Mooring buoys

[forrest]

Does anyone know the law concerning mooring buoys? I'm not asking about the ones in state parks but the other ones dotting the shores of Puget Sound. They are private buoys but they are located on public water. My wife asked me if anyone could tie to them and I didn't have an answer. I know when you are dealing with rivers, the owner can prevent entry across his land but he can't stop anyone from wading in the river through his land because the water belongs to the people of the State of Washington.
Just curious,
Forrest

 

[bridma]

If you google in Mooring Buoys PNW in the "Search the C-Brats" box you will find a lot of answers to your question. Hope this helps.

Martin.

 

[thataway]

I have always considered any other than marked public buoy's as private property. The buoy was put down and maintained by a private party--even if it is for rent. The other issues you don't know what the size of boat it was designed for or what condition the entire mooring system is. Each shackle, each bit of chain, each part of the penant and pick up system should be checked each year and replaced if necessary. You don't know if this service was done.

Another consideration is the owner may be gone, and be back in a few minutes. Without permission you are using an item which belongs to someone else. You have to presume that each mooring buoy has official permission for deployment.

 

[journey on]

For those of you in Washington State, here's a relevant law which describes how you get a [/url=http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=79.105.430]Washington Mooring Buoys I certainly have used mooring pri...hey go for $100K (30') to $500K (70'.) Boris

 

[bridma]

I find this topic very interesting.

Can you really take something you own (mooring buoy), put it in a public throughfare (the sea) that you do not own, and then put a sign on it saying, "don't touch, it's mine" ? I am looking at the logical side of the discussion, not the moral side.

Martin.

 

[NORO LIM]

. . .
Can you really take something you own (mooring buoy), put it in a public throughfare (the sea) that you do not own, and then put a sign on it saying, "don't touch, it's mine" ? . . .

Martin.

If you get the right permission. Same is true of docks and floats that extend into public waters. Depending on the body of public water, there is almost certainly going to be a permitting process, possibly involving agencies from the Corp of Engineers to a state department of ecology to some local department. Same kind of thing is true of fish pens and oyster beds which are privately owned but may interfere with public use of public waters.

 

[bridma]

If it is regulated and you go through due process and get a permit, sounds good to me. In my neck of the woods it is not regulated. Due to the increasing costs of marinas, and some with a waiting list of several years, mooring buoys are appearing around here faster than mushrooms. In fact so many buoys, it is becoming a hazard to navigation. I went and talked to 'Fisheries and Oceans'. They sent me packing saying "not interested" !

Martin.

 

[NORO LIM]

If it is regulated and you go through due process and get a permit, sounds good to me. In my neck of the woods it is not regulated. Due to the increasing costs of marinas, and some with a waiting list of several years, mooring buoys are appearing around here faster than mushrooms. In fact so many buoys, it is becoming a hazard to navigation. I went and talked to 'Fisheries and Oceans'. They sent me packing saying "not interested" !

Martin.

Sadly, I fear that may be more true than it should be in my neck of the woods, as well. Many people endorse the "better to plead ignorance later than ask permission first" approach to things. Enforcement costs money, and is notoriously lax. Have no idea how tangled issues become if a person who did NOT deploy the illegal buoy uses it, and the person who DID deploy the illegal buoy objects.

 

[Miafun1]

I know when you are dealing with rivers, the owner can prevent entry across his land but he can't stop anyone from wading in the river through his land because the water belongs to the people of the State of Washington.
Just curious,
Forrest

Correct. The water is public property. But, the land beneath the water is privately owned in many cases. Many places you can float over private property but touching ground constitutes trespass.

 

[thataway]

A lot depends on state law--and not all states are the same. But in most states the actual state owns the land under the water, unless it is specifically deeded to the individual.

For example both Florida and Calif. hold that all of the land under public waters are state land. The exceptions relate to where there is a cut into land, for example a canal into an actual property--not just a canal for navigation. In most cases local approval, Corp of Engineers and DEP permits are necessary for moorings or docks. Also taxes or fees may be collected on the mooring or foot print under the mooring that the boat consumes. For example in Calif before I left in 1992 I paid over $800 a year to the state for the right to rent a slip from the city of Long Beach, for that land under the slip....! In Florida no fees, unless you collect even one dime of rent for a slip or mooring, then there is a state fee (last I checked it was 11 cents a year a sq foot.)

Calif is a bit ore complicated, since there have historically private moorings-a few are still in private hands, or controlled by entities such as yacht clubs who pay high fees for the use of facilities on places such as Catalina Island. (The fees are high enough to put some camps which had occupied the coves out of business--such as Boy Scouts or Y's). These moorings could be sold--and then that was changed to only passed on to family members. Newport Beach was an example where a mooring was registered to a boat (often a 12 foot skiff)--and then the boat was sold for thousands of dollars, and the new owner could register his boat and the beat up skiff to that mooring. There have been several Grand Jury investigations about this practice. I believe it still is continued.

I cannot comment of Miafun1's comment about water in Illinois, but I suspect it is involving smaller lakes,which may have property rights going back many years--not areas where there is interstate commerce such as rivers or coastal waters.

 

[DuckDogTitus]

I know when you are dealing with rivers, the owner can prevent entry across his land but he can't stop anyone from wading in the river through his land because the water belongs to the people of the State of Washington.
Just curious,
Forrest

Correct. The water is public property. But, the land beneath the water is privately owned in many cases. Many places you can float over private property but touching ground constitutes trespass.

exactly. i believe the property line in WA is determined by average high tide water mark. dropping anchor past that is trespassing. I recall this discussion from duck hunting years ago where you were required to be at anchor to shoot, but people weren't sure where to legally anchor.

 

[Moxieabs]

Maine is one of only a few states where you own to the low water mark on tidal waters, with one caveat: fowlers and fisherman can pass over the inter-tidal area unimpeaded to participate in those activities. So always carry a fishing pole or a shotgun when walking the shore!

 

[westward]

In Washington State, owners of waterfront property retain very few property rights re: the submerged portion of their parcels. The right to pay property taxes is the main right we keep. However, we do have the legal right to install and maintain one private mooring buoy per parcel. The buoy must be within a prescribed distance of the parcel, and meet very stringent DNR regulations re: design, construction, placement, etc. One may also apply for a DNR permit to install/maintain a private buoy, normally in an established mooring bay, near a community dock, etc. In addition to the installation rules, this type requires the payment of an initial fee, as well as annual fees for the right to maintain the moorage location. All installation/maintenance costs are borne by the applicant in all cases. I would definitely suggest asking first before using a private mooring for lots of reasons; there is no implied right to use another's mooring without permission. As mentioned here before, mooring installations vary in their design, installation, and level of maintenance. You could be risking your boat by hooking up to an inadequate mooring if the wind kicks up.

 

[ghone]

Huge pet peeve of mine! Customers at WM used to get cranky when I wouldn't design a mooring for them. I asked if they had made application to Fisheries and if they had acquired suitable anchor systems etc. most were planning to use an old engine block. Not even close to good enough. Moorings legally in BC need to at least notify Coast Guard and Fisheries. Also need to have owners name on them and contact number and suitable light at night. Also they need to not obstruct navigable channels. Try to anchor in Telegraph Harbour Thetis Island. Very few meet the requirements and are therefore not legal. Many BC harbours are near unusable for cruisers. Comox, Degnen Bay and Silva Bay and parts of Ladysmith and Maple Bay. As slip prices rise folks tend to turn to dropping a cheap mooring. Many derelict and near derelict vessels then get tied to these. Many places like Nanaimo and Pender Harbour go after owners with rules regarding sea worthiness and proper sanitation systems, but owners who won't comply simply move. Then some places either turn a blind eye or as Martin points out can't be bothered. As Bob points out it is folly to tie to gear you don't know about. Many places in BC are tight with moorings forcing cruisers onto short scopes. Last year in Comox's outer harbour we anchored in 100 ft on 130 ft rode due to crowded moorings. Good it was calm. In the am the nucklehead I was trying to not foul came along and retrieved 3!! Spacer balls that were fake moorings!!He said they were to keep enough space on his boat. Man!! Tie up in Comox marina or go inside the marina where the twin keelers go and settle on the beach. I was just in Gunboot Bay Pender Harbour and the prime spot to anchor was dominated by a mooring ball marked Private. No name phone # or light. I anchored so we ended up close by. It was empty at the time and I was waiting for an owner to come along. No one did so couldn't do my speech. As you can tell I'm a'gin em unless in properly designed fields for parks, marinas etc. I still don't use them except at Butchart Garden in Tod Inlet. There isn't a lot of room in there to anchor. They are a concern and a problem and my solution is to go to other places. Powell River has no moorings. Many good places are free of them so keep on moving. George

 

[starcrafttom]

I know what to get George for xmass... bolt cutter.

 

[Bris]

Don't know if this is true as it was second hand, but was told someone put in a buoy between Brown Is and San Juan Is and the fee to the state was 3k.