Honda 5hp kicker motor - Used it at Santa Cruz Island

L

letitride

New member
Over the weekend got to use my Honda 5hp kicker motor on a 22 Cruiser fully loaded with lots of gear.

Long story short - was anchored at Santa Cruz Island,Ca west of Prionsers Anchorage. We where Diving having a great time, got back on board and attempted to start the main motor 90HP Honda and it was dead.......no electrical power. Burned a few hrs debugging the problem but was not able to get it running at this point decieded to move to a more safe anchorage incase the weather turned.

Ocean was calm but things change quickly at the islands.... Fired up my 5HP kicker motor, was able to the get the fully load C-Dory up to a steady 6.5kts with the main motor down for steering. Had to travel ~2 miles to my favorite anchorage on Santa Cruz Island called Prisoners Cove / Anchorage.

Once at a more safe anchorage location - we quickly isolated the issue and found that the Ground Bar connection was lose enought to have power but not enought power to use the starter motor to kick over the main motor simple tighten the bolt solved the problem :)

Learned some valuable lessens - my 5hp kicker worked perfectly and I used it to get to a calmer / safer location. Could have used it to get all the way back to port easily dueable since we would be going with the swell, wind and current.

My question for other's is how fast can you push a 22ft C-Dory Crusier loaded with a 9.9hp kicker?
 
Why didn't you use the rope that Honda gives you to start the 90 when the batteries died? I have used mine twice and its not very hard. In fact it starts in the 3 or fourth pull every time. its standard issue with your 90. any rope will do in a pinch. I once used poly shrimp pot line just to see if it would work. No needed to limp home on the kicker.
 
That is a very good question , we where attempting to perfrom manual starting but found the loose ground connection so we did not complete that activity.

How to you set the compression release for the manuel starting with the pull rope?
 
The 9.9 will give you maybe a knot more--and quite a bit more fuel. Might be better in head winds and chop--but I have gone thousands of miles in a boat the size of a C Dory25 with only a 5 hp outboard--mostly 5 to 6 knots. (In fact my father "moved up" from his 30's era 5 hp to a 9.9--and the 9.9 in that boat was no faster, and more difficult to handle.
 
Good info!

A few months ago I bought a "high thrust" Tohatsu 6hp to use strictly as a get-to-safe-moorage motor. I haven't used it yet (motor is in AZ, and I'm in FL), and frankly I wondered how it would work. I guess your post answers that question. Thanks.

Best,
Casey
 
thataway":1bnliqih said:
The 9.9 will give you maybe a knot more--and quite a bit more fuel. Might be better in head winds and chop--but I have gone thousands of miles in a boat the size of a C Dory25 with only a 5 hp outboard--mostly 5 to 6 knots. (In fact my father "moved up" from his 30's era 5 hp to a 9.9--and the 9.9 in that boat was no faster, and more difficult to handle.
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Excellent thank you for the valuable information - guess there is not going to be a massive improvement gain in speed between a 9.9 and 5 since the 9.9 is not enought to get up on a plane.

Also my 5HP has a high thrust prop.
 
Glad to hear that the 5 hp was sufficient in our home waters. I have a 6 hp Tohatsu as my kicker and have found it moves the boat well -- but I haven't had to use it out at the Islands. Glad you found the problem and were able to get the main started. It's a long ride home!

Matt
 
what would be the lowest hp for trolling or getting home (emerg. only )
Would a 3 1/2 -4 hp do it on a cd-22 or cc23 ? I would like to get the smallest motor for a small dingy and for emergency only ?

Ive looked at some of the spec. and the 3-5 hp seem to be same cu .inches Whats the c-brats take on this .
 
it all depends. all these small motors will push the 22 to hull speed. and you are not going any faster then that unless you can plane. Now that's great in theory or small windless lakes. but in the ocean with wind and currents you may need a bigger engine. In some place around here (nw) currents can be greater then hull speed and you might end up sitting still or going backwards with a 20hp motor.

So a 3 hp will get you to hull speed but if you are in a 6mph current you are not going any where. But a 9.9 might be able to overcome a 6mph current and still get you to hull speed or at least near it.

I always say that you should get the biggest motor for the job. In this case you need to move the motor from one boat to a dingy. so the question is how big of a motor will your dinghy handle and how much weight can you move???

Now a lot of small motors are the same weight but different horse power. Going from memory. a Suzuki 4,5,6,hp motors all weight the same. they are just tuned different. So it you can lift the 4hp why not get the 6hp for the same weight????

two strokes will weight less and you are not using that much gas so mixing is not a big concern. Also look at whether you want a built in tank or a separate tank and figure the weight of the fuel. So maybe a 4 hp is lighter but with built in fuel its more then a 8hp. I have seem 6hp with and with out fuel tanks built in. Just things to think about.
 
Can someone post the hull speeds for the C-Dorys please:

C-Dory 16 _____ , C-Dory 19______, C-Dory 22 ______, C-Dory 25 ______, TomCat 255 ________.

Venture 23 _______, Venture 26 ________.


I have been trying to find the waterline length specs and have not been able to come up with that number. That would be nice here too.

Thanks,

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
We have used a 3.5 HP Merc 2 stroke (also a suzuki 2.5 hp 4 stroke)--both of these are light enough to easily transfer from the larger boat to the dinghy. If the engine is too heavy, then use a davit for transfer (we do because of back problems). If I wanted to troll for salmon, then I probably would own a long shaft high thrust 8 hp engine just for that and as a get home--and a separate dinghy motor.

The 3.5 will push both the 25 and 22 at adequate speed to get home. This may not be the max "Hull speed"--the faster you go the more HP and less effecient the engine is. The 1.34 x sq root LWL is a number up to what the boat is easily driven, and not started to climb over its bow wave or dig a hole--but as noted above that lower speeds are more effecient. The scenerio given by Tom would work for head winds and seas, but not necessarilly for current, unless the larger engine gave a considerably higher speed. In that case it might be a knot or so more of a 9 hp over a 6 hp. But the 3.5 hp might only be a knot less than the 6 hp.

The way to measure the water line is to drop perpendiculars and measure how long it is--I generally subtract 3 feet from the over all Length of the C Dory boats. Doing that, the 1.34 sq root of the LWL of the 22 would be
5.8 knots.
 
hardee":1em2ykkt said:
Can someone post the hull speeds for the C-Dorys please:

C-Dory 16 _____ , C-Dory 19______, C-Dory 22 ______, C-Dory 25 ______, TomCat 255 ________.

Venture 23 _______, Venture 26 ________.


I have been trying to find the waterline length specs and have not been able to come up with that number. That would be nice here too.

Thanks,

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
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Hi Harvey,

The formula is not so precise that an estimation of LWL isn't sufficient. Just the load on the boat will change the LWL and of course it also changes the displacement. A fair estimation in this case is truly "good enough" since several factors outside your control have more effect than small changes in LWL.

The only numbers I've seen come from the Marinaut site (and I suppose ultimately from Ben Toland), which lists the CD22 at 18' 5" and the Venture 23 at 19' 3".

Les
 
Dr Bob said:

The way to measure the water line is to drop perpendiculars and measure how long it is--I generally subtract 3 feet from the over all Length of the C Dory boats. Doing that, the 1.34 sq root of the LWL of the 22 would be 5.8 knots.
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Les Lampman said:

"The formula is not so precise that an estimation of LWL isn't sufficient. Just the load on the boat will change the LWL and of course it also changes the displacement. A fair estimation in this case is truly "good enough" since several factors outside your control have more effect than small changes in LWL.

The only numbers I've seen come from the Marinaut site (and I suppose ultimately from Ben Toland), which lists the CD22 at 18' 5" and the Venture 23 at 19' 3". "

Thank you both. Those numbers are going into my Log book. For practical purposes I have been using 5.25 to 5.5 knots for ball park, and then using GPS for speed, which I know is not the best on ocean water. Listening for the sound of teh bow wave helps.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

JC_Lately_SleepyC_Flat_Blue_070.thumb.jpg
 
Using the kicker to get you home is also quite different than using a kicker for trolling. At higher rpm's a single cylinder kicker works as a "get you home" motor, but a low rpm's, a single cylinder motor really rattles the boat and can be quite annoying. I personnally prefer a 2 cylinder motor, whether it is 2 or 4 stroke -- the 4 stroke is best to minimze breathing the blue air. Ron
 
starcrafttom":2oct0qbe said:
So a 3 hp will get you to hull speed but if you are in a 6mph current you are not going any where. But a 9.9 might be able to overcome a 6mph current and still get you to hull speed or at least near it.
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Okay, maybe I need some schooling here :idea , but here's my understanding.

We all agree that Hull Speed is the maximum theoretical speed of a boat at displacement speed through the water. Square root of Waterline Length x 1.34.

In other words, a 22 C-Dory will have a hull speed of about 5.76 mph (square root of 18.5 is 4.3x1.34). That is the maximum speed at displacement through the water. Beyond that the hull must acheive a planning attitude to run "over" the water, not through it. :)

Now, if you are going against the current, you will be moving at a through the water speed of 5.76 mph. If there is a sizable current against you, you will be going backwards. :( Unless you have the horsepower to acheive speeds above the hull's displacement speed.

So when we talk with people about kicker motors, and they bring up speed against the current- it doesn't matter. Hull speed is hull speed. Against a six mph current you will be standing still :!: (0 mph speed over ground) in a 22 C-Dory. With the current you will be making more progress, as the current is pushing you, but the speed through the water is still 5.76 mpg. (In theory you will be doing nearly 12 mph.) :arrow:

There are passes up in the north Puget Sound area that have very strong currents, and displacement trawlers have to plan the traversing of these areas so they aren't going against the current, because they will be unable to make progress over ground. :clock

The Tacoma Narrows is the same way. You can have a 10 knot current running through there, and a displacemet vessel will not be able to make headway against the current, even though they are moving 6-10 knots through the water. :cry:

Now, can a 9.9 push a 22 C-Dory faster than hull speed? I don't know, but I doubt it. I do know it will burn more fuel, cost more, and weigh more.

We had a 24' boat in our shop, an I/O powered deep V fishing machine. I can't remember if it was a Skagit Orca or Sea Sport, but it was that type of boat. The owner has outfitted the boat with a 25 horsepower Yamaha kicker, on a very expensive aluminum bracket that he had custom built, because nobody had aything available that would handle the weight of the Yamaha. :|

If you look at the prop of the outboard, you notice that all of the paint on the outer edge of the blades is burned away from cavitation. And it makes sense, because once he acheives hull speed using the Yamaha, he can keep giving it throttle, but he can't get much more speed- so something has to give. :!:

In this boat's case, the prop breaks loose, and begins slipping and cavitating. The exploding air bubbles burn the paint away. So the owner could have gotten the same speed out of his kicker if it had beena 9.9. In fact, the High Thrust 8 or 9.9 might perform better, because the larger prop has better contact with the water, and is less likely to slip.

I suppose he could have gone with a 25 horse High Thrust (if one had been offered then), but even it's gonna start slipping as it pushes the boat to hull speed, and attempts to go beyond. :shock:

The area where more horses will help is in a wind, because the wind affects the vessel, but not the speed through the water.

At least that's my understanding. But I'm willing to be educated on this. :tea
 
Matt Gurnsey":1rwypnx3 said:
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At least that's my understanding. But I'm willing to be educated on this. :tea
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Matt - you're correct (of course) and you're the one doing the educating in this case.
 
So when we talk with people about kicker motors, and they bring up speed against the current- it doesn't matter. Hull speed is hull speed. Against a six mph current you will be standing still (0 mph speed over ground) in a 22 C-Dory. With the current you will be making more progress, as the current is pushing you, but the speed through the water is still 5.76 mpg. (In theory you will be doing nearly 12 mph.)
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This is exactly right. I spent years sailing a Ranger 26 in San Francisco -- the boat weighed about 5000 lbs and had a 6 hp auxiliary outboard. It would push the boat at hull speed (about 6 knots) all day and night -- but if I had a good ebb tide I would appear to be sitting still in the water while Alcatraz rock came cruising toward me :shock: . I learned to limit my crossings to slack tide when possible. The Tohatsu 6 seems to do the same for my CD 22.
 
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