Yesterday I was filling the fresh water tank on our 25 and just let the hose run and overflow while I went into the cabin. While inside I happened to notice water coming in through holes which turned out to be the result of the rub rail screws being just deep enough to lift the inside surface up and allow water in. There was enough leakage to explain a good deal of the water I get in the the cabin when it rains, which with us living in Juneau and all, is a lot of rain. I am wondering what to do about this. Should I just dab on some 5200 during a dry spell and be done with it? Or should I plan on removing the entire rub rail and resealing everything from the outside. Warranty issue? Input please.
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CD25 H2O leakage via rub rail screw holes.
- Thread starter doc
- Start date
doc-
There have been some similar problems with a few boats before. You can probably find them with the search engine on this site using the toolbar above.
Your boat's hull has a transferrable five year hull warranty, which will still be in effect.
I don't see a dealer listed in Juneau, and the nearest one is in Anchorage, way too far to make a trip reasonable for such a problem.
What I'm going to suggest is that before you do anything, you contact the factory rrepresentative, Jeff Messmer, at the C-Dory factory <jeffmessmer@c-dory.com> or (253) 839-0222 to see what he recommends. They have delt with this problem before and know what works as a fix.
Some thoughts on the issue:
Absolute drying would have to take place to seal it from the inside or outside, of course.
Patching it on the inside would be the simplest solution, but might not work in the long run depending on the hull flex and how tightly the 3M 5200 will adhere to the inside surface of the hull. Not a good choice in my mind. Thie screws need to be sealed all along the threads that protrude into the hull material.
If removing the strip were no big deal, I'd favor that approach so that you could throughly get the 5200 (or even 4200) in to seal it screws off good. (4200 comes apart more easily, should you ever have to loosen the rub rail for replacement or for some other need).
It well might be possible to just pull the screws out, shoot sealant into the holes, re-insert the screws, and let the hydraulic pressure created by the screw replacement force sealant into the leaking area. You'd have to get it right on the amount of sealant: too much and you'd push the inside of the hull out further (and also bond the metal rub rail to the hull excessively), too little and the seal would be compromised a bit. Check each one out as you start and see that you're not overdoing it, but at the same time getting some minor amount of sealant inside through to the leaking area that can be wiped down.
I'd also consider cutting off just enough of the tips of the screws to help stop them from lifting the inside surface of the hull so much.
If I was unable to uniformly control the sealant coming in from the outside replacement of the screws, I'd also go inside and seal that surface with the same sealant.
Have you checked all along the rub rail from bow to transom on both sides of the boat for any other leaking areas?
Hope this helps!
Joe.
There have been some similar problems with a few boats before. You can probably find them with the search engine on this site using the toolbar above.
Your boat's hull has a transferrable five year hull warranty, which will still be in effect.
I don't see a dealer listed in Juneau, and the nearest one is in Anchorage, way too far to make a trip reasonable for such a problem.
What I'm going to suggest is that before you do anything, you contact the factory rrepresentative, Jeff Messmer, at the C-Dory factory <jeffmessmer@c-dory.com> or (253) 839-0222 to see what he recommends. They have delt with this problem before and know what works as a fix.
Some thoughts on the issue:
Absolute drying would have to take place to seal it from the inside or outside, of course.
Patching it on the inside would be the simplest solution, but might not work in the long run depending on the hull flex and how tightly the 3M 5200 will adhere to the inside surface of the hull. Not a good choice in my mind. Thie screws need to be sealed all along the threads that protrude into the hull material.
If removing the strip were no big deal, I'd favor that approach so that you could throughly get the 5200 (or even 4200) in to seal it screws off good. (4200 comes apart more easily, should you ever have to loosen the rub rail for replacement or for some other need).
It well might be possible to just pull the screws out, shoot sealant into the holes, re-insert the screws, and let the hydraulic pressure created by the screw replacement force sealant into the leaking area. You'd have to get it right on the amount of sealant: too much and you'd push the inside of the hull out further (and also bond the metal rub rail to the hull excessively), too little and the seal would be compromised a bit. Check each one out as you start and see that you're not overdoing it, but at the same time getting some minor amount of sealant inside through to the leaking area that can be wiped down.
I'd also consider cutting off just enough of the tips of the screws to help stop them from lifting the inside surface of the hull so much.
If I was unable to uniformly control the sealant coming in from the outside replacement of the screws, I'd also go inside and seal that surface with the same sealant.
Have you checked all along the rub rail from bow to transom on both sides of the boat for any other leaking areas?
Hope this helps!
Joe.
Alyssa Jean
New member
Steve, I had the exact same problem as have a few others. Drove me crazy until I figured out how the water was getting in. It is coming in around the head area where the top and bottom are "joined" under the rub rail just like you have figured out. The factory removed the rail far enough that they could seal the joint and then reattached the rail. I would do just what Joe suggested and call Jeff at C-Dory. There were several boats in which for some reason that area leaked. Mine was fixed and hasn't leaked since. Mine is a 2005 built in Feb.
My 2005 16' has a similar problem. Moisture appears out of nowhere, a couple inches below the rubrail and leaches down onto the v-berth, about midway along one side. So far it is miniscule. If it stays that way I will ignore it. But it might become a problem at a later date. I would guess once you try to get at the screws you would end up taking the whole rubrail off to get it right.
doc,
I have found several areas on my 22 that seeped a little water. I considered it a very minor problem since they were right out in the open. I didn't bother to call the factory but I can tell you how I dealt with them. I bought a small tube of white silicone caulk and dabbed a little on each area from the inside. I treated 3 of the little "pimples" I knew to be leaking. Haven't had another problem since. The 25 may be different but on my 22 I would guess these little raised areas are the back side of a large rivet which joins the top deck/cabin to the hull. It appears that each one was given a little smear of gel coat after they were bonded together and a few places didn't seal completely. Any water running down the outside of the boat will seep into the rubrail and seep through any rivets/screws that have not been totally sealed. It would never be under any pressure of any kind and I can't see why a little dab of white silicone wouldn't solve your problem. I too am a long way from the factory or a dealer and always opt to fix minor things myself. Good luck and let us know what you decide.
I have found several areas on my 22 that seeped a little water. I considered it a very minor problem since they were right out in the open. I didn't bother to call the factory but I can tell you how I dealt with them. I bought a small tube of white silicone caulk and dabbed a little on each area from the inside. I treated 3 of the little "pimples" I knew to be leaking. Haven't had another problem since. The 25 may be different but on my 22 I would guess these little raised areas are the back side of a large rivet which joins the top deck/cabin to the hull. It appears that each one was given a little smear of gel coat after they were bonded together and a few places didn't seal completely. Any water running down the outside of the boat will seep into the rubrail and seep through any rivets/screws that have not been totally sealed. It would never be under any pressure of any kind and I can't see why a little dab of white silicone wouldn't solve your problem. I too am a long way from the factory or a dealer and always opt to fix minor things myself. Good luck and let us know what you decide.
While this may not apply to all leaks, I have to share my experience using expandable, hydraulic cement type sealants.
In dentistry there is a temporary emergency filling material in a tube or jar called "CAVIT". It cannot be used in all teeth since it expands. I bought an old house two decades ago with a cracked, leaking cement/plaster swimming pool. I had it resealed and replastered, but the cracks kept re appearing.
Out of desparation, I dived down and wiped some Cavit into the cracks, and the leaks stopped for 12 years!!! I hear they sell a temporary tooth filling at the discount stores and wonder if it is like Cavit. Maybe some of you on this site know where to find a hydraulic cement like Cavit. If not, ask your dentist if he could get you a jar or small tube. Hydraulic cements are kind of like plaster that is drawn toward moisture where it sets up. I think something like that is perfect for those tiny leaks around hardware screws, bolts, etc..
John
In dentistry there is a temporary emergency filling material in a tube or jar called "CAVIT". It cannot be used in all teeth since it expands. I bought an old house two decades ago with a cracked, leaking cement/plaster swimming pool. I had it resealed and replastered, but the cracks kept re appearing.
Out of desparation, I dived down and wiped some Cavit into the cracks, and the leaks stopped for 12 years!!! I hear they sell a temporary tooth filling at the discount stores and wonder if it is like Cavit. Maybe some of you on this site know where to find a hydraulic cement like Cavit. If not, ask your dentist if he could get you a jar or small tube. Hydraulic cements are kind of like plaster that is drawn toward moisture where it sets up. I think something like that is perfect for those tiny leaks around hardware screws, bolts, etc..
John
Sam Walker
New member
Having never owned a C-Dory :amgry , I might not have the concept right or I may be talking out of school here :crook , but here is my question. If these leaks are not dryed and sealed properly from the exterior, isn't there a possibility of water getting into the Balsa core and causing permanent damage to the hull? :disgust
Sam,
The entire hull is not cored, only the bottom, cabin top, bulkheads, and decks. The remainder or the hull is a single skin layup.
The location of these leaks is where the deck overlaps and is bonded to the hull under the rub rail. The seam is actually fiberglassed together on the inside and then the rub rail is rivetted or screwed to the hull over the seam.
The entire hull is not cored, only the bottom, cabin top, bulkheads, and decks. The remainder or the hull is a single skin layup.
The location of these leaks is where the deck overlaps and is bonded to the hull under the rub rail. The seam is actually fiberglassed together on the inside and then the rub rail is rivetted or screwed to the hull over the seam.
Re: Balsa core hull.... It is my understanding that the balsa cubes bonded into the hull are oriented on "end grain" so that even a leak into the balsa cored area is limited in spreading. If the wood were placed so that the grain ran parallel to the hull surface, moisture could follow the wood fibers over broad areas. John
Sam Walker
New member
Thanks for the input on my question. For those who have leaks, at least they do not have to worry about the bolsa issue. :?