Che"mistery"? on my camperback

R

Ramon Sr

New member
In 2009, when I bought my 22 CD cruiser, I bought a camperback from King Marine. Even before taking the boat out for the first time I sprayed the bimini with 303. I cannot recall exactly when, it could have been the first time out, the bimini started to show faded white spots all over. Later, pin holes began to appear. The sides are in perfect condition. I called King Marine and was told to send it in and that they would replace it for $500. Well, I never did a thing and decided I would take the loss.

The bimini continued to deteriorate, so this winter I had a local canvas maker redo it. He took the old one apart so he could use it as a pattern to construct the new one. When received, I proceeded to open it in the garage and checked the fit. It was fine and I was proud of my new bimini at an additional cost of $700. This time, I did not use any sprays...nothing. I even threw the cover boot in the washing machine to make sure there was not a trace of the 303. I wrapped the new bimini around the SS frame and covered it with the boot. It sat in the heated garage the rest of the winter.

Two weeks ago, I opened the bimini during our first outing this year to find out it looked like the old one...faded spots and pin size holes. I am puzzled and frustrated. I called Sunbrella this morning and was told to take it to the vendor. The vendor in turn would take to whomever they bought the fabric from and eventually Sunbrella would inspect it. I will visit the shop today.

Has anyone had a similar experience? Any advise would help! :sad
 
I had problems with the first one it look like it had battery acid spilled on it after I brought the boat home from Seattle. They made me a new one. I don't trailer with the canvas on anymore and it still looks like new. I think if you want to trailer with it on then I would tie the boot with some rope so it can't flap or move going down the road.
 
Ramone,
Our camperback is made of Sunbrella it was made in 2009 and stays up for sometimes for a month at a time on trips to Florida. Ours has zippers so the top can be removed from the frame which I'm sure they all have. We have noticed some very small pin holes that seem show light but no leaks in hard rain yet. Ours is dark blue and we have not seen any spots yet. I have never sprayed it with anything. Because we primarily use our boat in salt water we wash the top occasionally with warm water and a mild dish detergent something I wash the cars, boat and trailer with usually Dawn. The side panels I spray with water and towel dry the window portions. I store the top of the camper back folded separate from the stainless steel frame. The side curtains I have had three canvas bags made for the right and left side and rear panel. I wrap the side and rear panels with towels around the swim noddle thingies only after I am sure they have dried completely. Then they go into the bags but never wet and we keep them rolled up in the canvas bags in our attic till the next trip. So far so good. Maybe there are some bugs involved causing the spots. Maybe we add some moth balls in ours from now on. Say hi to Laura and have safe and smooth cruising this summer.
Dave and Ginny
 
I had one made by King in 2010. Last year I sprayed it with 303. So far no problems. I have tried towing with the top in the boot and up on the frame. The last two times it unzipped itself and flew off on the highway. Each time after backtracking I was fortunate enough to find it. I have since found a safer way of securing it up against the radar arch. If the boot catches wind it will unzip.
 
My own method of operation is never tow with the camper top canvas up or on the the frame when driving faster than the boat can go which limits me to 42 mph. Normally I even take the frame off and keep it in the back of the pickup for trips so we don't lose any set screws and the like in the buffeting wind traveling at 70 mph. A lot less to go wrong that way.
D.D.
 
Thank you all for your responses. I just came back from the canvas place and after inspecting it and asking me how far I tow the boat with the canvas on the frame, came to the conclusion that there was no chemical reaction whatsoever that caused it. The problem was wear and tear due to the zippers rubbing against the fabric. Makes sense and this is also confirmed by some of your responses. The boot is too loose and allows the wind to blow it, causing the wrapped bimini to rub against the frames and the zippers. I suppose I was naive and never thought the flapping of the boot would do this. Live and learn. Dave, I will follow your advise and in the future I will remove it from the frame when I trailer the boat and recommend everyone to do this. In the fall I may be contacting King Marine for another replacement. Thanks again.
 
Ramon Sr":33bgvsot said:
The bimini continued to deteriorate, so this winter I had a local canvas maker redo it. He took the old one apart so he could use it as a pattern to construct the new one. When received, I proceeded to open it in the garage and checked the fit. It was fine and I was proud of my new bimini at an additional cost of $700. This time, I did not use any sprays...nothing. I even threw the cover boot in the washing machine to make sure there was not a trace of the 303. I wrapped the new bimini around the SS frame and covered it with the boot. It sat in the heated garage the rest of the winter.

Two weeks ago, I opened the bimini during our first outing this year to find out it looked like the old one...faded spots and pin size holes.
Click to expand...

Don't understand. It deteriorated sitting in a heated garage with no treatment and it was new? Something isn't right... :roll:

Charlie
 
Charlie,

Thanks for your response. As I stated in my last post reply, the problem was apparently caused by the zippers rubbing against the canvas while trailering for 6 hours to Kentucky Lake. The damage did not occur while sitting in the garage.

Ramon
 
I can't comment on the pinhole deterioration if the Sunbrella, but I suspect that even minor vibration of the zipper teeth against the fabric could very well be the culprit. I was originally advised that althrough Sunbrella is very tough to sunlight and "the Elements," it's not very abrasion resistant.

For long distance trailering, I've come up with what seems like a workable (but tedious) solution.

First, if the 'top and related bows weren't SO big I'd probably just put them in the back of the truck out of the wx. I've also tried securing the rolled top & bows against the cabin buldhead but it rests exactly in a position that prevents opening the cabin door, so that makes boater homing difficult while on the road.

For the past few years I have kept the top rolled on the bows, in the "up" position with the boot zipped in place. True, that creates plenty of loose places to catch the highway-speed wind. For long trips, to remedy the flapping problem I bought a roll of box wrapping film (very much like saran wrap but only about 5" wide, and comes on a roller). When getting the boat ready for the highway, I wrap the whole booted canvas assembly in plastic film box-wrap, overlapping it as I go up and around the curved bows.

The technique has worked for tows to/from Florida to Arizona (2200 miles), and two weeks ago this is what I did before towing Arizona to Anacortes (WA). For the last trip I used some nylon filament strapping tape to keep the film wraps from shifting, and that seems to be a worthwhile improvement.

And last but not least I secure a diagonal line from each upper corner of the bow to a lower cleat, and a small line from the center of the upright bow forward to the rocket launcher. These seem to absorb most the the trailering strains while going along at highways speeds (but I haven't tried it above 70mph :-)

The whole process is a PITA to do, but for long hauls seems to work well.

Best,
Casey
 
Thank you for much good advise, Casey. I have always trailered securing the rolled top against the cabin bulkhead , and in my case it left sufficient room to open the cabin door. After what I have learned in the last two days, I will be trailering with the canvas folded inside the boat to prevent abrasion from the rubbing caused by the wind flapping the cover boot. I plan to roll an old towel around the frame and bungee it so I do not scratch the cabin bulkhead. Then I will rest the frame against the cabin bulkhead as I did before and secure it. This should take care of the problem. Then, in the fall I will get a new bimini and hope it stays intact throughout the 10-year Sunbrella warranty.
 
Casey":3og2km3j said:
... I suspect that even minor vibration of the zipper teeth against the fabric could very well be the culprit. I was originally advised that althrough Sunbrella is very tough to sunlight and "the Elements," it's not very abrasion resistant.
Click to expand...

This is true, and is something I was slightly surprised to find out - I guess because it is such a wonder fabric and it's (few) weaknesses tend to go unmentioned.

I'm going to attach a chart here that I find interesting. It's from Sailrite (and if you go to their website there is additional written info on each fabric to accompany the chart). I highlighted the usual marine Sunbrella, and you can see that it only rates a "2" on a scale of 1-5 (1 being the worst) for abrasion resistance. It's still a great fabric and is a great performer in other categories (and thus often chosen), but it's good to know about its weakness(es) too.

Fabric_chart.jpg


Casey":3og2km3j said:
For long trips, to remedy the flapping problem I bought a roll of box wrapping film (very much like saran wrap but only about 5" wide, and comes on a roller). When getting the boat ready for the highway, I wrap the whole booted canvas assembly in plastic film box-wrap, overlapping it as I go up and around the curved bows.
Click to expand...

I've done the same thing to wrap masts (and other things on the boat) for long-distance transport, and I, too, found that it worked well. The first time I did so, I kept a really close eye on it, as it seems so delicate, and I didn't want it to shred and then litter the road/woods as I went along; but it stayed intact through the whole trip. I'm slightly averse to using it for frequent trips just because of constantly having to throw it away, but I wonder if one could make a tight "sausage casing" out of a stretchy fabric and use that for an overboot when travelling? I guess one would have to make sure it was still realistically installable/zippable, etc.

Sunbeam :hot
 
Too late to add this to my previous post, so I used a reply:

Warning: Tangent/trivia ahead.

PS: Back when I was sailing in areas with intense sun, I had heard (or maybe read?) that there was a difference in "SPF factor" amongst the various colors of Sunbrella, such that the darker the color, the higher the "SPF factor," and the lighter the color, the lower one. I wondered about that over the years, and recently when I was doing some fabric shopping on Sailrite, I tried to find it in the fabric info, to no avail. They do mention the UV resistance of the marine Sunbrella (same for all colors), but that's about how the fabric will stand up to UV light, not what it will allow to pass through it onto occupants beneath it.

So, after posting the fabric chart just now it was on my mind again, and I decided to call Sailrite and ask them. After a few initial queries, wherein people thought it was probably all the same, but weren't really sure, I was transferred to one of the owners (who was very pleasant and helpful, as I have found everyone there to be), and he confirmed that it is true - the darker the Sunbrella color, the more "SPF factor" it possesses. I asked him if he could elaborate on that, and he said that the difference between, say, a Cadet Gray (lightish) and a Navy (dark) is not huge - but it does exist. He then added that a true white would be "more worse" (sorry, can't think of the best way to say that at the moment and he did not really use that phrase!), whereas a lighter-but-non-white color like Cadet Gray would be much closer to the same as a Navy, even though it is not as good as the Navy - if that makes sense. (So it's not totally linear along the light-dark continuum, is what I'm trying to say.)

He also mentioned that they (Glen Raven, the makers of Sunbrella, not Sailrite) do publish this sort of information in more detail in Europe, but not so much in the US. I guess they think we are more easily confused :wink

While I'm mentioning Sailrite, let me just say that they publish a great (and free) catalog, and I find that it makes a good and interesting reference (they have a good website too, but sometimes I just like a catalog to look through). They also have how-to videos for a number of projects. And you can get the owners on the phone if you have questions :thup I just ordered a "Snad" last week as I'm curious about them and I wanted to see a white one in real life to see how the color matched up to "C-Dory white." I have the Snad in hand now, but have not yet been able to compare it to a real, live boat.

(A Snad is basically a plastic snap stud or receptacle that is attached to the boat with VHB tape instead of the usual metal one attached with a screw. Therefore the base is much wider and there is "more of it there," so I was interested to see how the white would look on a C-Dory. I will report back after I experiment.)

Sunbeam :hot
 
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