Getting Daydream on a Plane on the Loop

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Pat Anderson

New member
A fellow Looper here at Little Falls made a suggestion to get Daydream on plane. ALL our heavy stuff - AC, Aquatainer with 7 gallons of water, bar stock bin, Pelican Cooler, spare parts bin and pet food/composting toilet supplies are across the back of the cockpit. He suggested that when we need to get on a plane, we should move the heaviest stuff to the vee-berth, or as far forward as we can get it. He thought this would help the BF150 push the bow up over the bow wake and get on plane. Agree? I am going to give it a try on Lake Oneida, and if it works, it will really cut down our time and exposure on Lake Ontario!
 
Pat Anderson":2ql9ewos said:
A fellow Looper here at Little Falls made a suggestion to get Daydream on plane. ALL our heavy stuff - AC, Aquatainer with 7 gallons of water, bar stock bin, Pelican Cooler, spare parts bin and pet food/composting toilet supplies are across the back of the cockpit. He suggested that when we need to get on a plane, we should move the heaviest stuff to the vee-berth, or as far forward as we can get it. He thought this would help the BF150 push the bow up over the bow wake and get on plane. Agree? I am going to give it a try on Lake Oneida, and if it works, it will really cut down our time and exposure on Lake Ontario!
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Definitely agree. With a lot of weight to stern, the boat will tend to wallow more. I'm still surprised that you can get on plane at all though.
 
Everyone has heard of the problems with weight distribution associated with the design flaws of the 19.i like to keep my fuel tanks full to sidestep condensation problems but that compounds stern weight concerns. I like to keep about 100 lbs plus,of lead in the bottom of my anchor locker to compensate for the stern heavy characteristics of the 19. Life has been better since. Larger c-Dorys present different problems, being waterborne campers,with far more gear& weight farther astern. Life is better with weight forward...to an extent!!! Experiment incrementally because too much forward can get spooky! Scarey spooky!!!
 
I agree with your fellow 'looper'. In my past experience with single engine boats I found moving 'stuff' forward really helped in getting on plane faster. On Lake Powell it saved me from buying a new prop given the high altitude power loss.

If I have four passengers in the rear of the cockpit of my Tomcat while getting on plane I can definitely tell the difference versus their sitting forward in the cabin.

That said, at some point you will be just too dam heavy to plane no matter where you put your stuff. If it were me I would experiment with less water, shipping the a/c and some spare stuff home, and/or leaving some stuff on the dock for testing. I would also be hesitant to move the heavy stuff too far forward for control reasons.

PS Medical supplies, aka bar-stock, is not to be considered as spare supplies :mrgreen:
 
Pat..do you have a permatrim on your Honda? It sure helped my Honda 90 on the 22.
I also have one on my Yamaha 200 on the C-Otter. Even with a major load on an extended dive trip no problem. But then it has the extra HP.
 
Pat..do you have a permatrim on your Honda? It sure helped my Honda 90 on the 22.
I also have one on my Yamaha 200 on the C-Otter. Even with a major load on an extended dive trip no problem. But then it has the extra HP.
 
Hi Pat, I agree, Heavy stuff needs to be low, and midships, but some can sure go forward. Incremental may be a good approach. Permatrim may also help. I haven't had one, but I do move stuff forward and to the opposite side often.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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hardee":1wgl3axu said:
Permatrim may also help. I haven't had one,
Harvey
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Harvey - Maybe that's just one more advantage in having twice the sq. in. area of anti - cavitation plates :wink: 8)

Pat - I went to a 4 blade prop which gives better stern lift with a heavy load aft. We do throw some stuff into the cuddy while under way both for weight distribution and to keep the cockpit clear for tending lines. I stuffed my bow in a following sea one day and it wasn't the most fun thing to do :shock: - so I am hesitant about adding too much weight too far forward.

Regards, Rob
 
Avidmagnum12":33p6t6t9 said:
Pat..do you have a permatrim on your Honda? It sure helped my Honda 90 on the 22.
I also have one on my Yamaha 200 on the C-Otter. Even with a major load on an extended dive trip no problem. But then it has the extra HP.
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We do not have a Permatrim, we do have trim tabs though. I never thought about putting the trim tabs down, that should help as well. For sure a Yamaha 200 would totally solve this issue! But that would be a pretty drastic solution for a problem of somewhat limited duration!
 
".... I stuffed my bow in a following sea one day and it wasn't the most fun thing to do :shock: - so I am hesitant about adding too much weight too far forward.

Regards, Rob"
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Rob, it doesn't take very many of those episodes to learn that lesson. That is why I try to put heavy stuff midships and low. Feeling that bow dig in and turn can be scary for sure.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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Pat.....the trim tabs will help get you on plane. In combination with the Permatrim you should seldom if ever have a problem getting your 25 up. We were out in some 2 foot waves today and are able to get the bow down enough to keep from pounding and still move along at 20mph or so. Had to use the Permatrim and trim tabs. No..you do not need a 200...but I really recommend a Permatrim. They do wonders on heavy C-Dorys. Keep having fun on your trip....Tom
 
25's are stern heavy. Fuel, water, batteries, cooler, main engine, kicker, etc, etc, etc...

We try to do the same; move as much forward as realistic. Not always easy and a PIA, but...

We try to keep it under the table and in the Admirals foot space (more mid-ship)...sometimes even in the walkway.
 
Hi Pat,
One of the things you mentioned was 7 gallons of water in an "aquatainer." Is that water a backup to the "standard" tank in the 25? If so, dump it. On the whole Loop you will never be more than a few hours from a water source. For the same reason look at your fuel tanks. Consider going "half" full and stopping more often. Only in two sections of the Great Loop will you not pass two or more fuel/ water sources each day. Those are: 1) the Mississippi River section between St Louis & Paducah, KY; and 2) the Big Bend crossing. Even the crossing of Lake Ontario from Oswego, NY to Kingston, ON is only a bit over 50 miles. To have a several day reserve of both water and fuel is unneeded extra weight.

I removed my water tank and put a smaller tank under the V berth in my CD-22. Before doing that I ran 60% perma-trim to make the boat feel "good" on plane. After installing the front tank it only takes 40% to reach the same point. Yes there is a difference between a 22 and a 25 but I think you will be pleased with the result of both lighting the boat and moving the gear.

Chuck
 
OK, we are on Lake Oneida. All the weight has been moved forward. I don't think my trim tabs are working, but the switches were put in the tabs fully down position.

Here is what we got, we did achieve plane but at a significant fuel cost.

WOT - 4200 RPM, 15.5 smph, 43, 12 gph.

3800 RPM, 10 smph, 5.5 gph.

I am not going to fiddle with propping here. We run great with our normal load in the PNW, although we have become slow cruisers there as well. I might get a Permatrim when we get back home, but I don't see botherins with it here.

So at 2000 RPM, we are going 7 smph, 0.9 gph. It looks like we will go slow across Lake Ontario, a 50 mile crossing. 10 smp is a 5 hour crossing, 7 smp is a 7 hour crossing, not significantly different in time but hugely different in fuel burn.
 
Wow! You are way short of max RPM at wide open throttle - definitely propped wrong for your weight. On Wild Blue, heavily loaded for cruising, we would see 16 to 18 knots at 4800 RPM, with a fuel burn of around 8 gph. 23 to 24 knots at WOT. Using the trim tabs to trim for best efficiency at a given RPM. You should be able to see the trim tabs move as the buttons are pressed, to know that they are working.

If the trim tabs are not working and are in the down position, it would be making a lot of drag, even at slow speeds. I'd suggest you go to the stern to check them out while Patty runs the buttons. Functioning trim tabs can get/keep you on plane sooner, saving you fuel and $$.

Lake Oneida can get snotty; some extra speed would give you less exposure. When we were in that area, a local told us earlier in the day was better for lake conditions.

Good luck with that portion. Always take time for ice cream. :wink:
 
What pitch prop are you using? We live aboard our 25 and are heavily loaded. With 3 batteries, generator, kicker, full water and fuel, we still can run about 25 mph at 5400 rpm. That's with a Suzuki 140 and 15 pitch prop. We normally cruise at 2000 rpm or less ( 5-6 mph), but it is a good feeling to know you can make crossings at 15 to 20 if you need to. I do use full tabs most of the time I'm on plane and don't have a permitrim.
 
Pat, Pat, Pat; The trim tabs need hydraulic fluid to run. Since you and I have the trim tabs, here's how.

Have someone look in the starboard hatch that's in the cockpit floor. There's a black box with a screw in the top. Remove the screw, then the cover and you'll see a dipstick. Check that the stick reads full. If not add auto trans fluid, which is what it calls for. When it's full, run the tabs down, see if any fluid squirts out and fix that. The tubing that runs from the box, which is a hydraulic pump, to the tab actuators, is easy to fix, have the mechanic do it.

I can't get Journey On up on a plane without the tabs, can't see how you could. Doesn't matter what the pitch is or anything else. Actually when you posted earlier, I thought you were kidding about the tabs. Anyway, good luck.

Boris
 
outbackbill":1aevtbhj said:
What pitch prop are you using? We live aboard our 25 and are heavily loaded. With 3 batteries, generator, kicker, full water and fuel, we still can run about 25 mph at 5400 rpm. That's with a Suzuki 140 and 15 pitch prop. We normally cruise at 2000 rpm or less ( 5-6 mph), but it is a good feeling to know you can make crossings at 15 to 20 if you need to. I do use full tabs most of the time I'm on plane and don't have a permitrim.
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I don't remember diameter and pitch of our prop, but it is perfect for our usual load in the PNW, we can run fast there. I am just not going to fiddle with re-propping here.
 
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