Marinaut Issues

C

C-Nile

New member
Betty and I experienced no major issues with the boat. Virtually all systems worked flawlessly. We did experience some minor issues due to the fact that this being the first factory built boat, Les did not have time to finish the boat with the level of detail which C-Brats people are accustomed. Also, being the first production boat, he needed more time to make important interior measurements and drawings to ensure that all following boats are built to his and Kathy's high level of standards. Accordingly, we have left the Betty Ann at Cornet Bay for the winter, and will return for another two weeks in March, 2012. Following are the issues we experienced.

1) We had (2) two JABSCO water pump failures -- each lasted approximately 9 days. Les was incredulous, because he has been using these pumps for 20 years and is accustomed to seeing these last for at least 10 years. This was as frustrating for Les as it was for us, and Les is thinking about putting in a more powerful pump. These failures seem to justify the old saying, "they sure don't make things like they used to."

2) As you are aware, Les inserted a second foot step on the gas tanks at our request, which makes it a lot easier for my wife, who has knee trouble, to get in and out of the boat. Her knees are so bad that she can't get into a CD 22 because the step is too low. So we have to have that step. Unfortunately, the wind blew the door from our hands into the port step and slightly gouged the edge, which can be easily fixed. Les is working on a solution which will allow for the clearing of the door past the port step so that it can be secured against the bulkead, or perhaps some other creative solution. Meanwhile, from the very beginning Les promised us that our boat would not be fundamentally different from those that follow, and this issue will be corrected by the time we return in March.

3) Not really an issue, although it could be, as you all know, what is nice about the Marinaut's dinette table is the fact that it does not need a central support leg to hold up the table, creating a lot of leg room. Due to the amount of sheer force on the lateral support bar bracket screws, Les wants to lag in some more robust anchors into the table top to provided added support.

4) The removable bulkhead makes occasional clanking noises when going across heavy chops or wakes. This is caused by the center of the removable bulkhead banging against the galley countertop. This is obviously a simple problem to remedy, and Les intends to have that issue corrected for ours and all future Marinauts.

5) Our horn blew a 5-Amp ATC fuse. We asked Les for permission to put in a higher rated fuse of 7.5 Amps, which corrected the problem.

6) Condensation occurs between the bottom of the berth cushions and the top of the laminate deck covering the berth and water tank located below it. Les is thinking about insulating the area between the water tank and berth deck, but from what I've read, just about all berths suffer from condensation under the berth cushions. We intend to use Hypervent to solve this issue, as has been recommended by many C-Brats. It makes sense that allowing a cushion of air under the berth will reduce, if not eliminate condensation. As Betty and I stated in a previous communication, that Mascoat Delta-T is amazing stuff. We sleep in the berth head-first, so one would think that moisture from our breath would cause quite a condensation problem, but it does not. The Mascoat Delta-T feels dry to the touch in the morning. It is truly excellent as an insulator.

As you can see, these problems were very minor in nature, and will be fixed by March.

Thanks,

Betty and Rich
 
We left out one more issue:

7) The cabin needs added lighting. We did not want or need shore power. Accordingly we requested Les to install LED lighting in the cabin, which saves battery power tremendously. However, while effective for task lighting (one light shines on the galley, another on the dinette table, and the third is in the berth,) we need approximately 80 to 100 lumens of additional light to brighten the cabin. We asked Les to install a dome light or alternative before we use the boat in March.
 
Glad that the trip went well, and there were minimal "issues". I stopped using Jabsco pumps many years ago, (at that time they were the only game in town, except much more expensive high end systems)--and when I used them, I kept one rebuilt, and a couple of rebuild kits on standby--with quick release water and electrical fittings. I have been using ShurFlo water pumps with no failures, both in RV's and boats.

I wonder if LED lights should be standard in today's world of this size boats. I like one over the helm, with both red and white, one over the galley, and one over each seat of the dinette--plus one on each side for reading in the bunk....I also put in one very dim LED night light. Sometimes I have made these 12 volt cig lighter plug ins for the night lights.
 
Thank you Bob. That was really useful information about Jabsco pumps. While I did not get a chance to see the pump, it sure seemed that both pumps failed because the impeller was turning freely on its shaft. Do you know if low-powered Jabsco pump impellers are press fitted onto its shaft? In each failure, we could hear the motor turning freely. Water flow gradually curtailed until no water was coming out. However, the sound was different after a failure in that the motor seemed less labored.

We totally agree with you about LED lights. It's nice to be off the grid. When we were in La Conner, that typhoon remnant knocked out power to the city. LED lights have low consumption, and our 105 AH battery can go days without charging.

Rich
 
thataway":34n6fnbt said:
Glad that the trip went well, and there were minimal "issues". I stopped using Jabsco pumps many years ago, (at that time they were the only game in town, except much more expensive high end systems)--and when I used them, I kept one rebuilt, and a couple of rebuild kits on standby--with quick release water and electrical fittings. I have been using ShurFlo water pumps with no failures, both in RV's and boats.

I wonder if LED lights should be standard in today's world of this size boats. I like one over the helm, with both red and white, one over the galley, and one over each seat of the dinette--plus one on each side for reading in the bunk....I also put in one very dim LED night light. Sometimes I have made these 12 volt cig lighter plug ins for the night lights.
Click to expand...

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the info on the Jabsco pumps. The one I used is a small 1 gpm model that threads directly into the water tank and has a 3/8" output. This model pump has been used for many many years on all Arima boats with water tanks and we've rarely had to change them (maybe two or three in 10 years). Well, something has changed. The first one we installed in Betty Ann went out in a matter of days and I thought we'd just gotten a bad one. But when the replacement died within a few days as well it's obvious something isn't working well. It's time to do something different. I think I'll replace the pump on the tank with an outlet fitting then install a standalone pump under the galley. The issue with that is finding a small one that will self-prime but I haven't looked much yet.

I've never used the model of LED lights we did on Betty and Rich's boat before. They're really slick and I like them but they are relatively low output and don't really provide enough light to be general lighting for the entire cabin.

I don't want to put in an overhead dome in the middle of the cabin due to headroom (and wire run) issues so I'm thinking of finding some LED lights that have more output that can be added to the upper sides of the cabin.

I like the idea of having an LED light over each dinette seat, I installed one over the center of the table but two would give more options. I also installed one over the galley and in the v-berth. I also think installing a red/white fixture over the helm area would be a good idea as you suggest.

Thanks very much for your observations, they're always helpful.

Les
 
Les,

It makes sense to put additional lights on the sides as opposed to a central dome light. We think we need at least 40 lumens of additional LED lighting. The reason why we think this is that we bought a 3.5 AMP LED Flashlight by Princeton Tec, which has two power settings. When we shined the light onto the ceiling so that it would illuminate the entire cabin, the low power setting was adequate. At the 100 lumen high power setting, the cabin was incredibly bright. Obviously, it would be counterproductive to have too much power consumption, so there has to be a trade-off somewhere. Whatever you choose, we're sure it will work fine.

Thanks,

Rich
 
Ahem.. Les?

Just let us know what you would like in High output Efficient LED lighting. You know we can make it up for you.

Wildest dreams come true etc etc..

-jim lee
 
It occurred to me that I never posted resolution to our issues, which have been all solved to our very high satisfaction:

1) We had (2) two JABSCO water pump failures... Resolved. We determined that this probably was the result of cavitation -- voids being created, causing a condition similar to "air lock". It's only a 1 GPM pump, but the faucet is variable flow. We were reducing the flow to a trickle, which is why I think we were causing the voids. We now use the faucet either in a full-on or full-off position, and we have had no difficulties at all. Yes -- we could use a different faucet, but we really like this one for a variety of reasons.

2) Cabin door strikes top step...Resolved. Les moved the step back a little, narrowed it a little, and installed a nice door stop/latch. It works great.

3) Marinaut's dinette table issue---resolved. Les turned the dinette table top fastener 90 degrees, and added a stop/latch for the the table top when it is folded down. The table is much more sturdy, and it's really nice not to have a support leg.

4) The removable bulkhead makes occasional clanking noises when going across heavy chops or wakes...Les made minor adjustments, and the major clanking is gone. It will occasionally make some noises in a moderate chop, but is it negligible. The great thing about the Marinaut is that the cabin bulkhead is removable, so the consequence of having this excellent feature is to put up with occasional, slight, noise.

5) Our horn blew a 5-Amp ATC fuse. We asked Les for permission to put in a higher rated fuse of 7.5 Amps, which corrected the problem.

6) Condensation occurs between the bottom of the berth cushions and the top of the laminate deck covering the berth and water tank located below it...resolved by using Hypervent under the berth cushions. We're happy to report that there is virtually no condensation on the interior walls due mostly, in our opinion, to the superior insulating properties of Mascoat Delta=T.

7) The cabin needs added lighting..We resolved this by using a 12 VDC to 110 VAC converter and 19 Watt CFL bulb in a shop light. The cabin lights us brightly with little affect on the battery.

Thanks!

Rich
 
JABSCO water pump update. It continues to work great when used full-on or full-off as I described without any issues. We love the pump. Please note that due to the length of tubing and the rise in elevation, this 1 GPM pump actually yields 1/2 GPM at the faucet. At that rate, it would take 30 minutes to completely empty our 15 gallon tank. We could not be more pleased with the rate of flow and the functionality of this pump.
 
Our EZ-Steer kicker motor linkage bracket broke and is not usable, and here's the rub: we never used it, it shows no signs of ever being hit or damaged. It just broke! We recommend pursuing other options for linking the kicker motor to the main engine steering.
 
After several month's of trouble free use, the Jabsco pump locked due to air-lock (not the result of restricted flow that causes a vacuum) that was the result of running the water tank dry. After filling up the tank, the air-lock would not clear. It took me about 2 minutes to clear up the problem. I turned the pump 1/4 turn to the left, pulled off the water hose from the outlet, let the water push the air out of the pump, reattached the hose, and turned the pump 1/4 turn to the right. My question to the group is whether or not it is advisable to install an air bleeder valve close to the outlet, and use the valve to bleed out air from the pump more easily. Has anyone done this?

Rich
 
FINAL WATER PUMP RESOLUTION. Today, I installed a pressure bleeder valve slightly above the the pump outlet, and tested it. As most of you know, there are basically two places where you can end up with voids in the system. One place is in the pump itself. If the impeller rapidly turns without sufficient volume, impeller cavitation will result in creating a void. Another way to create a void in the pump chamber is to allow the pump to suck in air as the boat rocks back and forth, because one allowed water in the tank to get too low. In both cases, by relieving pressure at the outlet, gravity will cause water to flow into and through the pump chamber and out through the bleeder. That's the purpose of the bleeder. It's fast to fix. The other way to create a void is a condition referred to as airlock that is the result of an improper installation of the hose in which a rising section of the hose is allowed to dip. I can assure everyone that Les and Kathy's team installed the hose properly. We have never experienced an airlock.

Now from what I understand, Les is installing a different pump on new Marinauts, and he even offered to replace ours. But we like our arrangement (Jabsco model 42510-0010.) The impeller is keyed to the motor shaft. The pump is quiet, and at 1/2 gpm, it makes the most out of our 15 gallons of water, giving us a seemingly endless supply. If we accidentally get a void in the pump chamber, all we have to do is turn the bleeder valve, and we are back in business.
 
Hello Jerry,

There are no leaks or restrictions. The system works well week's at a time without issues. The problem is caused when air is sucked into the impeller housing/chamber when we allow the water tank to get too low, or the result of cavitation when we too severely restrict flow at the water faucet. The problem is that once air or a void is present in the chamber, there is no way to vacate it without either removing the hose from the pump outlet, or installing a bleeder valve to allow gravity to push water through the void.

Thanks!

Rich
 
We replaced another water pump this summer in our boat. That makes 5 Jabsco fresh water pumps in 6 1/2 years. Oh, and another Jabsco macerator pump this summer, too. When talking with the folks at Jabsco, I found out that the first two pumps (C-Dory factory installed the first, they sent me the second) were not "marinized." I realize this is not the same thing to do with the Marinaut, but the "marinized" pumps don't seem to fare much better than the other. I bought the first marinized pump at a commercial shrimp boat place back home, the next one from West Marine. I have used pumps from 1.9 gph to 3.0 gph. No vapor lock, no failure to prime... they "get fussy" (work intermittently), then die within a few days.

Jabsco did send me two new pumps at no charge, after I documented the situations and gave them serial numbers. Some other boat owners have told me similar tales, but I think we have had the most frequent problem. I always carry a spare when cruising (plus we have the pump from our cockpit fresh water washdown as an additional back-up).

That said, I'm not willing to go back to a hand or foot pump - I like hot and cold pressure water. :D

Glad you were able to figure out a good resolution to the pump situation - wishing you lots of happy, trouble-free cruising.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Jim,
Your statements were insightful, and you have peaked my curiosity. What component of your Jabsco pumps failed during those six years? I'm curious, too, about the length of the water hose to the faucet, the rise in feet, and the number of sharp bends, if any, in the hose. What I'm getting at is whether or not the hydraulic head pressure may have exceeded tolerances for the pumps. One has to wonder what the company did to maximize the pumps -- if they indeed did anything.

Thus far, our pump has lasted a full season in which my wife and I have spent twelve nights on our boat along with many days and day trips. Our pump is still working fine, so it will be interesting to see how long it will last given your experience.

Rich
 
Jabsco has had reliability issues for some time. The new cd's are getting the Flojet variable speed and this pump is really well done. 4 1/2 months full time aboard last year and a couple so far this year. I expect no issues as we move aboard full time next month, and it's self priming. I would not use jabsco products personally. Their macerators have been notorious for yucky failures. Best of luck. George
 
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