Dealing with wake, etiquette, and ...

J

JamesTXSD

Active member
I just got off the phone with Scott Mathews - our new boat is scheduled to be finished at the end of next week! We have a committment in south Texas next weekend, and if we don't stop at our daughter's home in Phoenix on the way north, I'll loose my Best Daddy in the World status. We may be a couple days late in getting to our boat. It's my birthday next week... I think the Blonde and the Kid are expecting us to be there for that. :cake So much for no schedules.

Well, on to my question. There is an etiquette (not law) along the ICW that powerboats slow as they go by sailboats (or other non-powered craft) to minimize the effects of the wake. Today is the first day of the shrimping season here in south Texas, and yesterday while we were out sailing, scads of 60+ foot shrimpers (and plenty of other boats) tore by us on our 17' catboat in the ICW and the ship channel. Not a one of them slowed. Rarely do they. In fact, the Coast Guard small boats are some of the biggest wake-tossers. The Blonde is pragmatic, saying, "If you're going to be out on the water, you are going to get waked." I'm thinking, "Even in the channel, there is plenty of room... so why do they have to move even closer as they go by?" 3 to 4' of wake when you're in a 17' boat is pretty nasty. How do your C-Dorys take this kinda wake? Do you ever ease off the throttle as you're passing non-powered craft?

Big sportfishers seem to be the worst around here... I have reminded several that they are responsible for damage caused by their wake (maritime law, not etiquette). The resulting discussion usually degenerated into a discussion of un-married parents and performing seemingly impossible physical acts. :wink:

The discussion a while back on the wake tossed by a freighter was very informative... this that I'm talking about is wake generated less than 100' from you... and perhaps on both sides at the same time; downright sloppy conditions often encountered when entering/exiting a jetties with a bit of tidal flow (and some rollers) tossed in. How about when at anchor and some yahoo roars through? The Blonde thinks it is bad manners on my part to fire several warning shots into their hull. :twisted:

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I know there are plenty of sailors and former sailors here. I have no desire to turn this into a bag-ragger vs stinkpotter issue. In a couple weeks, I will find out first hand how the CD-25 handles this stuff. Just wondering what the collective wisdom of this fine group can offer. Thanks in advance for your reponse.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
I think your C-Dory will handle the wakes just fine...mine does. I routinely try to give unpowered vessels a little extra leeway and usually, but not always, slow down to reduce reduce my wake, guess it comes from growing up sailing very small boats.
 
Jim,

TX and FLA don't have a corner on the wake market. Terrible here, particularly at Deception Pass where the Microsoft destroyer fleet - and their close relatives - go through with huge wakes. I've called the CG on some of the big sightseeing boats -- and they have been warned and actually have slowed down. BUT it is impossible to educate them all, and a good skipper will give any small boat lots of room just as you do.

Because I'm a many-years professional skipper I know the rules, teach the rules, and sometimes am called to maritime courts as an "expert" -- (yep, got a briefcase!!) -- the fines are usually not wrist-slaps!! One guy ended up with over 20K in fines for damages done by his wake in a channel.

My CD 22's and Tomcat all handle any wake with no problems for the boat -- just a ticked off skipper and copilot. Even get thirsty and have a bloody...

The problem here for me is when I have a shrimp pot at 300+ feet and a big cruiser comes close aboard with a 10 ft. wake and miles of ocean to avoid me. Any wind or current keeps my stern pointed toward the shrimp pot (just like a huge sea anchor), and I end up with a foot or two of water dumped over the transom. :evil: :evil:. Not dangerous, but the sight of my Nikons floating in a foot of salt water tends to turn my face red.

You will absolutely love your CD - guaranteed.

Dusty
 
Interesting thread.....and great news on your boat. I have followed your post with your excitement and shared anticipation..... back to the wake...

WOW... No real "do it this way" answer for me on this one... it kinda depends...and kinda changes with "total conditions"

Some folks slow down a little....just enought to make the largest wake possible behind their "current" boat..... (i.e. slow down on a pontoon boat and one thing happens....slow down on any type of planing hull....and the aft section of the boat drops deeper into the water, which drastically increases that big ol set of roller wakes of each side of the boat.)

Had a guy driving my TC24 one day and he would slow to about 10-12mph to pass folks instead of just staying up on plane....and...those big ol rollers would happen...making it much worse for our boat...(and economy), and all other boats in the area. Just simply staying on plane at speed in the TC24 had very little wake behind the boat... so....unless you were going to slow to basically idle speed.... go ahead and stay on plane.

Now... on uncrowded days/areas.... yes... It just looks and feels more polite to slow down....but...again...only if you are going to slow all the way down....

On those real crowded days.... just be ready for a lot of confused seas/wakes... Going into and out of passes and bays.... just do not go in or out when the charter folks or folks that make a living are going out.... get up and leave earlier....or.... have a nice late breakfast and go out after they are all out making their livings....

Any way... just be aware of what YOUR BOAT does....at all speeds....and do the next best thing... sometimes...faster is better.
 
Sawdust":3lawx2kh said:
... You will absolutely love your CD - guaranteed.

Dusty
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No doubt in my mind about that! We have changed our whole lifestyle based on this boat: retired, sold a house, sold a business, bought a pick-up... and we plan to take a couple years to see the country from the waterside in this boat. :D I'm a researching kinda guy; especially when it comes to something major like this. I have a USCG captain's license, have taught sailing classes, have sailed a slew of boats from 17' to 50', raced and hauled boats all over. But this is the biggest leap of faith I've ever taken! And I can't begin to tell you how important is has been to hear from the fine folks, like you, on this forum.

I know how and where we intend to use the boat, that this is the best boat for us. But, I have to admit, I have been a sailorboy through and through... and any of the sailors here know what I am talking about. The majority of powerboaters don't have a clue about Rules of the Road (the members of this forum excluded, of course :wink ); nor do they know what to expect from a sailboat based on the tack and wind direction. When I told my sailing buddies about our plans for this boat and our travels, I expected gasps and "no way". It didn't happen. We got a lot of "sounds like a real adventure" and "that's gonna be a great boat for the way you will use it."

We could not be more excited! To this point, my participation here has been specific C-Dory questions and general boating (anchoring, navigation, electronics, etc) stuff that is not boat specific. I have just been excited to participate here. Thanks for the response, Dusty and all. This IS a big deal for us... more than the life-changes, the change from sail to power. LOL

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Jim,

It's almost shocking the number of rag guys who have ended up with a C Dory! I'm one of those too, and sometimes would again like to sail my old Hershoff (sp?) built in 1898 - high gaff rig, and a beautiful old classic.

As an unlimited tonnage ocean master I should know a lot more than I do... time takes its toll! But being polite on the water just never goes away.

Best of luck!

Dusty
 
The majority of powerboaters don't have a clue about Rules of the Road (the members of this forum excluded, of course );
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From what I've seen and deduced, the number of CG Captains, Mates, and Masters is a far higher percentage of the C-Dory group than other owner forums I've been on. (might be a false assumption on my part -- but certainly seems so from the knowledge base)
 
Sawdust":1f5jvkea said:
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As an unlimited tonnage ocean master I should know a lot more than I do... time takes its toll! But being polite on the water just never goes away.
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Dusty
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Aw come on Dusty - you're polite off the water too (at least when I've seen ya').
 
I agree with Byrdman. If you are going to slow down, slow down all the way. A friend was piloting my boat into Whittier the other day as we were passing a CG Aux vessel with another vessel under tow. We were passing about 400 yards to port and she was going to heed their warning and slow down and minimize the wake. If we had slowed down enough to drop off step to keep the wake small, we would be going slower than they were. If we slowed down to 10-12 mph we would have been throwing a larger wake. As it was, we pressed by at 22 mph with a pretty small wake and a lot sea room.

The worse wake I have ever encountered in my limited C-Dory time (in my second year) was from a water taxi exiting the Homer small boat harbor. I was running about 5 miles an hour just coming up on the jetty and he came out with a 4 foot wake at about 15 mph. I'm glad I got pointed at him. As it was, I went over the first and buried my bow in the second one and rattled everything pretty well.

In that situation, I would think a round through the engine room would have been appropriate. While the blonde may be right in saying it is bad manners, it does get the point across, complaints to the harbormaster not withstanding.
 
Dusty wrote:
I'm one of those too, and sometimes would again like to sail my old Hershoff (sp?) built in 1898 - high gaff rig, and a beautiful old classic.
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So Dusty, ordered it NEW? Hmmm, you're younger than I thought...:lol:

James, I'm an 'old' sailor too as you know, 7 boats but nothing to compare with your range, wow. From personal testimony, my CD-25 has handled every kind of sea I've been in so far (2 storms -- at anchor though). It handles big stuff so well you'll be absolutely amazed, take my word for it. The 'dory' hull shape is the key! On the other hand, as you and others know, you can't get complacent when it comes to heavy weather and big stuff -- feces occurs (a Don-ism), this hull tends to make you relax perhaps TOO much! 1 week to go, wow.
 
Aw Steve -

You know how to punish a young feller! That old Hershoff was sure fun though. Had to sign an agreement to NEVER, under any circumstances, put power aboard her. Really more fun than my Star... doubt that there are any of those around either.

Son Les (EQ) is also a rag sailor and now sending for plans to build one. Genetic disease I guess.

I am surprised at the number of CD skippers and wives who have been to the USCG or power squadron classes. Good!

Dusty (scarfing a plate of fresh Dungeness crab, so sorry to be talking with a mouth full)
 
Hey Dusty, sorry for the 'age' joke, couldn't resist. Honestly, you and Les are my idols, I continue to learn so much from your wisdom and savy understanding of boats, men and the sea (..sounds like a book doesn't it?). I consulted with Les a great deal before taking delivery of my boat, sure helped ease the unknowns. Hope to meet you both some day in person, just a quick jaunt UP the coast from here, eh?

Over the years I've come across some good reading on the various Herreshoff vessels, very beautiful lines, fast and excellent sailing characteristics. You've literally lived among famous royalty to have owned and sailed one of them.
 
Steve :lol: --

Anything I do at this age is a joke :sad.

Would certainly like to meet you in person. Les is a cool guy and my favorite fishing/boating partner, but he is so danged busy we rarely get out on the big water together now. Our morning Latte and BS session is the highlight of my day. I'm twisting his arm to get him to do the Bellingham gig with me -- so many old CD friends will be there, and the bestest beer anywhere -- and I've made many a Munich Octoberfest!!!

Just a hop, skip, jump from there to here -- come on up. Great cruising, great bunch of CD folks. Stop by TyBoo Mike and Kay's in OR, great friends who share Sturgeon - and Cynthia and Jon in Port Angeles, who are wonderful hosts and make the best smoked salmon I've ever tasted. And of course our brain - Bill (DaNag) is usually in the area too.

Dusty
 
We just gave up our Hereshoff America 18 foot cat boat when we bought the C-Dory. But we sold it to a family member for a nominal amount and an agreement to sell if back to us if we ever want it! On Saturday we took delivery of a 50 year old Down Easter sailing dinghy so I can get my sailing fix from time to time. I spent a couple of hours on it that day before leaving town for the week. There's nothing like sailing to teach you what you need to know about wind, current, life . . .

I know what you mean about the sport fishers. I can't tell whether they don't care how they affect other boats or actually get perverse pleasure from making other people's lives more difficult.

Norma Scogin
 
Hi Norma,
The HA is a great looking boat... did you have the "flag" sail? A real classic (much like the C-Dory). :thup

This past winter while on the tri, we had one sportfisher change course to come closer, then turned hard. They were close enough that, even over the roar of their engine, we could hear people onboard groan as the wake hammered us... the skipper appeared to be laughing. :evil: I hollered on the radio; no response. I called their office; their official response: it never happened. It's no wonder sailors are wary of some powerboaters. :sad

I promise to be a considerate kinda guy with our C-Dory.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Even on inland lakes, there are rude captains.... Having sailed and motored, I have no big biases, but as someone just said, there are those types on both crafts. On one of our local lakes, I often spent the night on my little houseboat, so saw alot of amazing interpretations of the right of way rule by the local large sailing craft were observed: 1) Lawyers fixing groumet meals down in the galley for him and girlfriend while cruising on autopilot at 11pm. Small anchored and drifting fishermen were expected to dodge out of the way since no person was minding the helm at all. 1) Twice, I was roused out of sleep to go and try to pull these large sailcraft off shoals. 2) Once, I was aroused at 1:30am to drag one of these boats off the DAM! He was in the forward bunk with his girlfriend and the DAM did not understand who really had the right away! So that's a hint about some of the types who 'pilot' different types of crafts... not limited to any one type. John
 
dogon dory":bw0yi7jk said:
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It is, however, a statistical certainty that travelling at 20 knots as opposed to 7 knots gives the guy on the sportfisherman more opportunity to expose his nature to a broader audience than the equivalently obtuse sailor.
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Hi Dan,
I hadn't considered it from that statistical point. Down here in "Mexico Lite", there are a lot more sportfishers and darn few... well, OK, I guess I've never seen a 70' maxi racer here. :wink: Perhaps the fact that you'd have to run a ways out into the Gulf to find enough depth for the keel would be a consideration.

It's likely with a maxi racer you'd have some warning that they were going to try to wake you and turn off: the crew of 15 scrambling from one side to the other would be a give away! :wink

Best wishes,
Jim B. (Just put the catboat away, getting ready for our treck to the north)
 
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