Greetings! I'm curious as to the general C-Brat consensus re: homeland security/USCG's new call for boaters to carry ID while boating, and the future requirement that boaters take a boating class and carry their (permanent, non-expiring) boater's course ID? I'm personally in favor of both. Anything to increase boater safety and responsible behavior is great IMHO. We all know that ignorance and violation of "the rules" carries potentially dire consequences for boaters. Also, we're being asked to be the "eyes and ears" of the USCG to identify suspicious activity. This is a civic duty that we C-Brats are well suited for given our inclination to proceed slowly and pay attention to details. I don't view these directives as burdensome, or a violation of my civil liberties, but rather an opportunity for my boating to be of some service to others. What are your thoughts? Mike.
Homeland security mandates
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Mike-
I can see your point of view, and in the long run those changes will probably come to pass, considering social and political trends.
No argument about loyalty or civil duty, but there will be resistance to regimentation!
Boating is one relatively unregulated area where folks have a chance to go out and relax without excessive regulation and the rigid enforcement of rules just for rules sake!
Who needs further restrictions on their own personal freedoms and liberties?
Not that I'm against boating safety, personal responsibility (and identification), nor anti-terrorism, nor anything else that can be viewed as being supported by such regulations.
But I do know that much of boating community will resist this vehemently as a unwelcome restriction on our favorite hobby which we have so ferverently undertaken and enjoyed because of its basic relaxing and freedom giving nature.
What's next? Barcodes on our bows?
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The above well may be overstated, but that's how many folks will feel about this new development!
Wait until you hear from Oldgrowth Dave!
Cheers!
Joe. :teeth
I can see your point of view, and in the long run those changes will probably come to pass, considering social and political trends.
No argument about loyalty or civil duty, but there will be resistance to regimentation!
Boating is one relatively unregulated area where folks have a chance to go out and relax without excessive regulation and the rigid enforcement of rules just for rules sake!
Who needs further restrictions on their own personal freedoms and liberties?
Not that I'm against boating safety, personal responsibility (and identification), nor anti-terrorism, nor anything else that can be viewed as being supported by such regulations.
But I do know that much of boating community will resist this vehemently as a unwelcome restriction on our favorite hobby which we have so ferverently undertaken and enjoyed because of its basic relaxing and freedom giving nature.
What's next? Barcodes on our bows?
*******************************************************************************
The above well may be overstated, but that's how many folks will feel about this new development!
Wait until you hear from Oldgrowth Dave!
Cheers!
Joe. :teeth
I wish that education and license would solve the boating worlds problems. It does expose some to the rules, who might ignore them otherwise. But when you look at some of the bad collisions and which have resulted in deaths in the last year, you find law enforcement officers, marina owners, dealers etc involved, all people who "knew better".
I do believe that boaters have a role to play in reporting suspicious activity--and that the threat to commercial shipping from a small boat in an terrorist attack is real.
Most states require that you have some form of ID when boating (driver's license) and many states now have manditory boater education. So I don't see a lot of changes. But I do agree with Joe, please don't take my freedoms away. On the other hand, I will be one of the first to get AIS-B when it is available--as a safety precaution. If I was boating in Puget Sound area--I would really want to be "seen" by all forms of boating and commercial shipping.
I do believe that boaters have a role to play in reporting suspicious activity--and that the threat to commercial shipping from a small boat in an terrorist attack is real.
Most states require that you have some form of ID when boating (driver's license) and many states now have manditory boater education. So I don't see a lot of changes. But I do agree with Joe, please don't take my freedoms away. On the other hand, I will be one of the first to get AIS-B when it is available--as a safety precaution. If I was boating in Puget Sound area--I would really want to be "seen" by all forms of boating and commercial shipping.
RJD Wannabe
New member
Yes to boating safety and education
No to yet another unfunded and unenforced mandate. Way to few law enforcement and other type officials dealing with boating safety, especially here in Calif.
No to yet another unfunded and unenforced mandate. Way to few law enforcement and other type officials dealing with boating safety, especially here in Calif.
Wandering Sagebrush
Free Range Human
Here in Oregon we are required to have a "Boater Education Card" when operating anything with 10 horse or greater. I don't see this as an issue, but the reason I suspect we are required to have it is because of the folks out of control on PWCs.
I know Boating Education is important....But I REALLY do not like the government tell me what I have to do..... or boarding me .... it really angers me.... I feel it is an invasion of my privacy...
This country has just too many rules... to many people keepin track of what I do.... what I own... and how I choose to live my life...everywhere you go, every call you make,every e-mail you send.....
I don't break laws...heck I don't even speed... but someone stopping me and checking my boat really burns me.... Must be the ole Navy Chief in me....I don't like to be told what to do on my time.....in my house,...or on my boat.
Grandma Git the gun....it's dem G men !!
Joel
SEA3PO
This country has just too many rules... to many people keepin track of what I do.... what I own... and how I choose to live my life...everywhere you go, every call you make,every e-mail you send.....
I don't break laws...heck I don't even speed... but someone stopping me and checking my boat really burns me.... Must be the ole Navy Chief in me....I don't like to be told what to do on my time.....in my house,...or on my boat.
Grandma Git the gun....it's dem G men !!
Joel
SEA3PO
I'll take this opportunity to stir the pot some more cos I'm bored. In San Juan County PWC's are banned by law. This is an interesting case in point of the kind of thing we're discussing. Having a Summer home adjacent to a shallow, protected bay, I fully support the ban. Many no doubt feel this ban to be an unreasonable infringement on their "rights and freedoms", and they arguably have a point. The majority love to enjoy a quiet sunset or BBQ on or near the water free from the noise and gas/oil smell of the PWC's. Who knows where the truth lies? Mike.
journey on
New member
Joe, I'm proud of you.
We don't need more regulations in the name of patriotism. I feel boaters, taken as a whole are one of the most responsible groups in the US.
Boris
We don't need more regulations in the name of patriotism. I feel boaters, taken as a whole are one of the most responsible groups in the US.
Boris
al and judy
New member
Just last night I (successfully) completed the USCG Aux Boating and Seamanship course. I have been boating for years, but I would equate this class to a book I once read titled, "A few things I learned after I knew it all."
Many will, and several already have, taken issue with the "freedoms" part of this thread. To those who will and have taken issue let me remind you that our "freedoms" were forever altered on Sept. 11th 2001.
I am most greatful for the ever vigilant USCG and the Aux volunteers who sacrifice to help keep our coastline, harbors, rivers and ICW safe.
Understandibly the government cannot legislate morality let alone common sense, but God Bless all those who do their best to keep us safe from ourselves.
Many will, and several already have, taken issue with the "freedoms" part of this thread. To those who will and have taken issue let me remind you that our "freedoms" were forever altered on Sept. 11th 2001.
I am most greatful for the ever vigilant USCG and the Aux volunteers who sacrifice to help keep our coastline, harbors, rivers and ICW safe.
Understandibly the government cannot legislate morality let alone common sense, but God Bless all those who do their best to keep us safe from ourselves.
We've been boarded several times by the Coast Guard... I really don't have a problem with it, because it is within the scope of their mission. We live near a port that sees international ship traffic; since 9/11 the CG presence has increased, and we now see Homeland Security boats regularly. Recreational boats are no longer allowed in the port. It is not legal to tie up under a bridge. There are rules about how close you can be to ship traffic (we have no Navy ships that base here). Our world has changed.
In my opinion, manditory boater education would be a good thing. I don't think it will prevent stupidity on the water, but it would be nice to think that the boat coming at you is perhaps being operated by someone who has at least been exposed to the Rules of the Road.
I don't understand what the problem is with carrying ID while boating. Anytime I'm away from our house, I carry ID. If I should have some sort of a medical problem, I'd like my family to be notified. We also carry "In Case of Emergency" cards that have our vehicle/boat registration numbers (and descriptions) and our emergency contacts. If that card needs to be pulled out, there is likely a problem beyond "my rights".
My "freedoms" still allow me to go where and when I want with our boats and vehicles... an ID or emergency contact card in my pocket doesn't change that. Maybe we travel in different circles than Boris, but we've seen every manner of "stupid boater tricks" out on the water... big boats, little boats, power, sail, paddle. I certainly don't mean to imply that it's the majority of boaters, or even a big percentage. But, the ignorant are out there, and their lack of knowledge can be hazardous to your health.
Someone will probably pull out the "stupid people drive cars, too" position. Would you feel safer on the road if states didn't require a driver's license? Education and licensing won't eliminate stupidity, but it may help ignorance.
This summer while at Yellowstone, I watched a constant parade of people renting small powerboats... with a blatantly obvious lack of boating knowledge. If you rent a car, you have to show a driver's license... at least some proof that at one time you knew enough to be able to pass a test.
I think we can have education and enforcement without it being an assault on our freedoms.
Best wishes,
Jim B. (with a captain's license that required a background check, personal references, fingerprinting, and a drug test, as well as passing a rather thorough test for marine knowledge)
In my opinion, manditory boater education would be a good thing. I don't think it will prevent stupidity on the water, but it would be nice to think that the boat coming at you is perhaps being operated by someone who has at least been exposed to the Rules of the Road.
I don't understand what the problem is with carrying ID while boating. Anytime I'm away from our house, I carry ID. If I should have some sort of a medical problem, I'd like my family to be notified. We also carry "In Case of Emergency" cards that have our vehicle/boat registration numbers (and descriptions) and our emergency contacts. If that card needs to be pulled out, there is likely a problem beyond "my rights".
My "freedoms" still allow me to go where and when I want with our boats and vehicles... an ID or emergency contact card in my pocket doesn't change that. Maybe we travel in different circles than Boris, but we've seen every manner of "stupid boater tricks" out on the water... big boats, little boats, power, sail, paddle. I certainly don't mean to imply that it's the majority of boaters, or even a big percentage. But, the ignorant are out there, and their lack of knowledge can be hazardous to your health.
Someone will probably pull out the "stupid people drive cars, too" position. Would you feel safer on the road if states didn't require a driver's license? Education and licensing won't eliminate stupidity, but it may help ignorance.
This summer while at Yellowstone, I watched a constant parade of people renting small powerboats... with a blatantly obvious lack of boating knowledge. If you rent a car, you have to show a driver's license... at least some proof that at one time you knew enough to be able to pass a test.
I think we can have education and enforcement without it being an assault on our freedoms.
Best wishes,
Jim B. (with a captain's license that required a background check, personal references, fingerprinting, and a drug test, as well as passing a rather thorough test for marine knowledge)
journey on":2twgi9wv said:
Exactly,
As a Law Abiding Common Sense U.S. Citizen you are supposed to report suspicious / illegal activity!! Us who are Responsible will remain so & the head in the sand dickweeds will remain as they are also. As with gun laws, they only apply to us law abiding Citizens
:beer :amgry :amgry
If everyone was a decent as the average C-Brat, we wouldn't need any laws, rules or regulations. Alas, there's the way the world should be and the way the world is. Unfortunately, we must live in the latter. Heck, in the world we live in, I think we should require education and licenses to breed. Every night I drive home, I see many, many drivers that make a strong case for retroactive abortion..... :wink:
starcrafttom
Active member
education is always a good start but not a cure, case in point , drive any highway in the world. Its true that most people are good about the rules but it only takes a few to screw it up for all. takes pwc for example, they have a bad rap because of the few. but before pwc came along it was the go fast boats everyone bagged on. I hate skiers becasue of a few I have had bad run ins with. I did not know that San Juan county had a band because I see them all the time in the islands.
Heres a story aobut a trail that all used at one time and no one used today. this trail goes around part of a northen californa lake and every users group onced used it. hikers, bikes motor bikes and horses. well the hikes and the bikes and horses did not like the smelly motorbikes so the banded together and got the motorbikes baned. then the hikes and the bikes got the horses banned . then the hikers got the bikes kicked out for tearing up the trail. then the hikes got kicked out by another group that want it to be a protected trail that required a guide and a permit. now no one goes there and that was the point. there is aalways someone who beleives that you are doing the wrong thing and should be band for doing it. I never vote for bands becasue I could be next. if some one rides a pwc dangeorsly then go after them and hold them personnaly resposiabley for their actions not me for having a pwc. there are group out there right now that are trying to get boats band from the puget sound. Just this year they tried to get a 5 mph limit on the whole sound and failed but they will try again
there are two types of people in the world those, those that want to control your actions and those that have no such desire.. the later make better neighbors.
Heres a story aobut a trail that all used at one time and no one used today. this trail goes around part of a northen californa lake and every users group onced used it. hikers, bikes motor bikes and horses. well the hikes and the bikes and horses did not like the smelly motorbikes so the banded together and got the motorbikes baned. then the hikes and the bikes got the horses banned . then the hikers got the bikes kicked out for tearing up the trail. then the hikes got kicked out by another group that want it to be a protected trail that required a guide and a permit. now no one goes there and that was the point. there is aalways someone who beleives that you are doing the wrong thing and should be band for doing it. I never vote for bands becasue I could be next. if some one rides a pwc dangeorsly then go after them and hold them personnaly resposiabley for their actions not me for having a pwc. there are group out there right now that are trying to get boats band from the puget sound. Just this year they tried to get a 5 mph limit on the whole sound and failed but they will try again
there are two types of people in the world those, those that want to control your actions and those that have no such desire.. the later make better neighbors.
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