LEGLESS DINETTE TABLE

M

Molly Brown

Member
Hey all....

After 14 years of kids, bug and fish guts, dog hair, spilled wine/olive oil/beer, river mud, beach sand, etc... Molly Brown is getting a complete interior overhaul and the addition of permanent air to save my back and the need to set up, take down and store the portable hatch air conditioner every day (we're in Florida and use the air a lot). Perusing this site as I'm prone to do, I'd read in a post (I think about one of the Marinauts) about a legless dinette table. Can't seem to figure out a practical way to do that. Is anyone able to enlighten me how that would work? Would one be able to lean on the dinette table without fear of it collapsing? How would it handle rough water?
I'm a ways from having to make a decision on that since the rehab of the interior is just starting and I intend to finalize the air install before I tackle a thorough cleaning and interior paint job. My brother is a cabinet maker and will be making all new cabinetry which has been completely removed from the boat. Before cleaning and paint I intend to remove all the access panels and have a look at the interior of the spoons and see what all is going on down there since they have not been opened since the boat was new. It's a big project.

James
 
James,
A legless table would be slick!! Hopefully someone will have an answer. As you have pointed out it would have to be strong enough to lean on. I've noodled on this but so far haven't come up with a simple, inexspensive solution. If the Marinaut does it, it must be doable.
It will be great to see what ideas come forth.
 
I guess it would depend in part on whether you wanted to retain the feature that lets you make a berth out of the dinette or not.

If not, a couple of ribs that attached to the hull side and arced over to the underside of the table would work pretty easily. They could be made of bent tube or wood (e.g. teak).

A wood panel bonded to the interior cabin wall would make a decent attach point for the supports. Might cost about $100 and some elbow grease.

On my CD22 it would be fairly easy to do (hmmmm......)
 
We have a legless table on our Cape Cruiser, it is how they built the interior. It has never collapsed on us and we've been in some pretty rough water. We also have 2 plastic sliding drawers that are installed into the bottom of the table, one on each side of the support bracket. One drawer holds our silverware and one miscellaneous kitchen utensils and knives. This added weight has never been a problem, nor when Mary leans on the table; it has never unexpectedly collapsed. I don't know of if the bracket we have is what you have in mind but we sure like it. I don't have any photos of it but will try to get over to the boat and take a couple. If you look on page 2 of our "Projects" subalbum you can see a general idea of the table and how open the floor area is without any base post, but I'll try to get a couple of photos of the bracket and attachments.

Rob,
 
James, I've now put 4 photos of our drop-down table bracket in the "Projects" sub-album of our boat Freedom. They are on page 2 of the sub-album. Sorry, I don't know how to post them in this message thread.

Rob
 
Here are the photos of Freedom's table support. (Although if you want to add to your mod list - or just enjoy some nice work - I recommend a trip to the Freedom album.)

(BTW, I don't know how the later Marinauts were done, but IIRC the one on the first boat (now Seeker) also "braced back" to the port side hull, but perhaps a bit lower down.)

IMG_20160603_134657.sized.jpg

IMG_20160603_134736.sized.jpg

IMG_20160603_134808.sized.jpg

IMG_20160603_134904.sized.jpg
 
We have the same table on our cc-23 . I put in one extra hinge to be safe and we leave it up all the time . I guess check a RV or marine brochure . west marine or defender?
what kind of A/C unit .I'm thinking about a 9200 btu A/C rv style on top of roof ? I wonder how hard it would be to install ? maybe talk to Camper world for advice ? Jim
 
Don't talk to Camper World about anything boating--they are bad enough about RV items....

A number of us have put the Polar Cub or equivalent on the top of C Dory cabins. Check my album if you wish--many do not go to that much trouble. All it takes is the standard 14" cutout in the room, I prefer some flat surface on top, and some re-inforcement, to avoid pooling of water from the condensate. Run the power line up along the side between windows, there are various ways to attach it.

Fairly straightforward install. What are the questions?
 
I believe that Thataway put a RV AC unit in the roof of his boat. There is a gallery showing the installation. Seems fairly straight forward to do.
 
Any idea what the Brand and Part Number is for the folding bracket/support arm?

Caption: "The upper side of this bracket pops up and this allows the table to fold down against the hull.
The bracket holds tight is all conditions we have encountered despite the flimsy appearance. "
IMG_20160603_134808.sized.jpg

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Thanks for all the reply's.....

Rob, your pics are worth a thousand words. It a appears that your set up still has a leg, albeit, on a slant. That makes more sense to me and will look at replicating something like that on my new build. I did notice your hull attachments are hinges so I assume you just tilt it down out of the way. Do you ever make yours a berth? Definitively want to keep the ability to convert the dinette to a berth since that happens 90% of the time on overnights. I do like the drawer idea as they aren't too deep. We store stuff under the table all the time and it has to be no higher than when the dinette is a berth hence the need to keep the drawers shallow. You had no info the legs but maybe the drawers?

Brent...The original cabinets were marine plywood with a thin veneer. Ours was severely pitted and by the time it was sanded there was not enough left to be useful. I'd done some marine top paint on wood for the kitchen counter a couple of years ago but was not happy with how it held up. My brother is working up some samples of a "smoked wood" that will be stained to our liking and coated with a marine varnish. The smoking process removes the sugars and moisture leaving you with a very light, strong wood, or so we think. The original cabinetry was quite heavy to if I can save the weight it would be perfect. I'll know more once the samples arrive later this week.

Jim...I finally went with a Coleman Mach 8 Low Profile unit, 9200 BTU. The only "marinised" ones I could find were 13.5K BTU and higher. Most of our overnights are on the hook and I really wanted to keep the AC draw to a minimum. We have a Honda 2000 and it has run a hatch marine air conditioner, the fridge and our two bank 10 amp battery charger on ECO no problem for years. I can tell you the hatch air can't be over 5 BTU and has always struggled to keep the cabin comfortable and now that I'm 60 I really hate putting up and taking down the air unit and the little tent I have made to cover it during storms to prevent rainwater from blowing in. And in addition I have to stow it during the day while cruising and it takes up a lot of space and can be a bear to manhandle around. I had 3/4 inch synthetic honeycomb board glassed onto the center portion of my roof, roughly 28" x 40", to stiffen it up and provide the recommended 1" thickness required. I make a mess working with fiberglass and have no gelcoat skills so I'm having a shop do that part.

SoBelle...Thanks for the link but I try not to buy something that isn't sold stateside. I see that they are collapsible but I'll be looking around for a table leg that is easy to unpin so as to convert to a berth.

James
 
ssobol":2ists3c7 said:
Looks like this one:

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/lid-door-stays/3399139/

Don't know of a US distributor.
Click to expand...

ssobol- Thanks for the link! That's the one!

Too bad it doesn't lend itself to adapting to use of the table top in converting to a berth.

Here's a video of how it works: (in Swedish, but easy to see how it works!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9SpP5_N9nQ

Brochure: http://www.roca.se/las-sakerhet/shared/ ... O_2014.pdf

Another source: http://www.toplicht.de/en/shop/innenbes ... schstuetze

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
My concern with this mechanism is that it appears to rely on gravity to work. In your house or other stationary situation I guess it works ok. My concern that in a situation where things can get bumpy or be tossed around, it might be possible for that mechanism to release unexpectedly, say after going over an unexpected wake, and have the table collapse. Especially after the mechanism has worn a bit.

For a boat I would prefer some sort of positive locking device. I would consider drilling a hole vertically through the tubes and putting in a pip pin to secure the moving parts.

You could easily make a similar device with a couple of nesting tubes and some brackets with a pin through the tubes to hold them in place at the right extension. If you don't want the table to fold down, you just need a straight tube. A bimini tube and two deck mount brackets would do the job nicely.
 
James, the table is hinged and folds down against the hull when turning the dinette into a berth. The table is not used to make the berth however. Instead, a separate piece of wood is laid across the space between the seat cushions and then the two backrest cushions are placed on top of that piece to complete the berth.

As for the two drawers, they were purchased from Camping World. They are ridiculously pricey (~$25 each) but they do go on sale periodically. Despite the price we love them. To assure they won't vibrate open while underway I put a screw into the side of each one, towards the back. It goes thru the track and into the side of the drawer. You can see the screw in one of the photos. The drawers are shallow, maybe two inches deep at most, but they hold silverware and most cookware nicely.

And just to reiterate, we have never had the table fall as a result of the bracket unexpectedly popping. I was most certainly concerned about that when I first saw the bracket but I've been very happy with how well it holds. Ssobol 's suggestion would certainly resolve any concerns about that and it would be most easy to do.

Rob
 
My thanks to all also. My thoughts about a legless table did not include the possibilities of a " leg " that went to the wall rather than the floor. I was trying to envision a support system only along the back edge and the table cantilevered out. The table would still be able to be lifted clear and placed between the seats to form the berth. The "leg" to the wall opens lots of options without the engineering of a cantilevered system.
" I see", said the blind man as he took out his hammer and saw.
 
olsurfdog":jxxmu2bz said:
My thanks to all also. My thoughts about a legless table did not include the possibilities of a " leg " that went to the wall rather than the floor. I was trying to envision a support system only along the back edge and the table cantilevered out.
Click to expand...

Another idea would be one I had on a flip up counter on a previous boat. The table hinges up (hinge is outboard) and then a triangular brace (or cut to a nice swoop more likely) that hinges such that it can be folded flat to the wall comes out 90º to support the table in the middle (meaning halfway between forward and aft ends of table). Then to make a bed, use part of the concept from "Freedom" in that you hinge the table down and then use something else to make the bed platform (ply you keep under seat cushion normally, or something like that). As a plus the table and bed piece could be different sizes, and maybe the bed piece could double as a cockpit table, work bench, or etc.

As long as the "triangular" piece is kept at 90º to the cabin-side, then it can't just suddenly fail, and it's reasonably easy to keep it in place like that. You could make the triangular support a pleasing fancy cut-away shape (no need for a full right triangle).
 
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