Heaters
- Thread starter Izzy
- Start date
Izzy":35uu7a0n said:
I removed the ice box & put a Planar (Russian) diesel heater in.
Guy in Palmer sells them. WAY less complicated than espar or webasto, WAY less maintenance!! After 1500 hrs on mine I took it apart out of guilt, removed/wire brushed a teaspoon of soot out, good for another 1500-2000 hrs :thup
colbysmith
Active member
I mounted a Webasto Heater in my Midnight Flyer. You can link over to the photo album and look for a nested album in regards to the heater install. It's a great little heater. In fact, I just ordered another one for the new to us, C-Traveler. For my install, I ordered the parts from 3 different companies as listed below. Colby
Scan Marine - Fuel tank & feed system - 367215 and 2027
Sure Marine - Exhaust insulation blanket - W001-434
- Mounting bracket - W005-216
- Exhaust thru hull - W002_170Nut
Ebay - Webasto Air Top 2000 STC Diesel Heater
Total cost about $1100.
Scan Marine - Fuel tank & feed system - 367215 and 2027
Sure Marine - Exhaust insulation blanket - W001-434
- Mounting bracket - W005-216
- Exhaust thru hull - W002_170Nut
Ebay - Webasto Air Top 2000 STC Diesel Heater
Total cost about $1100.
T.R. Bauer
New member
I have a wallas cooktop and it's warm enough most of the time with its 6500 BTUs. I concede though, it isn't the best furnace or the best stove, but it does do both pretty well and doesn't take up lots of space. To supplement heat, which happens when it's really cold, I turn on my Buddy Heater and then it is just plain hot in the cabin with both going.
Marco Flamingo
Active member
I put in the littlest Espar in my CD 16 (in photo album). More than enough heat, in fact it will cycle completely off because even at the lowest setting it gets too warm in the dinky 16 cabin. That isn't great because it then needs to use the glow plug again to reignite, which uses way more electricity and fuel than if it could just reduce to idle. And it was $650 by the time I had all the necessary parts.
My new boat had an older Webasto 11 KW heater. When it cycled off it generally would not reignite without throwing the circuit breaker (Note: don't wire diesel heaters through a circuit breaker). The only part still readily available for it was the glow plug, and those are over $100. Time to replace. I was able to reuse the exhaust through-hull and some of the duct work, which saved a lot of time. And I quickly got $70 for it when sold for parts.
I replaced it with a Chinese model for $100. It has worked fantastic, although I've only used it for 30 hours. If you buy one of these, look closely at what comes with it. There are many options and you have to decide what gets you closest to what you need. Otherwise, you will spend a lot on little things like extra ducting, registers, or a remote control. https://www.ebay.com/itm/WARMTOO-8KW-12 ... 2749.l2649
I got one with a remote control. I can now turn it on from the V berth. It has way more heating options than the old Webasto, including turning on at 6 o'clock every morning (not used as the remote is in the V berth), timed cycles, heat output limitations (whether max temp is reached fast or slow) and probably other stuff. The operation manual is comical in it's attempt to describe how to use the thing. How expensive could it be to have a native English speaker write the manual? I had to go on YouTube and find one of the several explanations of all of the various heating options. After reducing the maximum heat output, I mainly just use the little remote fob on/off and heat up/down.
It is only 8 KW but I haven't noticed any difference, probably because I added two more heat registers, one in the head and one in the V berth. The Webasto was set up only to put air into the main cabin. The new duct to the V berth is quite long and through unconditioned space so I was concerned that it would cool off too much and not provide heat that far away (the included duct work is not insulated). Since it was a straight run beginning about 5 feet from the heater, I used "pool noodle" 3 inch foam pipe insulation for that duct. No heat loss through that 8 feet. The entire boat is now evenly heated. I've only tried it in 40 degree weather, but I think it will do just fine in the snow.
Mark
My new boat had an older Webasto 11 KW heater. When it cycled off it generally would not reignite without throwing the circuit breaker (Note: don't wire diesel heaters through a circuit breaker). The only part still readily available for it was the glow plug, and those are over $100. Time to replace. I was able to reuse the exhaust through-hull and some of the duct work, which saved a lot of time. And I quickly got $70 for it when sold for parts.
I replaced it with a Chinese model for $100. It has worked fantastic, although I've only used it for 30 hours. If you buy one of these, look closely at what comes with it. There are many options and you have to decide what gets you closest to what you need. Otherwise, you will spend a lot on little things like extra ducting, registers, or a remote control. https://www.ebay.com/itm/WARMTOO-8KW-12 ... 2749.l2649
I got one with a remote control. I can now turn it on from the V berth. It has way more heating options than the old Webasto, including turning on at 6 o'clock every morning (not used as the remote is in the V berth), timed cycles, heat output limitations (whether max temp is reached fast or slow) and probably other stuff. The operation manual is comical in it's attempt to describe how to use the thing. How expensive could it be to have a native English speaker write the manual? I had to go on YouTube and find one of the several explanations of all of the various heating options. After reducing the maximum heat output, I mainly just use the little remote fob on/off and heat up/down.
It is only 8 KW but I haven't noticed any difference, probably because I added two more heat registers, one in the head and one in the V berth. The Webasto was set up only to put air into the main cabin. The new duct to the V berth is quite long and through unconditioned space so I was concerned that it would cool off too much and not provide heat that far away (the included duct work is not insulated). Since it was a straight run beginning about 5 feet from the heater, I used "pool noodle" 3 inch foam pipe insulation for that duct. No heat loss through that 8 feet. The entire boat is now evenly heated. I've only tried it in 40 degree weather, but I think it will do just fine in the snow.
Mark
colbysmith":2cbxyggu said:
FWIW, a random Google search shows you can get the Webasto Air Top 2000 STC Diesel Heater from here for $744. Some accessories will add a little bit to that price.
https://www.heatso.com/webasto-air-top- ... gIcj_D_BwE
colbysmith
Active member
I actually found my Webasto two days ago at an ebay seller for $683. That was about the best price. Several years ago I paid about 800 or so for it. However, it's the rest of the stuff that adds up quickly. The fuel tank with hoses and filter is $115, but then shipping added another $29. The exhaust thru hull is $147, 1' of insulating jacket that wraps around the exhaust pipe is $21 and I bought 3' just to make sure I had enough. The bracket, which one could probably make cheaper, but just makes installation a lot easier, was $51. Total cost $260 + $21 shipping. If you live in Washington near Sure and Scan Marine, you could save $50 on shipping. When I installed the Webasto in Midnight Flyer, I spent a lot of time tracking down everything I would need. I don't know if you can find the extra stuff for less at other dealers, but I didn't then, so I just used the same shops to buy that stuff again this time. You can find the Webasto Heater easily and just chose your cheapest seller. However, this is not a marine unit. You can just about double your expense by buying a marine kit thru a marine outfitter, and then you would get everything you need.
Regarding the Wallis, my wife and I discussed that stove/heater and I have discussed the Wallis with several other boaters. From what I understand the Wallis runs all the time if you use it. You can turn it on low or high or anywhere in between. However, it doesn't kick on and off like the Webasto or a regular furnace, to maintain temperature. So you could end up overheating, or not having enough heat. Most C-Brats I know that have a wallis say they turn it off going to bed, then turn it back on to take the chill out of the boat first thing in the morning. The only thing I don't like about the Webasto, is it is kind of loud. Like a mini jet engine firing up. But it puts out the heat when you boat in some really cold temps. I used it boaterhoming home a few years ago, where the outside temp got down to 18 degrees at night. I still woke up with 60 degrees in the boat. I only had one time where the Webasto stopped working and gave me an error code. It was during that same trip, and I don't know if the fuel had some moisture in it or not. But after shaking the tank a little, moving the pickup tube, and attempting to restart it several times, it finally lit off. The next day I dumped some "heat" additive in it, and didn't have any other problems. The other reason we decided not to go with the Wallis is my wife wants her countertop space. And a brand new Wallis is $2800. So, not putting Wallis down. It's just that the Webasto serves our purpose much better.
Alsp there are some really cheap Chinese knockoff units out there, and I know at least one C- Brat that bought one and installed it and I think it worked well for them. I asked our mechanic at the school bus garage about the units. He use to service semis, and stated the Webasto's were solid units that held up very well, and that I should stick with that rather than going to a knock off.
Colby
Regarding the Wallis, my wife and I discussed that stove/heater and I have discussed the Wallis with several other boaters. From what I understand the Wallis runs all the time if you use it. You can turn it on low or high or anywhere in between. However, it doesn't kick on and off like the Webasto or a regular furnace, to maintain temperature. So you could end up overheating, or not having enough heat. Most C-Brats I know that have a wallis say they turn it off going to bed, then turn it back on to take the chill out of the boat first thing in the morning. The only thing I don't like about the Webasto, is it is kind of loud. Like a mini jet engine firing up. But it puts out the heat when you boat in some really cold temps. I used it boaterhoming home a few years ago, where the outside temp got down to 18 degrees at night. I still woke up with 60 degrees in the boat. I only had one time where the Webasto stopped working and gave me an error code. It was during that same trip, and I don't know if the fuel had some moisture in it or not. But after shaking the tank a little, moving the pickup tube, and attempting to restart it several times, it finally lit off. The next day I dumped some "heat" additive in it, and didn't have any other problems. The other reason we decided not to go with the Wallis is my wife wants her countertop space. And a brand new Wallis is $2800. So, not putting Wallis down. It's just that the Webasto serves our purpose much better.
Alsp there are some really cheap Chinese knockoff units out there, and I know at least one C- Brat that bought one and installed it and I think it worked well for them. I asked our mechanic at the school bus garage about the units. He use to service semis, and stated the Webasto's were solid units that held up very well, and that I should stick with that rather than going to a knock off.
Colby
Marco Flamingo
Active member
Ssobol,
Your link is to a gasoline (petrol) heater. I couldn't find anywhere that gasoline fired heaters met USCG requirements, probably because people wouldn't think to blow the bilge before using the heater.
I had a heater in a old petrol Mercedes where one could set it to come on every morning so that the car was warm (including the engine oil). Probably fine except that my car was in a garage under my bedroom. I was afraid to ever use it. I thought about ordering a gasoline heater for the Limpet with its open cockpit, but for the amount of diesel that these use the small tanks are good for weeks of heating.
The reason that I said not to run these through a circuit breaker and only use the provided inline fuse is because the have a necessary cool down cycle. A fancy little electrical panel is inside the heater unit. If somebody simply throws a circuit breaker, the fan stops and the residual heat in the heat exchanger melts the cover and circuit board. You can buy Chinese knockoff boards on Ebay, but probably only work (maybe) on the knockoff units. I don't know about the cost of replacement boards for the big name brands.
Mark
Your link is to a gasoline (petrol) heater. I couldn't find anywhere that gasoline fired heaters met USCG requirements, probably because people wouldn't think to blow the bilge before using the heater.
I had a heater in a old petrol Mercedes where one could set it to come on every morning so that the car was warm (including the engine oil). Probably fine except that my car was in a garage under my bedroom. I was afraid to ever use it. I thought about ordering a gasoline heater for the Limpet with its open cockpit, but for the amount of diesel that these use the small tanks are good for weeks of heating.
The reason that I said not to run these through a circuit breaker and only use the provided inline fuse is because the have a necessary cool down cycle. A fancy little electrical panel is inside the heater unit. If somebody simply throws a circuit breaker, the fan stops and the residual heat in the heat exchanger melts the cover and circuit board. You can buy Chinese knockoff boards on Ebay, but probably only work (maybe) on the knockoff units. I don't know about the cost of replacement boards for the big name brands.
Mark
Here is another vote for the Espar or Webasto heaters.
I got a used Espar heater that had been removed from a truck. Kind of expensive - it cost me two half racks of Mexican beer (fortunately not Corona) for the stove and controller plus a few hundred bucks for all the ducting, exhaust and fuel pump. Still way cheaper than one trip to the Wallas repair shop.
I used the Wallas for 15 years, and it was 8 years old when I got the boat, so it served me well but it made a few trips to the repair shop so it was pretty costly in the long run. It was nice, and worked as both a heater and a stove. But now that we have the induction cooktop and the ducted, thermostat controlled, forced air heater I would never consider going back to the Wallas.
The Espar is installed under the galley counter. That is where the thru hull exhaust fitting for the Wallas already was so there wondering about some other place to put it. You really do not need a lot of room for the heater, but the exhaust tubing needs to have planty of air space around it. Mounting under the counter worked well for me, and I was able to get it low enough to let me use the hole in the countertop for a resessed mounting spot for the induction cooker.
I got a used Espar heater that had been removed from a truck. Kind of expensive - it cost me two half racks of Mexican beer (fortunately not Corona) for the stove and controller plus a few hundred bucks for all the ducting, exhaust and fuel pump. Still way cheaper than one trip to the Wallas repair shop.
I used the Wallas for 15 years, and it was 8 years old when I got the boat, so it served me well but it made a few trips to the repair shop so it was pretty costly in the long run. It was nice, and worked as both a heater and a stove. But now that we have the induction cooktop and the ducted, thermostat controlled, forced air heater I would never consider going back to the Wallas.
The Espar is installed under the galley counter. That is where the thru hull exhaust fitting for the Wallas already was so there wondering about some other place to put it. You really do not need a lot of room for the heater, but the exhaust tubing needs to have planty of air space around it. Mounting under the counter worked well for me, and I was able to get it low enough to let me use the hole in the countertop for a resessed mounting spot for the induction cooker.
colbysmith
Active member
I don't remember anything in the Webasto manual about elevation. I know it works going thru the Rockies. 
Peter & Judy
New member
I installed a Wabasto under my counter last year. Due to covid travel restrictions I have not tested in real life on the water situations yet. In test mode at home it works well.
I bought mine as a complete kit from Cummins in Calgary. I did have to buy a through hull exhaust port from a marine dealer.
I bought mine as a complete kit from Cummins in Calgary. I did have to buy a through hull exhaust port from a marine dealer.
colbysmith
Active member
I initially bought mine thru Amazon for a great price. It turned out to be a Russian seller and after 2 months I gave up waiting and went through Cummins here in the states. Good outfit with fast shipping and rates were competitive with other North American companies. Thru-Hull and fuel tank purchased as I posted earlier.
I installed a Webasto under the galley this winter and have used it for about 6 nights so far this spring and am very happy with it. It uses very little fuel and does not drain the house if it is on all night. It does a good job maintaining a set temperature. I ran two vents out to the rear bulkhead so we can heat the cockpit with the canvas deployed or partially deployed and this works great too. I routed one hose under the shower to the rear bulkhead. An unintended consequence if this was that now I have a heated shower floor when it is running! Haha. The timer function is very handy too. All good so far.
PaulNBriannaLynn
New member
We're in the market for a new heat solution since our Wallas took a dump again and I'm finally tired of messing with it.
I talked to a couple of full time houseboat folks on the St John river on our spring trip, and seemed the trend is installing these inexpensive Chinese cab heaters on Amazon. Apparently the one to get is not the one that looks like the espar or webesto, but the ones built inside a box that looks like a small desktop computer. It's easier to mount and get set up is what I was told. 1000s of hours these folks are putting on these without much trouble.
The price is definitely right, and much of the installation process for me is already done with the exhaust routed and battery wiring from the old Wallace I'll remove. I plan to get one ordered and install before next winter. Great cruising with perfect daytime temps in winter where we live, but cold nights. Wallace trouble ruined a good thing this last winter for us.
I talked to a couple of full time houseboat folks on the St John river on our spring trip, and seemed the trend is installing these inexpensive Chinese cab heaters on Amazon. Apparently the one to get is not the one that looks like the espar or webesto, but the ones built inside a box that looks like a small desktop computer. It's easier to mount and get set up is what I was told. 1000s of hours these folks are putting on these without much trouble.
The price is definitely right, and much of the installation process for me is already done with the exhaust routed and battery wiring from the old Wallace I'll remove. I plan to get one ordered and install before next winter. Great cruising with perfect daytime temps in winter where we live, but cold nights. Wallace trouble ruined a good thing this last winter for us.
Seems that is basically a Webesto heater in a box. Primary difference is the control method.
Amazon has a bunch of them (just a few samples):
https://www.amazon.com/Happybuy-Control ... 196&sr=8-4
https://www.amazon.com/VEVOR-Parking-Co ... 196&sr=8-6
https://www.amazon.com/IMAYCC-Diesel-He ... 96&sr=8-11
There is a Facebook group for Chinese heaters. One thing I read is that the muffler may not be air tight. You need to get a different one or have the one you get welded up completely.
Amazon has a bunch of them (just a few samples):
https://www.amazon.com/Happybuy-Control ... 196&sr=8-4
https://www.amazon.com/VEVOR-Parking-Co ... 196&sr=8-6
https://www.amazon.com/IMAYCC-Diesel-He ... 96&sr=8-11
There is a Facebook group for Chinese heaters. One thing I read is that the muffler may not be air tight. You need to get a different one or have the one you get welded up completely.
PaulNBriannaLynn
New member
ssobol":2ejq8vj1 said:
Yes those are the ones. I spent so much money and time purchasing and installing our used Wallas pulled from another boat, and had tons of issues with it..... how bad could one of these $150 units be? I may end up just getting a espar or wabesto unit, but if I do bite the bullet and install one of these, i'll write up something for the brats here on it.