Does anyone have experience with Permatrims on C-Dorys?
- Thread starter Baxter
- Start date
jack keifer
New member
We have a 16 cruiser, hardly the same type of craft, but we do have a Honda 50 and it has a Permatrim. We are very pleased with it and if we had to do it again we would have another one. Your correct in that adjustments are made by simply changing the engine trim,
Jack
Jack
Many C-Dorys use them and most people find it make positive improvements to boat handling.
Lots of discussion in other threads over the years,
http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?p= ... f037180454
http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=11194
http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... sc&start=0
http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... 66f4dccc62
Greg
Lots of discussion in other threads over the years,
http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?p= ... f037180454
http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=11194
http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... sc&start=0
http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... 66f4dccc62
Greg
colbysmith
Active member
I have the CD-22 with the Mercury 115. Just added the Permatrim this year, and it has definitely made an improvement in getting my bow down without having to use my trim tabs for that. Also helps stop the cavitation with the motor trimmed up more and going just a little faster than no wake. The Permatrim is sold by Shipyard Marina on Washington Island in Door County, Wisconsin. They are good folks there and I'm pretty sure would provide any help you needed over the phone regarding the Permatrim. (I've had them do engine service for me earlier on an IO, and they have a pretty good shop!) Colby
I had a Venture 23 and twins with Permatrims and no tabs. More than satisfied. Found no need for trim tabs. I think the Permatrims improve comfort, handling, and efficiency. One thing that is too often overlooked is the mounting height of your engines. Those Permatrims should ride with just the thinnest film of water passing over them when your boat is on plane.
I'm in!
I love my trim tabs. I even have a cool old style single post controller. I love that too!!
I'll bet I'd love permatrim too, but with my single BF90 they wouldn't help much when my passengers move around or I forget to switch tanks and have one full and one empty.
I'd like to add a permatrim someday, but my trim tabs give me all I really need, and I am accustomed to using them a lot anyway from other boats I run, that they do the trick. I do adjust them fairly constantly though. It kind of makes running the boat a three handed affair. I've tried the auto trim tab controllers and just can't get them to make me happy.
But extra juice to get your bow up or down is a big thing to these CDory boats! If you had permatrim handlng your bow attitude your trim tabs would be able to have more room to level you out. Plus I have to believe that the permatrim along with trim tabs would allow you to get your bow DOWN very easily, however my trim tabs do that very well on their own. They don't do anything to raise the bow though, they just stop pushing it down, and your engine trim largely dictates how much your bow will be trimmed up. I can very clearly see how conditions could make this very very very valuable. The worse things get the more I want my bow UP. Bow DOWN is a comfort thing, but bow UP is a safety thing. Being able to drive the bow UP with more force before cavitation sounds like a very very very nice thing in some spots, especially in overcoming what I feel is the absolute worst sea state for our boats, which is riding big swells with a larger following surface wave/chop. I've felt more comfortable running into breakers than I have coming down the face of a swell on one stern quarter with tight 3' waves also on my opposite sterm quarter. It is very difficult to keep the boat from developing bowsteer in those seas, and while I've never truly broached my C Dory, at those transitional slower speeds between planing and displacement the boat sometimes can't make up it's mind whether it will lean to the inside of a turn (like it does on step) or to the outside of a turn (like it does in displacement), and the boat seems to develop bowsteer at those same speeds more easily. Every time my bow would dig into the back of one of these surface waves the speed would drop, the boat would want to lean to the opposite side of whatever turn we were doing (never straight!) and it sort of made a broaching feedback loop.
The only thing I wanted on these rare occasions is for my bow to get up higher without coming off the slow plane I was doing. If I could have jsut made contact with these surface waves a foot farther aft on my bow it would be with a much flatter portion of the hull and the bowsteer would probably not have developed.
Anyway, I've only run in these conditions twice, and the second time I just turned around and went home (which was way easier to handle). A bit more bow lift and I think it would have performed much better.
I love my trim tabs. I even have a cool old style single post controller. I love that too!!
I'll bet I'd love permatrim too, but with my single BF90 they wouldn't help much when my passengers move around or I forget to switch tanks and have one full and one empty.
I'd like to add a permatrim someday, but my trim tabs give me all I really need, and I am accustomed to using them a lot anyway from other boats I run, that they do the trick. I do adjust them fairly constantly though. It kind of makes running the boat a three handed affair. I've tried the auto trim tab controllers and just can't get them to make me happy.
But extra juice to get your bow up or down is a big thing to these CDory boats! If you had permatrim handlng your bow attitude your trim tabs would be able to have more room to level you out. Plus I have to believe that the permatrim along with trim tabs would allow you to get your bow DOWN very easily, however my trim tabs do that very well on their own. They don't do anything to raise the bow though, they just stop pushing it down, and your engine trim largely dictates how much your bow will be trimmed up. I can very clearly see how conditions could make this very very very valuable. The worse things get the more I want my bow UP. Bow DOWN is a comfort thing, but bow UP is a safety thing. Being able to drive the bow UP with more force before cavitation sounds like a very very very nice thing in some spots, especially in overcoming what I feel is the absolute worst sea state for our boats, which is riding big swells with a larger following surface wave/chop. I've felt more comfortable running into breakers than I have coming down the face of a swell on one stern quarter with tight 3' waves also on my opposite sterm quarter. It is very difficult to keep the boat from developing bowsteer in those seas, and while I've never truly broached my C Dory, at those transitional slower speeds between planing and displacement the boat sometimes can't make up it's mind whether it will lean to the inside of a turn (like it does on step) or to the outside of a turn (like it does in displacement), and the boat seems to develop bowsteer at those same speeds more easily. Every time my bow would dig into the back of one of these surface waves the speed would drop, the boat would want to lean to the opposite side of whatever turn we were doing (never straight!) and it sort of made a broaching feedback loop.
The only thing I wanted on these rare occasions is for my bow to get up higher without coming off the slow plane I was doing. If I could have jsut made contact with these surface waves a foot farther aft on my bow it would be with a much flatter portion of the hull and the bowsteer would probably not have developed.
Anyway, I've only run in these conditions twice, and the second time I just turned around and went home (which was way easier to handle). A bit more bow lift and I think it would have performed much better.
smckean (Tosca)
New member
I just had my boat (CD25) re-powered last summer. The mechanic (a great guy) recommended a hydrofoil; so I said "Sure" without thinking too much about it. For whatever reason, he installed a WhaleTail rather than a Permatrim. Anyone have any comments contrasting the two? I would think they are pretty much the same thing.
Incidentally, I too am very happy with how the WhaleTail adds to the boat's performance.
Incidentally, I too am very happy with how the WhaleTail adds to the boat's performance.
The main difference however minor would be the vertically downturned edges of the Permatrim that are supposed to act like additional rudder surface for low speed directional control especially when drifting more than powering (near docks for me). I noticed it a little on a past boat but I guess the lift is really the much bigger priority.
Greg
Greg
I have compared the C Dory 22 , C Dory 25 and Tom Cat 255, with and without a foil. I prefer the Permatrim to the Doelfin (which current boat came with, and I amy switch out this year.
In my opinion, the C Dory22 and 25 need both the trim tabs and Permatrim to get the best performance and ride out of the boat.
Some do use the twins, with a foil instead of the trim tabs. I think it is slightly less efficient,.
In my opinion, the C Dory22 and 25 need both the trim tabs and Permatrim to get the best performance and ride out of the boat.
Some do use the twins, with a foil instead of the trim tabs. I think it is slightly less efficient,.
Owning a small 16' Angler - getting the bow down is not really an issue for me. But I have considered the Permatrim as having a small benefit in extending the hull length factor which, of course, if it was enough to feel, this would be a benefit to a short 16 Dory hull.Aurelia":vcjiibdp said:
My thoughts go like this. The hull's longitudinal axis's "CG" point must be changed, moving slightly aft, as the Permatrim's surface area extents the hull's surface area. However, this comes down to a ratio of - surface areas. This relationship of areas of the Permatrim to hull factor in a 22-23 ft Dory probably means Permatrim is an infinitesimal factor --WSY-- who have the Permatrim on a 16 - or anyone with a mathematical concept of what I am referring to here.