We got our CD 25 about 2 months ago and have it (at the dock) ready to travel. Shake down cruise is being planned as we speak. I also recently found and acquired a tow vehicle. Now I'm starting the search for a trailer. I think I want a tandem axle aluminum with about 10,000 lb capacity. I'm studying the surge brakes vs elec over hydraulic (which I know is better but lots more expensive). I need help narrowing down the makers who know the CD design and don't cost more than the truck that's towing it. I also would appreciate any advice about weight distribution hitch issues. Coaching is appreciated. I have located custom builders who will make one with disc surge brakes for around $4500 new. I will be mostly towing one or two trips a year and mostly in Florida (flat). I might go north to Minnesota or Long Island sound but will not be crossing the Rockies or other major ranges under extreme conditions. Any 25 owner want to sell a trailer?
Got the boat, just got the tow vehicle, need a trailer and s
- Thread starter Alexander
- Start date
I'm sure some folks will beg to differ. I would get a Float On aluminum trailer from Vero Beach with Kodiak disc brakes with all stainless steel hardware. And as long as I am spending your money get the electric over hydraulic brake option by using a Hydrastar 1600 psi actuator with a HBA CAM adapter. Best braking system you can buy IMHO. I don't think Float On sells direct but Marc from Wefings in East Point Florida a frequent contributor to this site could help you get the trailer of your dreams.
D.D.
D.D.
I agree with Dave, that for Florida towing surge brakes are adequate. Float on makes a good trailer, but there are a lot of there who do too. "Trailer building" seems to be a cottage industry in FL. You can buy the extrusions already bent, the axles, the rollers and bunks, axles, brakes etc--all it needs is a wrench to put them together…. It is best to buy from one of the well established builders.
$4500 is a great price for a 10,000 lb cap trailer, with brakes--etc. But I would look at the quality of the material etc…
We don't know what tow vehicle you have. Many of the trucks require a weight distribution hitch on over XX XX lbs. Look at the manual. I did find that my 25 towed better with a WD hitch--I am not using it--so it could be obtained for a low price. If you are interested, I could take it South in Jan. when we go to the keys (excuse for you to drive on down!)…..
$4500 is a great price for a 10,000 lb cap trailer, with brakes--etc. But I would look at the quality of the material etc…
We don't know what tow vehicle you have. Many of the trucks require a weight distribution hitch on over XX XX lbs. Look at the manual. I did find that my 25 towed better with a WD hitch--I am not using it--so it could be obtained for a low price. If you are interested, I could take it South in Jan. when we go to the keys (excuse for you to drive on down!)…..
Thanks guys, I am looking at the Float On as well as others. I have a Ford Expedition with heavy duty towing package. It's rated for 8950 lbs with weight distributing hitch.
Dr. Bob, I keep getting told that I shouldn't get surge brakes and I understand some of the obvious disadvantages but I'm really only concerned with highway safety , not ramp use etc. Do they work well in general? I've either had boats too big to trailer or too small to need brakes so this is a new area for me. Thanks, Bob
Dr. Bob, I keep getting told that I shouldn't get surge brakes and I understand some of the obvious disadvantages but I'm really only concerned with highway safety , not ramp use etc. Do they work well in general? I've either had boats too big to trailer or too small to need brakes so this is a new area for me. Thanks, Bob
Captains Cat
New member
As Dr Bob did, we towed a TC 255 at about 11000# with a. Diesel Excursion with surge brakes and an aluminum float on trailer with no problems. Never felt unsafe.
Charlie
Charlie
My friend tows a 24ft sea ray(8000lb) with a Navigator in florida and keeps the speed down under 50 mph with no real problems The navigator /expedition fords seem up to the task of towing up to 8000lb .He has had brake problems with the Kodiak's and needs to replace them in little over a year ? Please whatever brakes you get make sure you hose off with fresh water after putting boat in .
We have about 40k trailering our 6,000 pound boat on a Float On trailer. We trailered to Yellowstone and Lake Superior. Maine to Florida. We also operate mostly in saltwater. Our Kodiak brakes are still the original rotors and calipers that came with trailer which purchased in 2009 from Wefings. We started out with surge brakes and later switched to the electric over hydraulic. We tow at or slightly above the speed limit 65 to 70 mph because we are trying to cover ground. Electric over hydraulic brakes just stop better period. That comes into play when people pull boneheaded moves which can happen anywhere in the Rockies or on the flat lands of Florida. I'm very glad to have EOH no matter where we are. For me they provide an extra level of safety. If your just going to the boat ramp from your house almost anything will do. Traveling distances at 50 mph because of a under rated tow vehicle or because you brakes aren't up to the task makes you a nuisance on the highway. JMHO
Captains Cat
New member
We did not have the WD hitch in the long tow from Pensacola to VA and that was probably the partial cause of two front tire blowouts at 70mph, that and 5 yo tires that I neglected to replace (against Dr Bob's recommendation), the boat should be about 6" aft of where it was then if no WD hitch was used. We don't have that boat or trailer any more but it did go to the West coast on new tires with no problems. S WD hitch would be a good idea with your lighter tow vehicle.
Charlie
Charlie
Are E/H brakes better--absolutely. What percent of boats have E/H?--Maybe 5%? Flatlands of Florida, even up along the coast, etc--surge brakes are fine. We towed our 25 from NJ Jersey, to Calif, to Washington, over to Powell, back to Calif. Then from Calif to Prince Rupert, up thru a lot of mountains, to Washington, and back to Powell. We were towing with a diesel excursion--a bit heavier vehicle. We had the weight distribution hitch, and the surge brakes worked fine with it.
There are some issues with E/H--some built in truck controllers are not compatible with the electric systems. There are higher pressures needed for E/H--highest for disc, and a bit lower for drums. Also there can be a failure with any system--for example I have twice had unavoidable road gators (old tire tread) which caused damage to the electrical connection between a truck and vehicle being towed. (this can be an issue with pure electric brakes also). My wife had $8,000 of damage to her Audi from a road gator, when she was driving 25 mph on a city street.
The only problem I had with the surge brakes was after going down a very long grade--where I was using the diesel compression, instead of using the service brakes (I try and rarely use the service brakes on any vehicle, if I can use engine compression). I violated my rule, of checking the hub temps every 2 hours, because there was not a place to pull off the road safely. I did have one of the hubs heat up, and then the other the next day--the conclusion was that the calipers were dragging during the long down grade. One option discussed was a switch to lock out the surge brakes in this situation. I backed off slightly on those two calipers, and no more problems (had to change out a set of bearings). I completely rebuilt the brakes before I sold the boat--but the old calipers/discs were fine.
The hitch is buried in the garage, but I am quite sure it is the "Equalizer" Brand. As long as the chains allow unencumbered sliding of the coupler on the tongue, the surge brakes work fine. We worked with a hitch shop when we bought the unit. It does have the "pole tongue" adaptor, and an adjustable heavy duty hitch.
Yes, I had occasion to hit the brakes hard because of some idiot--and the surge brakes did the job. There are multiple factors in stopping--driving habits (I drive at a comfortable speed, usually below the speed limit, and about the same as most on the road trucks).--most of the time recently it is a 36,000 lb RV, towing either a 5500 lb SUV, the Caracal--about 2800 lbs, or the c Dory at about 5,000 lbs (close guess). Today most of our new vehicles have anti lock up breaking systems. So locking the brakes is not always the best way of stopping. E/H, E or surge can all lock up the trailer brakes in panic mode. (I also have the option of air brakes or air over hydraulic for the trailer when towing with the RV).
One of the secrets of successful long haul driving is being aware of what is at least a mile ahead, and not just what is in front of you. Also there are maps/books which tell the grades, and which routes to take/avoid.
If I was going to be driving the mountains all of the time--E/H, or electric (assumption that I would be using mostly fresh water). In Florida I am very comfortable with surge brakes (and we even have a few very small hills in S. Florida).
Absolutely, wash the brakes after every use. I carry a garden sprayer to do that with when there is no domestic water supply available.
There are some issues with E/H--some built in truck controllers are not compatible with the electric systems. There are higher pressures needed for E/H--highest for disc, and a bit lower for drums. Also there can be a failure with any system--for example I have twice had unavoidable road gators (old tire tread) which caused damage to the electrical connection between a truck and vehicle being towed. (this can be an issue with pure electric brakes also). My wife had $8,000 of damage to her Audi from a road gator, when she was driving 25 mph on a city street.
The only problem I had with the surge brakes was after going down a very long grade--where I was using the diesel compression, instead of using the service brakes (I try and rarely use the service brakes on any vehicle, if I can use engine compression). I violated my rule, of checking the hub temps every 2 hours, because there was not a place to pull off the road safely. I did have one of the hubs heat up, and then the other the next day--the conclusion was that the calipers were dragging during the long down grade. One option discussed was a switch to lock out the surge brakes in this situation. I backed off slightly on those two calipers, and no more problems (had to change out a set of bearings). I completely rebuilt the brakes before I sold the boat--but the old calipers/discs were fine.
The hitch is buried in the garage, but I am quite sure it is the "Equalizer" Brand. As long as the chains allow unencumbered sliding of the coupler on the tongue, the surge brakes work fine. We worked with a hitch shop when we bought the unit. It does have the "pole tongue" adaptor, and an adjustable heavy duty hitch.
Yes, I had occasion to hit the brakes hard because of some idiot--and the surge brakes did the job. There are multiple factors in stopping--driving habits (I drive at a comfortable speed, usually below the speed limit, and about the same as most on the road trucks).--most of the time recently it is a 36,000 lb RV, towing either a 5500 lb SUV, the Caracal--about 2800 lbs, or the c Dory at about 5,000 lbs (close guess). Today most of our new vehicles have anti lock up breaking systems. So locking the brakes is not always the best way of stopping. E/H, E or surge can all lock up the trailer brakes in panic mode. (I also have the option of air brakes or air over hydraulic for the trailer when towing with the RV).
One of the secrets of successful long haul driving is being aware of what is at least a mile ahead, and not just what is in front of you. Also there are maps/books which tell the grades, and which routes to take/avoid.
If I was going to be driving the mountains all of the time--E/H, or electric (assumption that I would be using mostly fresh water). In Florida I am very comfortable with surge brakes (and we even have a few very small hills in S. Florida).
Absolutely, wash the brakes after every use. I carry a garden sprayer to do that with when there is no domestic water supply available.
Decision, decisions, I am currently down to two choices with the same capacity. A nice used Magic Tilt with 4 wheel discs on a surge system that would have to be adjusted to the CD 25 for $2300, or a brandy spankin new Sea-Tech with 4wheel Yukon cadmium salt water disc with electric over hydraulics and built for the CD 25 (They have built for CD 25 before). All SS fasteners with anti seize full equipped with heavy duty winch, walk on Aluminum fenders, spare and mount, etc for $4190. I love saving money but I'm leaning towards the new one. What do you folks think?
I can only give you my experience with Magic Tilt, which is a combination of good and bad. My boat came to me with an original equipment Magic Tilt trailer, so it was used, but had been originally set up and sold with my 22.
It looks to be a well made trailer (galvanized). It's welded together and tidily constructed. It tows beautifully. That's the good.
The bad is that when I came into possession of it (along with my boat), the boat had been stored indoors on a rack, so was in great shape. The trailer had basically never been used, but had been sitting outside, and needed some help. I rebuilt it all, with upgrades. During this process I needed some specific information of the Magic Tilt variety. I called Magic Tilt, and they informed me that they don't speak with customers, and I should contact a dealer. Okay, not my favorite response, but no problem, there are quite a few dealers locally. I contacted two of them. Neither was able to answer my specific question, but said they would contact Magic Tilt. Then they both said, essentially, "don't hold your breath."
Neither of them was ever able to get an answer (and it was not really a hard question). I contacted Magic Tilt again and asked if they would make an exception and help a customer, since I had already tried going through two of their dealers (one large/high volume; one smaller and more folksy). Nope, policy is policy.
Based on that, I would never buy a Magic Tilt trailer again. Like I said, it is made well and tows beautifully. However I think I could buy a different brand trailer that was made well, towed beautifully, AND the manufacturer would talk to me , if I needed it (ones that come to mind are EZ Loader and Pacific).
Of course, you may never need to talk to Magic Tilt directly, and if so you'll just have the other benefits without any perceptible hassle. Or you may find a dealer who can help you just fine (mine were happy to help but just didn't know the specific spec answer to my question). I have since heard that Wefing's is a Magic Tilt dealer, and they are also a C-Dory dealer, so maybe that would be a good solution.
I have never had an aluminum trailer, but the first thing on my mind if I were going to use it in a salt water environment is how do they isolate the metals (aluminum and stainless, for example)? I presume they must do so somehow (?).
It looks to be a well made trailer (galvanized). It's welded together and tidily constructed. It tows beautifully. That's the good.
The bad is that when I came into possession of it (along with my boat), the boat had been stored indoors on a rack, so was in great shape. The trailer had basically never been used, but had been sitting outside, and needed some help. I rebuilt it all, with upgrades. During this process I needed some specific information of the Magic Tilt variety. I called Magic Tilt, and they informed me that they don't speak with customers, and I should contact a dealer. Okay, not my favorite response, but no problem, there are quite a few dealers locally. I contacted two of them. Neither was able to answer my specific question, but said they would contact Magic Tilt. Then they both said, essentially, "don't hold your breath."
Neither of them was ever able to get an answer (and it was not really a hard question). I contacted Magic Tilt again and asked if they would make an exception and help a customer, since I had already tried going through two of their dealers (one large/high volume; one smaller and more folksy). Nope, policy is policy.
Based on that, I would never buy a Magic Tilt trailer again. Like I said, it is made well and tows beautifully. However I think I could buy a different brand trailer that was made well, towed beautifully, AND the manufacturer would talk to me , if I needed it (ones that come to mind are EZ Loader and Pacific).
Of course, you may never need to talk to Magic Tilt directly, and if so you'll just have the other benefits without any perceptible hassle. Or you may find a dealer who can help you just fine (mine were happy to help but just didn't know the specific spec answer to my question). I have since heard that Wefing's is a Magic Tilt dealer, and they are also a C-Dory dealer, so maybe that would be a good solution.
I have never had an aluminum trailer, but the first thing on my mind if I were going to use it in a salt water environment is how do they isolate the metals (aluminum and stainless, for example)? I presume they must do so somehow (?).
For the most part SS fittings are not isolated from the aluminum in the trailers I have seen and owned. Although it could be down, I suspect it would be both expensive, and difficult to do--and any insulation could break down easily. The trailer I bought is 14 years old--very respected builder in the South--the SS fittings are not isolated from the aluminum frame, and I don't see any significant problem.
Alexander--are you sure that the Disc brakes are Yukon? Kodiak is the usual disc brake manufacture. (as well as Tie Down UFP and Titan. A google search shows up Yukon--as for the GM SUV. This does not mean that there is a company who calls their disc brakes "Yukon". The Kodiak trailer brakes have an excellent reputation.
The $2100 is a good price on the used trailer--what is the rated capacity of the trailer--and how well will it fit the C Dory 25. You have to do some measurements.
On the other hand--$4300 is an excellent price on a new trailer with E/H brakes.
The C Dory 25 usually barely fits between fenders of most trailers--so guide on/side bunks are almost a necessity.
How old are the tires on the used trailer. Are the brakes on the used trailer working well? Is there a spare and mount on the used trailer--how about the winch strap? Are the fenders "walk on" on the used Magic Tilt? Adding items or rebuilding the trailer can add up before long, you could be at the cost of the new trailer. I would be tempted to buy the new trailer, and would want a capacity of at least 8,000 lbs--better yet is 8,500 to 9,000 lbs capacity. Is the "capacity" including the trailer weight plus boat weight--or the carrying capacity of the boat?
Another factor that on the used trailer, you may have to adjust the position of the axles to get the correct tongue weight--and the new one, they should set it up correctly.
Alexander--are you sure that the Disc brakes are Yukon? Kodiak is the usual disc brake manufacture. (as well as Tie Down UFP and Titan. A google search shows up Yukon--as for the GM SUV. This does not mean that there is a company who calls their disc brakes "Yukon". The Kodiak trailer brakes have an excellent reputation.
The $2100 is a good price on the used trailer--what is the rated capacity of the trailer--and how well will it fit the C Dory 25. You have to do some measurements.
On the other hand--$4300 is an excellent price on a new trailer with E/H brakes.
The C Dory 25 usually barely fits between fenders of most trailers--so guide on/side bunks are almost a necessity.
How old are the tires on the used trailer. Are the brakes on the used trailer working well? Is there a spare and mount on the used trailer--how about the winch strap? Are the fenders "walk on" on the used Magic Tilt? Adding items or rebuilding the trailer can add up before long, you could be at the cost of the new trailer. I would be tempted to buy the new trailer, and would want a capacity of at least 8,000 lbs--better yet is 8,500 to 9,000 lbs capacity. Is the "capacity" including the trailer weight plus boat weight--or the carrying capacity of the boat?
Another factor that on the used trailer, you may have to adjust the position of the axles to get the correct tongue weight--and the new one, they should set it up correctly.
Sunbeam":dwl3wdo5 said:
Pardon the tangent, but I want to clarify something. I had a PM asking me if I did actually rebuild the trailer myself or if I had help. I didn't mean to deceive anyone, but really just wanted to keep the focus on the thread question vs. go into my saga.
At any rate, when I bought the trailer, I had no trailer repair experience, and my tools and shop were a thousand miles away. So I got a good shop recommendation and took it there for the works. As it turned out, pretty much everything they did required re-doing (some on the roadside (by me as I was the only one there!), and some at various shops I limped in to along the way as I took my first cross-country trip with it). I also did some projects myself (on purpose) in that initial time period. At the "limp-in" shops, I worked with the techs about 50/50 on average, as we figured out what had been done wrong and how to fix it (some of these were shops, but didn't have a lot of boat-trailer specific experience, so we had to noodle a bit).
Since then, I've done quite a few more upgrades, and those I've done on my own.
So really, it's a bit of a combination. I *tried* to have someone else do the work, but it didn't end up working out that way. I guess to the good, I now do have trailer work experience :wink: And I've learned that trailers are fairly basic, in a way (basically a collection of parts and pieces). But even now, there are things like having tires installed and balanced, that I don't technically do "myself."
At any rate, wasn't trying to mislead anyone and make it sound like I was a super mechanic.
Thanks for catching my mental overlap. I've been looking at tow vehicles too long and the names are blurred in my mind. It is Kodiak brakes not Yukon. I've included the link to the builder below in case it would be helpful to another owner.
http://www.seatechtrailers.com/
http://www.seatechtrailers.com/
Alexander,
The reason I asked about Kodiak, vs Yukon, is that there are some trailer builders, who may substitute cheap Chinese junk--and since I had not heard of "Yukon" brakes, I wanted to be sure that you are getting a quality product. Kodiak is a quality product. You are fine.
As I noted before, there are many trailer builders--most of whom buy the metal extrusions, already preformed, get each piece and put the whole thing together. Others are a bit more specific in their needs, and will make and weld up the parts which they need--often on a custom basis.
One of the resources I use is "The Hull Truth"--sure there is some junk, and off the wall posting there, but there are also a lot of very knowledgable folks, many of who live in S. Florida.
I did a quick search of SeaTech--they are a bunch of guys who worked for American Trailer. Most trailer shops just assemble pieces--with some exceptions. SeaTech seems to have a good reputation.
Here are links to 3 threads.
http://www.thehulltruth.com/archive/t-578314.html
http://www.thehulltruth.com/trucks-trai ... ers.html#b
http://www.thehulltruth.com/trucks-trai ... ilers.html
I would not hesitate to buy a trailer based on what is noted here. Look for short cuts--for example, I want a specific ground to each light--not just using the trailer ground. I would want the E/H unit raised to it would not get in the water. I would want a low yield strength locktite on the SS bolts.
The only criticism I saw was they did not put radial tires on the trailers. If you want some specific tires, it might cost more,or you might have to get them elsewhere.
On the trailer I bought this summer, it had old tires--and they were smaller than the tires on the trailer which failed (new radials)…So I accepted the new tires they had--and if they wear badly, or there are issues, I will buy new ones which I want. But I was on a time schedule, and there was a lot of convience involved.
Yes, I think that LED trailer lights are the only way to go currently. I also carry extra lights and wiring in the truck, just in case. I also carry a jack, blocks, material to rework the bearing races, and spindles if necessary--as well as a full set of bearings and seals. (I also carried at least one extra hub on some of the bigger trailers. With putting brakes on the trailer, I will be putting on all new hubs, and will keep one or two as "back ups" to get me to a place where I could buy new ones, if I had an unlikely failure.
Good luck with your purchase.
The reason I asked about Kodiak, vs Yukon, is that there are some trailer builders, who may substitute cheap Chinese junk--and since I had not heard of "Yukon" brakes, I wanted to be sure that you are getting a quality product. Kodiak is a quality product. You are fine.
As I noted before, there are many trailer builders--most of whom buy the metal extrusions, already preformed, get each piece and put the whole thing together. Others are a bit more specific in their needs, and will make and weld up the parts which they need--often on a custom basis.
One of the resources I use is "The Hull Truth"--sure there is some junk, and off the wall posting there, but there are also a lot of very knowledgable folks, many of who live in S. Florida.
I did a quick search of SeaTech--they are a bunch of guys who worked for American Trailer. Most trailer shops just assemble pieces--with some exceptions. SeaTech seems to have a good reputation.
Here are links to 3 threads.
http://www.thehulltruth.com/archive/t-578314.html
http://www.thehulltruth.com/trucks-trai ... ers.html#b
http://www.thehulltruth.com/trucks-trai ... ilers.html
I would not hesitate to buy a trailer based on what is noted here. Look for short cuts--for example, I want a specific ground to each light--not just using the trailer ground. I would want the E/H unit raised to it would not get in the water. I would want a low yield strength locktite on the SS bolts.
The only criticism I saw was they did not put radial tires on the trailers. If you want some specific tires, it might cost more,or you might have to get them elsewhere.
On the trailer I bought this summer, it had old tires--and they were smaller than the tires on the trailer which failed (new radials)…So I accepted the new tires they had--and if they wear badly, or there are issues, I will buy new ones which I want. But I was on a time schedule, and there was a lot of convience involved.
Yes, I think that LED trailer lights are the only way to go currently. I also carry extra lights and wiring in the truck, just in case. I also carry a jack, blocks, material to rework the bearing races, and spindles if necessary--as well as a full set of bearings and seals. (I also carried at least one extra hub on some of the bigger trailers. With putting brakes on the trailer, I will be putting on all new hubs, and will keep one or two as "back ups" to get me to a place where I could buy new ones, if I had an unlikely failure.
Good luck with your purchase.
Thanks Bob, The links you sent were very helpful. I look at Hull Truth frequently but neglected to think of it in this case. Do you think I could get a couple of years good use out of the non-radials ? We used to use nothing else and somehow we got by. Also , I did ask about anti seize on all fasteners (SS) and Bruce said it was standard practice. As far as the width of the hull between the fenders issue that someone brought up, this company has already built trailers for CD 25 so I think they have that handled. I will try to enclose some of the CD 25 pics on their trailer they sent me later. I can't find the email they were in right now.
I would say that of boat trailers I have owned thru the years (over 55 years)--I can recollect only one trailer with radials. The ST bias will do fine. If you find that there is some abnormal wear, with the trailer level, then trying radials would be the next step. Chances are that the tires will date time out. Tire date starts from the day they are manufactured--not when you put them on the trailer--and most of us change at 5 to 6 years. I was very fortunate to get a set of Michelin tires thru a "Progam" which were only 3 weeks old by date stamps for my RV this spring. It is not unusual to find tires at "manufactures" which are a year or more old. Probably not so important if you are driving slowly, and only going to the ramp--than if you are doing freeway speeds across the country.