Honda 2 hp Kicker for 22' Cruiser, and 8'6" Dinghy

G

Gratitude

New member
Am considering downsizing from a 6 hp 4 stroke kicker to a 2 hp Honda kicker what speed would I expect on the Cruiser and Dinghy?

Is there anything else that I should be concerned about? I primarily fish in the ocean around the Channel Islands.

Thank you for your time and considerations.

Gratitude (Jim)
 
We travel to the Channel Isles as much as I can. At one time we had a 3 hp Johnson. My recommendation is to keep the 6 hp and enjoy it.

Why do you want to change?
 
journey on":jj849g82 said:
My recommendation is to keep the 6 hp and enjoy it.

Why do you want to change?
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I'm not the OP, but I have been considering changing to a 2hp secondary engine on my C-Dory 22 Cruiser. The main reason is weight. First of all, I would like to have less weight overall in the stern. Second, my boat lists to starboard, and there is not much other "big weight" I can shift to port (the secondary engine is on starboard). Third, leaning out over the transom to lower or raise the secondary engine I have now is hard on my back and potentially hazardous (that could potentially be overcome with a "stick" type lifting handle).

Right now my Honda 8 (fancy model with electric start) weighs 108#. A Honda 2 would weigh 28#. That's a savings of 80# that sits smack on the starboard transom. The 2 would be much easier to lift/lower, and I could even take it on and off the boat without a team of mules.

If I used my 8 for anything but a backup engine (say if I used it for fishing), well then I would probably find it well worth it. But I don't. It's there solely to get me out of trouble if need be; I basically run it just to keep it in tune for such a day. For my purposes, that usage is "getting over to the side of the road" where I can anchor and sort things out, and/or potentially to putter slowly back to port.

Given that I have considered going with just the single engine (main), adding the options I'd have with a 2 hp outboard seems like a big plus. I say that because I realize that a case could be made about how much "less" I would have than I do with the Honda 8 (that's also true, but I'm turning it around to look at it from another perspective, i.e. that of having no secondary engine at all).

I'd say it's always a matter of a person subjectively deciding where to draw the line on spares and tools (of which an engine is one). Do you carry a second engine at all? If so, how big? What are your expectations such an engine? Plane back to port just like you do with your main? (Then don't get a 2hp). Do more like what I am thinking (anchor, sort things out, putter along)? Then it could work. I can see someone going anywhere from just one of everything to a whole second boat (all the options :D).

I don't plan on having a powered dinghy now, but I suppose if I did then the 2hp has an additional plus as a dinghy engine.

I don't have any illusions about the Honda 2 - I had one on a previous boat and they are noisy, vibrate, have a small internal tank, and are a pain to start (for me). But they do a job and are a manageable weight.

Not that this is directly applicable, but one day I saw a dock neighbor puttering slowly in on his Mason 42 (sailboat). Turns out his (main boat) engine had quit something like 10 miles out, and he had strapped his small dinghy (with Honda 2) onto the hip and puttered on in. He even docked it :D Granted, conditions were calm, but that's partly because he had anchored to wait for the best tide/wind conditions (this was in BC, so tides were a factor). There can always be extreme stories in either direction, so I only post this as an anecdote. There could certainly be times a Honda 2 would be inadequate.

Anyway, those are the thoughts of one person who is considering changing from an 8hp Honda to a 2hp Honda (wish they made the Suzuki in a long shaft).
 
Read my recent post about our experience with a Torqeedo and its performance.

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=30

I am not trying to push the use of that motor, but of you are considering the use of a smaller motor for backup/dinghy purposes only, it is relevant to your questions about the Honda 2hp.

I have owned the Honda 2hp motor and while it was light and simple, I would take a water cooled suzuki or yamaha over that unit in a heartbeat. The weights are similar enough, but the noise of that Honda was much louder if you plan to use it on a dinghy at all.

The honda also has no neutral/fwd clutch which many find especially annoying. The air cooled advantage for flushing avoidance is only relevant if you use it regularly enough. They all have carbs at this size which can sooner give you trouble than corrosion.

Our Torqeedo experiment is working well thus far but if I have any trouble moving forward I would go for the Suzu or the Yami 2.5 or that Lehr propane 2.5.

Greg
 
Not meaning to take over the thread (but at least I'm on topic!), but... interesting to read your Torqueedo thoughts. Also, I'm with you on preferring a small Suzuki. I really wish they made that in a long shaft, but perhaps I should consider a short shaft. If I were the OP and planning to use it on a dinghy (presuming not an Alaska or other one that takes a long shaft), then there would be another plus for a short shaft.
 
Sunbeam,

We sold the same 8hp honda off our 19 in one day on craigslist for 1600 bucks which could buy you a nice new small motor and still leave cash in your pocket.

With the appropriate bracket, a shortshaft kicker can work on your boat. At kicker speeds the reach doesn't have to be the same as the main and they have all kinds of adustable brackets out there.
 
Aurelia":1cokacqa said:
Sunbeam,

We sold the same 8hp honda off our 19 in one day on craigslist for 1600 bucks which could buy you a nice new small motor and still leave cash in your pocket.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that! I had noticed you had the same engine on your 19 originally. I also appreciate the pricing info. I was figuring I could at least come out even if I switched, but good to know what you got.

Aurelia":1cokacqa said:
With the appropriate bracket, a shortshaft kicker can work on your boat.
Click to expand...

I just put a Mini Jacker on (non adjustable), which would be overkill for the 2, but which I might still like to keep on the boat (for possible future change of mind). A short shaft might still work with it though because as it sits, the long shaft 8's prop is still lower than that of the long shaft main (I suppose though that it could rise up a bit more due to being off to the side). Guess I'll have to get out with a tape measure and do some "visualizing." I sure would prefer the Suzuki (based on what I have read anyway).
 
We had to update our inflatable dinghy... the glue finally gave it up after 10 years. I bought a new motor to go with it, a 3.5 hp Tohatsu. Prior to that, we were using a 2.5 hp Merc (made by Tohatsu). We also carried that motor on the stern of our 25 on an adjustable bracket. It would move the boat about 3 1/2 knots, no current. I haven't tried the 3.5 on the C-Dory yet, but I would expect to see 4 to 5 knots; not blinding fast, but way less weight and expense than carrying around a 10 to 15 hp motor... that won't see any other use except back-up.

This 3.5 is our dinghy motor, but will be carried on the back of the C-Dory... just in case.

I completely understand the reasons for keeping it light on the stern and allowing double function.

Best wishes,
Jim
 
We have a 2hp Honda for our dinghy motor and, with the caveats Greg mentioned it works quite well. I'd be leery of depending on it for a get home engine up here though because of strong currents and some wind. Lets say you are going into a 3kt current (not uncommon hereabouts) and the 2hp will push your 22 at 4-5 kts, that leaves you 1-2kts/hr not accounting for wind. Makes a 10nm trip a full day.
 
We recently purchased a 16 ft Cruiser and it had 2 electric motors one on each side of the main. Guess it worked for the previous owner but with the 2 extra batteries "pretty heavy" extra weight.
I simply didn`t feel comfortable to get back to port should main engine fail. so bought a 6 hp Suzuki and just rigging up the steering now. It can be used with its internal tank or an external one. sweet little motor and well balanced for tilting.
 
Sunbeam, a few comments on your post.

First, both you and I have the heaviest 8/9.9 made. I freely admit that motor was a mistake, I got it with Journey On as a sorta throw in. Never used the starter, but I remember the weight every time Judy and I hoist that motor on the back of the boat, or onto the dinghy. I should of bought a Tohatsu at about 30 llbs less. You get your own shoulda.

So what's a reasonable HP for a small dinghy that'll still get a 22 C-Dory home? I have a 6 HP Johnson, the nicest engine I ever owned. It pushes the dinghy right along, even with 2 or 3 people in it, something the 3 HP never did. So I vote for 6 HP. A Tohatsu 6 HP 4-stroke is 57 lbs.

So the real discussion here should not be between a 2.3 (yes 15% more power) Honda and your Honda, but between the 2.3 and a 6 HP. That's 57lbs vs 31 lbs, a difference of 16 lbs. But one gets the capability of running the dinghy with a load. And 6 HP should get a 22 back home. Still a single cylinder for simplicity, and has reverse for complexity. Water cooled vs air cooled.

Your choice. By going to a 6 you save 51 lbs, ~50% of your present 8 HP outboard weight.

And to avoid discussing Honda as a make, they're heavy, but they work great.

Boris
 
I have owned many dinghy motors--probably the worse I have owned is the Honda 2. I disposed of it after one season. It was noisy, it vibrated, the centrifugal clutch would require a higher speed to engage, and not allow me to poke along at a slow speed. I had to shut it down, if I was visiting with another boater as I putted along. A very personal choice.

Another word about 2 hp--in the channel Islands. Once I had a 2 hp on an inflatable at Cuyler harbor San Miguel Island. If you have been there, you know there can be very fierce winds off the beach--up to 50 knots at times. I was on my way back to the boat when the wind built suddenly--if I had not been able to swing behind the large transom and get some lee, I would have been swept quickly away from the beach past our boat. The 2 hp did not have enough power to push the inflatable against that wind--a 4 hp would have.

I think that the 2.5 Suzuki, or if you can find one of the 3.5 hp 2 stroke Merc's or Tohatsu they are the same weight at about 31 lbs and considerably more thrust than the 2 hp Honda--plus a neutral clutch and quiet.
 
I think one should look at the whole picture when considering a kicker/dinghy motor. Is the kicker to be used for the dinghy motor as well as aux power?

Dinghies come in all flavors, from rollups to console steered. As the CD22 can float on the dew, I decided I could anchor in close and not need to make those long runs necessitated with a deeper draft boat. As the dinghy had to be hoisted onto the roof, I wanted the lightest, rollup I could find. Though, you will hear from the manufacturers that 6hp motors will plane these type boats, my experience has been that anything over 3hp just bowed the floor up more and made more noise. Also, not wanting to add a hoist, lifting the extra hp over the transom to mount on the dinghy was a backbreaker. The Suzuki 2.5 is LIGHT, uses little gas and suits my needs.

Will the 2.5 push a CD22? While offshore last week, head wind and 3ft chop, my Suzuki 6hp pushed me at 3 knots. A 10hp would have been faster, but will not plane the boat, even in perfect conditions, and weighs much more. The 2.5 in these conditions would have been marginal. These are common conditions where I fish. In a lake or protected waters with little current, shouldn't be a problem.

The 6hp long shaft is on a fixed mount, I think a Mini Jacker, and tilts up and down easily. The long shaft reaches deep enough that there is no cavitation even in steep chop and at full throttle.

So, what works for me and my situations, is a long shaft 6hp Suzuki kicker and a 2.5hp Suzuki for the dinghy. The 2.5 mounts on a snap on mount in the cockpit. The dinghy and 2.5 are light and can easily be left at home if not needed.
 
I'm going to take a close look at the Suzuki 2.5 because I'm no fan of the Honda 2 (in particular) either. Except for what it does and the light weight (and the long shaft). I definitely wouldn't get a 2 (or similar) expecting it to push the boat like a 6 or larger. I also wouldn't get one if it were an engine I planned to use often - for that I prefer two-cylinder smoothness.

Boris, I hear what you are saying about the Tohatsu 6, and I have considered that engine. It would be a good weight savings. Upshot is that I'd rather have less weight still (especially if I'm giving up the electric start/pull start/alternator combo), and I'm willing to give stuff up for it.

I'm usually out on a boat for an extended period of time, when I don't have to be home "by Monday morning," so I'm willing to chance that I will have to anchor and wait for favorable conditions, and/or have a slow slog of it. As I said earlier, I'm looking at it as compared to going with a single and no kicker, so it will give me a lot more options than that would.

Gratitude may have different priorities if out fishing for the day in the Channel Islands (I probably would if that were my typical use case).

As always, it's "pick your compromise."
 
Suzie 2.5 is an excellent motor. I have one for my dingy and it also is nice on my canoe, BUT, I wouldn't consider a 2.5 a get out of trouble motor for a 22. Maybe it would give you some steerage way in certain near shore or off shore conditions. Usually the big motor gives up the ghost in the worst conditions, not the best conditions. I've been through that on Lake powell on my single engine mini house boat, a few years ago. High winds, big waves, a mess, but my 7.5 hp honda started right up and not only kept us favorably positioned with the waves, but let us make about 5 mph back to the docks. Just fate when your read many stories of engine failure in bad seas. If you are happy to just keep the bow into the waves, then the 2.5 might do the trick, but then a sea anchor can do that too. But in the end, some power is better than none when the single engine lets go. Suzuki is a great motor builder.
 
Don't get a California suzuki 2.5 hp they have a different carb as I understand than the out of state ones, mine has been plagued with design flaws:
1. It starts but you have to play the throttle to keep it from stalling, and when you move into gear it would stall at a flat spot as you throttled up, spent more money on service than the motor cost new and it never work for me like other outboards needed to be babied - be very careful check the motor before purchasing check the web you can read countless stories of this design flaw on California models.
2. Hard to start due to higher compression than other outboards + has a nasty compression kick back that hurts, my son could not start the motor but is able to start a 25 hp mercury, 4 hp tohatsu and of course the 2hp honda is the easiest.
3. The gas breather never sealed completely unless you cranked it down super hard then you could not open it up again with out a wrench.
4. Over heated the motor on a simple 2 mile run, the water passageways are very small and the outlet is even smaller and needs to be checked often - design flaw that others have also had this over heating problem if run at full throttle for a given time.

I must have got a factory lemon....

Finally after 3 yrs or so of mild usage it started slipping while in gear under power, at first I thought it was misfiring but it became worst to the point every 30 secs it would slip the clutch with a loud bang....figures you get what you pay for $540 new but it was nothing but trouble.

Replaced it with a used honda 2hp and I don't have any problems any more could not be more happy. Same noise level at full throttle as the suzuki and does not ever leak any fuel when the breather is closed. Honda just makes motors that WORK and work well. My 2 cents
 
Wow, this group is amazing! Thank you one and all for your thoughts and insights. After mulling over the scope of responses, I will keep my 6 hp kicker. I will be purchasing a dinghy, and had envisioned sliding the dinghy down from the roof, and maneuvering it back to the stern, step into the dinghy from the swim step, and removing the 2 hp Honda from the existing kicker bracket, and installing it on the dinghy. It sounds like there may be instances where the additional hp could be beneficial with the 6 hp. The issue is its bulk and weight.

Thank you one and all again.

Gratitude (Jim)
 
I, like Dr Bob, had a Honda 2hp, that while it ran ok, did not do the job that I wanted it to do. My intent was to use it as a kicker on my Montgomery 15, as a trolling motor on my tin skiff, to power my Zodiac, and as a light weight kicker on the CDory. It was 'OK' on the Montgomery and the CDory, but the centrifugal clutch would not allow it to run slow enough for trolling and slowly putting along in the Zodiac.

I replaced it with the Suzuki 2.5, and I reduced my expectations of a do everything motor. I am very happy with the Suzuki. No issues.
 
Our 6hp Tohatsu aux motor has got us back to port a couple times now at 5mph due to issues with the main engine. Once it was simply a stuck thermostat on the main, but it was nice to motor home and tie up at the dock to diagnose and repair the problem. As a bonus, I used the kicker all day yesterday trolling for Kokanee on less than a gallon of fuel. We also have the 2.5 Suzi for the dingy and love it.

To save a 100lbs, I hope by the time I need to repower the main, someone has checked out the Honda 60hp. I know it would not push a 22 at 20+ mph, but I would be happy at 14-18mph for the weight reduction and economy.
 
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