time or another while fishing. As others have said, once you have one, you won't want to do without again.
 
I like to use my AP in both displacement and on-plane cruising. I find it less tiring and I get to enjoy the scenery and conversations more. I especially like it when encountering significant quartering headwinds or following seas.

I didn't fully realize how helpful/cool it was until I lost it on a return trip.
 
We don't have an AP yet, or even radar. Of all the TC255 owners who post here, we and one other couple may be the only ones who chose this boat as the perfect expedition quality, tow anywhere without a permit, crusing pocket yacht. We don't fish, and we don't cruise at night or in fog if we can help it so far. We never have long legs at idle speed. We're seldom out of sight of land. We're on the opposite end of the scale of challenging boating areas like Roger and Harvey, and so far we like it that way. As our skills advance we plan to try all that, except fishing which so far we don't find to be fun or cost-effective. Eileen does all displacement driving and at cruise whenever I ask or want a break. If I were incapacitated, she can run the boat. At this stage neither of us can justify the extra complexity and expense of an AP ($4k installed?). I would not use it at cruising speeds in our areas even if I had it, and we're at cruising speeds (on the lower end for MPG) 90% of engine hours, and the rest anchoring at beaches or around the marina. However, I acknowledge that 100% of experienced boaters who have an autopilot like it (or love it) and would not give it up once they have it. We would rather have the $4k in the retirement fund for now, where it will grow, as opposed to on the helm, where it will depreciate in a most depressing manner, like everything else on an expensive boat. But we love it. By far the best upgrade we did was a near-custom Marc Grove (Wefing's) Float On trailer with EOH brakes and DirecLink controller. But it took 2 years and thousands of miles and some unpleasant experiences (and $10,000) to figure that out.
I would take Harvey's comment quite seriously...if you and Beth boat together, get some serious engine hours under your belts together with each driving and it will become obvious to you both what you really need, and what you don't. The hardware/software gets better every year, so there's no downside to waiting a year or 2 for the New Best AP. Agree with Dave the Garmin suites are cool and new Reactor AP sure seems sweet. Share what you decide and why. Post some photos of your awesome ride, and outfitting is fun, enjoy..but don't be rushed!
Best,
John
 
Thanks for your feedback John. I, too, do not fish, nor need to push the limits in fog, following seas, or nighttime navigation as I did for years aboard my sailboats. Under those conditions, often single handling, AP was invaluable, as was radar. We are going to chiefly cruise with this boat and helm-share as you do, mostly destination reaches at moderate planing speeds, 3-4 hours at a stretch, max. AP would be nice but I don't doubt I can do without and probably best to test the need first. Same goes for radar for now.
By the way, are you from Michigan- transit our waters? I sail out of Muskegon.
Jeff
 
I guess I speak pretty much from a Pacific NW perspective but out here, if you don't boat in some fog, you don't boat often. Also, even on days that look really nice and that have great forecasts, fog can roll in unexpectedly. So for me, that's where the AP (and radar) become invaluable. It's not really pushing limits here, it's just normal boating. For those in the midwest, things are admittedly very different.
 
gulfcoast john":g008d7hm said:
Of all the TC255 owners who post here, we and one other couple may be the only ones who chose this boat as the perfect expedition quality, tow anywhere without a permit, crusing pocket yacht. We don't fish, and we don't cruise at night or in fog if we can help it so far. Best,
John
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Make that three owners, but I suspect there are more. My Tomcat came with radar, dual helms, and auto-pilot. Of the three options, my next boat will definitely have AP and probably dual helms.
 
Jeff:

We purchased our TC 6 years ago with auto pilot already installed, and at the time I thought it a bit superfluous, even though the seller, an old sail boat guy, assured me otherwise. But he was right, and I changed my mind within a month of ownership.

Actually, we found to our surprise that with a fast small boat like the TC, needs the AP even more than our previous, larger displacement vessels, including a Nordhavn 46.

Having the TC on AP doing 25 knots does not mean you can stop looking outside. But it does mean you can use two hands to hold a coffee cup, eat a sandwich, adjust the GPS or unfold a chart, and have the boat still track a straight line. Very handy indeed.

I would most definitely install one if not already on the boat.

Kevin Ware
 
Jeff,
For federal boat registration, MI is Mississippi.
Surely you didn't think that different agencies of the same federal govt would use the same abbreviations for the same states...how quaint.
That snide remark will probably get me audited again...but it was worth it!
PS when Florida boaters look and say, 'wow, how long did it take you to get here?' Eileen says, 'about 2 hours and 25 minutes, but we have a very fast diesel truck'. Heh heh.
Best from aboard the Navy Lodge, NAS JAX, to Hontoon tomorrow,
John
 
I often hear or read that people , who do not have auto pilots, are worried about "grabbing the wheel in time" . Modern auto pilots do not require you to turn them off to turn the wheel. the function goes by different names on different brands but at anytime you have the auto pilot engaged you can just grab the wheel and turn in and the boat will turn until you let go , then the auto pilot with reengage and go back to its heading or course. No buttons to push in that instant that you see a log.
 
Thanks for that tip Tom. That is new to me, and actually very important in this decision.
John, you should know that I work for the Fed and we have your number.
Naaaa. Just kidding. You should visit us in MI (Michigan) some time. Actually, I'm a retired "eye" guy.
This website is fun and very interactive and informative.
Jeff
 
The autopilot on Journey On is a Raytheon, 10 years old and I allow you to classify it as old or new. However, when it's in autopilot mode and I turn the wheel, the pump works like heck to prevent the boat from turning.

That is different from what Tom Elliot says, so please check. It's simpler/cheaper to build one which doesn't allow for a wheel input, so please check.

Boris
 
starcrafttom":3fc2ndap said:
I often hear or read that people , who do not have auto pilots, are worried about "grabbing the wheel in time" . Modern auto pilots do not require you to turn them off to turn the wheel. the function goes by different names on different brands but at anytime you have the auto pilot engaged you can just grab the wheel and turn in and the boat will turn until you let go , then the auto pilot with reengage and go back to its heading or course. No buttons to push in that instant that you see a log.
Click to expand...

Tom, I hope you are right, about being able to just grab the wheel and turn. that may be the case with some auto pilots, may most, but last Spring (2015) I replaced my RayMarine AP with the new EV-1, and to my knowledge, I have to turn it off, (hit the "standby" button), to control the boat with the wheel. Otherwise the wheel will spin freely on the helm, after a bit of a catch, but the boat goes where Charley (my Auto Pilot) wants it to go.

If there is a setting I can do to make it do as you describe, I would love to know because it would actually be like the cruise control on the car: (step on the gas or step on the brake.)

That would be a good feature, so be sure and check with the seller to see if it is actually there, especially if you are counting on that to be part of your AP function.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon

JC_Lately_SleepyC_Flat_Blue_070.thumb.jpg
 
I agree with Harvey and Boris. I can grab the wheel and get a little movement but the helm manually operated pump is then competing against the autopilot electronically operated pump. There's no connection between my helm and the autopilot that lets it know I've turned the wheel. E.g. it's not like cruise control on a car where hitting the brakes disengages cruise control. I need to disengage the AP to get good control from the helm. Moreover, with a Tomcat (especially at speed), even without the AP, maneuvering is not a rapid as in monohull. The cat's don't heel over when you turn so you don't get the extra advantage of tipping the hull in the water to aid with the turn. Rather the boat turns more like it's on rails. I've found that I need 2-3 times as much distance in which to turn to avoid an object in the water relative to my previous 22. That took a bit of getting used to and requires more vigilance than on a monohull (especially with a cruise speed of 1.5x the 22).
 
Garmin auto pilots have what they term Shadow Drive. It allows you take over the wheel without having to switch to standby and when you are done steering it returns to the previous heading.
D.D.
 
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