honda outboard problems

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bcarli

New member
Hi
I have a honda 135 on my c-dory with 2200 hours. This season ( it seems that the problem started right after having the engine serviced but I can't be sure the problem didn't start before having the engine worked on???) but the temp alarm suddenly goes off when I bring the boat to neutral after running it for an hour or so, this does not happen all the time just occasionally . I have a honda tach gauge that shows the problem is a over-heating problem, not oil pressure. I brought our boat to a honda dealer here the the northwest and had the motor put on the computer and they put a new impeller on my engine ( cost me $600)...seems extremely expensive for the job. I also had new thermostats put in( part of the original service). I also have a small oil leak that I have had for the last year but this season the leak seems worse...
so... I have no idea what to do or even think...I will bring it back to the dealer who charged me $600 but I wonder if any c-brats out there may have a thought or two....
thanks
bill
 
Funny that it does it, when it does it, as you are going to neutral. I would say that it is not and was not a heating problem but most likely a wire or contact problem and you are getting a false alarm. but I am here and you are there so its hard to say.
 
bcarli":35cugxf0 said:
the temp alarm suddenly goes off when I bring the boat to neutral after running it for an hour or so, this does not happen all the time just occasionally . I have a honda tach gauge that shows the problem is a over-heating problem, not oil pressure.
bill
Click to expand...

When you suddenly drop the engine rpm and load from 100% to less than 10%, and the cooling (impeller driving water though the water jackets) drops to the minimum circulation, is it hard to understand that the residual heat in the engine block metal can drive up engine temperature sensor enough to make it think the engine is overheating?

Sounds like it ought to happen, almost, and not surprising that it does, at least occasionally.

Might also be an indication that the water jackets are encrusted with salt, interfering with heat transfer.

My 2 cents, for free again! :lol:

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
How's your battery? I was getting low voltage and over temp alarms on my Suzuki and it all went away after I replaced my 6 year old cranking battery. What's the shop rate up there that does seem a little steep. Did they charge you to hook it up to the computer and to change the pump?
 
Even installing a new thermostat does not preclude it from being defective. Also, while I know nothing about the nature of Honda's thermal sensors and threshold's, why couldn't there be a problem with this mechanism? My recommendation is to take it to another dealer where they can examine these issues as well as what Joe brought up about encrustation.
 
I just changed out both impellers on my Suzuki's in the shade of a big ol' tree. Total cost: $45.00 and two hours of my worthless time. Yes, I know. I don't have a shop with overhead, but I do think most shop service rates for cars, boats, and don't get me started on airplanes, are out of line. 600 bucks for a one hour job...changing the impeller...is out of line by about 500 bucks. Putting it on the computer for 10 minutes? Just doesn't sound right to me. Lets say they put 3 hours into the whole works...200 bucks and hour?

How long before the temp light goes out after going to neutral? Or does it stay on in neutral?

It should take quite a bit of time for the engine block on 135 hp honda to respond to lower water pump rate. So that doesn't sound like the explanation. If you have a good pee rate at idle, you have plenty of cooling unless, as someone suggested, you have a bunch of blocked cooling passages. If you use an IR thermometer and point it around the engine block, you can get a decent idea if there are unusual hot spots relative to other areas on the engine at idle.
 
I forgot to add in my previous post that $600 to change your impeller was way out of line, and causes concern as to using that dealer's services. Mr. Ames was correct to point this out. I live in the Northeast, and labor costs are high, but not that high (approx. $100/hr)! Also, you did not have any problems before your engine was serviced, but now you do. If encrustation is your issue, why did it not manefest itself before your engine was serviced? This may not be a do-it-yourself fix, particularly if it is an engine thermal sensor or setting. Remember, your engine is computerized. It could still be a defective, wrong, or improperly installed thermostat. So I continue to recommend seeking out another dealer with a good reputation to re-examine your engine.

Note on the sophistication of your engine -- I have a similar engine, a Honda BF 115. One day we were traveling toward Bellingham, Washington at high speed when the engine alarm went off very shortly after encountering a patch of floating weeds. The engine went into degraded mode as an audible alarm sounded. When I lifted up the engine, I was surprised at how little weeds there were that clogged the water intake port. This caused me to realize that Honda may have set a conservative threshold for the internal temperature sensor, in my opinion. This of course is a subjective comment, because I have no reference to compare it to other engines. However, it was alarming how quickly the engine went into a degraded mode after encountering those weeds.

Rich
 
I had posted this last week and now have a follow-up:

"Osprey was misfiring, last time out... Yesterday, pulled coils and plugs. lower plug on starboard side was fouled, with rust on the last few threads.
Not good!
Took boat off of lift today and put on trailer. Have an appointment with a Honda shop on 2/16. Hoping a new outboard is not in my immediate future."

Got feedback from Atlantic Marine on 3/11 and they found that the right side cylinder head had a hole, due to corrosion, on the lower cylinder. They can replace the cylinder head, but today, they called back 3/14 and said that upon further inspection, that the block surfaces, in the same areas as the head's issues, were badly corroded.

So, in summery, I might be getting a new outboard. The current issue is that there are none currently available.
 
OUCH!

A few years ago when my Honda 150 blew up, the boat sat in a boat yard for 6 months before I got her back. I missed the entire boating season. This was all pre-COVID, but I still had all sorts of supply problems, and miscommunications, up and down the line that created delays at every turn. Bottom line.....I think it goes with the territory lots of times.

The good news is that once you get the boat back, you are likely to be very happy. I love my new engine (200HP instead of 150HP for one thing), and the whole thing seems like a distant memory now (even the $25,000 it cost! :wink: ).
 
Ouch, A bit of a long shot, but I am aware of a boat with aluminum block 6-71's where there was a very similar problem. The owner called the head diesel teacher at Trade Tech (Los Angeles)--who appeared with a couple of tubes of J B weld. As long as the surface Is not involved with the direct heat of combustion, it works. You may get by filling and fairing the surface, until a new engine becomes available. (Or just become a slow cruiser and use a kicker to go 6 or so knots.)
 
I'm certain corrosion and not hours will be what kills my ancient honda 45s. They've had a good run, but still run well - for now. I think I like the new Tohatsu 60s. I don't know of anyone running them, but their specs are very nice for CD 22 repower.
 
I think that WAS the case recently, but the new Tohatsu 60 is only 209/217 pounds while the Honda is 239 in the lightest model. It also has a completely different displacement leading me to think they are building their own 60 now. Anyway, they are almost exactly the same weight as my 45s and have quite a bit more power to move the heavy loads my boat sometimes can struggle with. Repowering is a tough decision.....I think I'd rather have a larger boat....maybe....how much is gas again?
 
T.A. Bauer,
I was referring to the larger/highest HP outboards as being rebadged Honda's. The outboards below that are indeed Tohatsu.
 
On the original poster's overheating problem, it is possible that when the engine was put into neutral and now without the added water flow pressure of forward movement, the impeller at idle didn't provide enough lift pressure (and thus flow) to the upper parts of the engine which then overheated it. This happens to me when my impellers approach 3 years old and take a set from sitting a few months, still good pee-tube flow, but insufficient flow to the upper parts of the head. I now change them religiously at 2 yr intervals.

I do my own maintenance especially after the dealer replaced the entire water pump when the engine (Yamaha F80) was only 2 years old. Of course it wasn't their fault that the casing broke when they torqued it down. $450 for one engine impeller change w/pump 18 yrs ago. Haven't had to replace a pump yet ...knock on wood.
 
For the intermittent alarm we ran hot water through the engine for 5 minutes or so. Also used salt away but hot water really cleaned up the sensor and no more alarms. Good luck!
 
Today, I was able to head over to Atlantic Marine, to take a look at my engine, with the heads removed. The block's cooling passages is wasted away, about 70% and even more in several locations. The hole in the right head is about 3/8" diameter.

Without much else to say or look at, I told them that I would not be making further repairs and to scrap the outboard.

Now, on a good note, they have a good but used engine that was removed for a HP upgrade, but it has 700 hours on it. They have an outboard that they purchased, when they purchased all large Honda's from Honda's east coast training facility. These are new outboards, never mounted on a boat, that were used by students, inside of the Honda training facility and can use my existing controls and wiring and does have NEMA 2000. Lastly, they can get me a new outboard, requiring new wiring, instruments and controls.

I will make a decision this evening, on the direction that I'm heading...
 
T.A Bauer,
I am the third owner of the boat. The first owner was meticulous, but only owned the boat for 2 years and the family had to sell the boat, due to the owners health. I am also meticulous, so it goes without saying, the second owner, did not flush the outboard, after each use.
I got the boat for a bargain price, because of lack of maintenance, so I knew that there were issues and I took care of most of them after purchasing the boat. Problems like severe corrosion internally hidden, was a gamble that I took and it bit me, but I did get 400 hours out of the existing outboard, so all is not a loss, as this is more hours than most get in 8 or so years...
 
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