My Beautiful America

[Deluke]

If I agree with you that the countries you mentioned have great qualities.. I still say America is The Shining City on a hill and no other country has as many people lining up at the gates or slipping under the fence to get in. MY love, devotion, loyalty and admiration resides only with the United States of America. My citizenship demands it.

God, Family, Country.

As for MY children I agree they have no choice. They are mine.

Joshua 24:15
And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord

 

[NORO LIM]

. . . So you see whether the Pledge has Under God in it or not is a moot point if the parents are doing their job.

I am old enough to have recited the Pledge in school before the words "Under God" were inserted.

It is important to note, however, that the original Pledge did not say "Not under God." It was silent on the subject. It left the question of God's participation in the life of the country up to a kid's parents and the kid's own curiosity as he or she grew up. It is most certainly not a moot question if the parents of kids who want God in the pledge convince the government to strongarm other parents' kids into reciting something they don't believe in. The First Amendment is a wonderful thing. It should be respected by all.

Amen.

 

[hardee]

I grew up in a Christian home, with a Christian faith. I grew up in the United States of America. I grew up knowing that there were people who were different than me. Some looked different, some the same. Some believed different, some not. I had the privilege to serve on our country's Armed Forces, the Army, as a non-combatant (did not carry a weapon) in a war zone. I have the right to say I fought for the rights of those in our country.

Sandy, (and I'm sure Others),You and I may not agree on who, what or where, or IF about God, but I believe in your right to believe how you want, to make your own choices and to share your opinions.

"OH, and I believe that the pilgrims came to this country to find religious freedom, freedom to get out from under the oppressive religious practices of England, and to be able to have the freedom to practice their own religious beliefs. Not to promote one sect over another, but it was based on a belief in God as a Supreme power."

When I posted this it was only to bring in the historical facts. I firmly believe that if we follow the Golden Rule, each of us and our country would be far better off. (The Golden Rule is the principle of treating others as you want to be treated. It is a maxim that is found in many religions and cultures. It can be considered an ethic of reciprocity in some religions, although different religions treat it differently.)

What we need is a return to Patriotism, a belief in how great our country is.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[smckean (Tosca)]

Sandy, (and I'm sure Others),You and I may not agree on who, what or where, or IF about God, but I believe in your right to believe how you want, to make your own choices and to share your opinions.

Harvey, that's just how I see you, but that's not how I see many others. Maybe I owe an explanation.

I feel very confident in my beliefs, and I feel totally free to express myself here or anywhere. So why my "Please leave God out of this" posts? I have made several such posts in this forum over the years. If you look back, you will find that I never start such a conversation. I post on religious topics only when someone else brings God into the picture. A passing reference to a supernatural being is no big deal to me; but when the postings become smug and self congratulatory (e.g., American Exceptionalism), I say something. From my vantage point there is often a sort of "in the club" feeling that surrounds many of the repeated posts of strong Christians. It is sort of taken for granted that everyone ought to be Christian; it is implied that surely Christianity is THE ONLY true religion. It is also often implied that to be a true American, you really ought to be Christian.....America was founded as a Christian nation after all (a notion I don't accept BTW). Back in the 17th and 18th centuries, pretty much every one with a European hertiage was Christian. Our founding fathers (mothers) simply took it for granted....it was the water they swam in. Many founding fathers were deists rather than theists in order to intellectually reconcile rational thought (especially scientific thought) with the overbearing medieval superstition of fundamentalist views of Christianity (for example, believing that every single word in the Bible is 100% true....including all the miracles, and a 6000 year old universe).

Today is much different. Our global community puts many different religious systems in close proximity. The idea that my religion is the only true religion, and that yours, therefore, is false, is arrogant, insulting, close-mined, and even dangerous (just think how religious differences are often at the heart of wars). So when anyone, including folks on this forum, stray too far with their "God bless America", or "Saw a beautiful sunset today...isn't God's creation awesome", or even "May God bless you" sentiments, I speak up. Who are you to ask God to bless me? Did I ask for the blessing? Which God is doing the blessing anyway: Thor, Zeus, Woton, Allah, Odin, Apollo, Juno, Jupiter, Artemus or Neptune, not to mention Jehovah? In my observation strong Christians don't believe in any of those Gods except the last. I often quote the line that the only difference between me as an atheist and a believer is that I believe in one less God than they do.

It's that sense of entitlement and personal righteousness that so many American Christians exhibit that I can't condone. I feel an obligation to speak out against it. I fight against any religion that feels it has a right to evangelize others. Even in this thread such a entitled statement was made:

"It’s amazing what America can sound like when we’re singing the same song."

Because I guarantee you that folks who say such things have in mind that we are all to sing the song that they agree with. It would be more honest to say:

"It's amazing what America could sound like if we were all singing my song."

Sorry, I don't accept the inherent claim I detect in most true believers that their beliefs are what they are because they are true. They seem to say: "Of course my beliefs are true, why else would I believe them?" Allow me to quote Hamlet:

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

 

[Deluke]

Sandy

You know when you wrestle with a pig in the mud you soon realize the pig likes the mud. So... here we go.

If you will allow me to expound and possibly clarify my statements.
My first post mainly centered around the fact that if parents would teach their children to be honest, civil, and courteous to each other and if they want something then get out and earn it for themselves then our society would function more as a family instead of a tribal system where everyone is out for their own and Damn everyone else.

My second is if you don’t agree with something You have the ability to ignore it. If it triggers you then you have given it authority over your life.
We can argue till eternity on the merits of under God in the Pledge or under allah or the schools confounding genders, teaching homosexuality, abortion, or welfare you name the cause. At the end of the day our country was based on self governance. Which in my mind it is our own choice how we react to something we don’t agree with. We can get bent out of shape about it or we can take the responsibility to teach our children what we want them to believe. That responsibility is ours alone. I don’t mind my kids being exposed to things I don’t agree with because it gives me an opportunity to teach them to think instead of being blindsided and caught off guard by sheltering them and demanding the world change to suit their sensibilities.

Now to the rest.

I dont have the right to force you to believe like I do and never would because it’s a relationship not a religion.
Nor do you have the right to tell me I can’t speak freely of my faith when and where I want.

According to you you can’t have rational thought or be a scientist if you are a Christian. That seems really shallow and closed minded. I guess that means that I can’t grasp magnetism and free electrons in the atoms of conductors and molecular structures of objects, or mathematics or grasp the depths of space or photo synthesis in plants or any number of things because in your smugness I’m a blind dumb Christian and I couldn’t possibly have an intellect. That pattern of thought is folly.

Quote
It's amazing what America could sound like if we were all singing my song."

If anyone has ever listen to 3 or 4 siblings sing you know that there is a harmony that is unique to brothers and sisters. Sibling harmony. I believe that in a sense Americans are brothers and sisters because of their love of country. And when we sing together there is that sibling harmony.

I heard a coach one time say “a bit dog barks”

It seems as though when someone speaks of God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit that it hits pretty close to home to you and you get Angry or offended. Aka a bit dog barks.
Not telling you what to do but you might want to talk God about that and see if he can you help with it. Sorry I couldn’t help my sense of entitlement and personal righteousness.

I love you and would love to get to know you. I wish you felt differently about things.
Daniel Luke

These are some of my favorite quotes.

Proverbs 29:15
The rod and reproof give wisdom, but a child left to himself brings shame to his mother.

Proverbs 16:16
How much better to get wisdom than gold! To get understanding is to be chosen rather than silver.
Ecclesiastes
Who is like the wise? And who knows the interpretation of a thing? A man's wisdom makes his face shine, and the hardness of his face is changed.
Proverbs 4:7
The beginning of wisdom is this: Get wisdom, and whatever you get, get insight.
Ecclesiastes 7:12
For the protection of wisdom is like the protection of money, and the advantage of knowledge is that wisdom preserves the life of him who has it.

2Chronicles 1:7-12
In that night God appeared to Solomon, and said to him, “Ask what I shall give you.” And Solomon said to God, “You have shown great and steadfast love to David my father, and have made me king in his place. O Lord God, let your word to David my father be now fulfilled, for you have made me king over a people as numerous as the dust of the earth. Give me now wisdom and knowledge to go out and come in before this people, for who can govern this people of yours, which is so great?” God answered Solomon, “Because this was in your heart, and you have not asked for possessions, wealth, honor, or the life of those who hate you, and have not even asked for long life, but have asked for wisdom and knowledge for yourself that you may govern my people over whom I have made you king, wisdom and knowledge are granted to you.”

 

[hardee]

"America was founded as a Christian nation after all (a notion I don't accept BTW). Back in the 17th and 18th centuries, pretty much every one with a European hertiage was Christian..."

Sandy, Whether you choose to accept or not, the facts stand and

"Our founding fathers (mothers) simply took it for granted....it was the water they swam in." Implies that they did not take their religion seriously, when actually, they did and practiced it in their lives.

As I said in my earlier post, you have the right to believe as you like, What I think about your belief doesn't really matter to you, as you will continue to believe as you do. Which one of us is right remains to be seen.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[Deluke]

One last thing before I move on to our cool little boats.

Sandy said
I often quote the line that the only difference between me as an atheist and a believer is that I believe in one less God than they do.

I would say that there is another difference. You are angry and I am not. Because I don't complicate things that are simple.

I live in Deep South Georgia. I was raised in the house my Daddy was born in.
I look at life simply.

I love Jesus because He first loved me. And He said He would be my friend thru the darkest hours. And not to be anxious but for me to tell him what my troubles are and he would give me peace that surpasses all understanding. All I have to do is come to Him with all my problems and baggage and believe in him. That's a good enough for me.

My wife is the best wife. Are there other women out there. Sure there are. But she loves me and that makes her the best.

My grandchildren are the best. Are there other grandchildren out there sure there are. But mine are the best because they are part of me.

America is the greatest country in the world. Are there other countries sure there are. But my family has been here since the early 1700s. And have fought in every war starting with the War of Independence. The blood that was shed in those wars and the hands bleeding from digging stumps, picking cotton, and cutting steers and mending fences is the same blood that surges through my veins when I here the National Anthem or the Pledge of Allegiance. They used their right to own property to carve out fields from forest to make farm land to grow crops to feed their family Because they truly believed that you take care of your own. And then handed that land down. I now live 2 miles from the house my great grandfather built in the mid 1800s.

I have spent time in all but 8 states including Washington state. What I have found is there are people all over that live simply as I do and I'm no better or worse than they are and I'm proud to call them brothers and sisters.

If I may Id like to quote the late great Charlie Daniels.

What this world needs is a few more rednecks
Some people ain't afraid to take a stand
What this world needs is a little more respect
For the Lord and the law and the workin' man
We could use a little peace and satisfaction
Some good people up front to take the lead
A little less talk and a little more action
And a few more rednecks is what we need

I was raised on beans and cornbread
And I like my chicken fried
Yes, I drive a pickup truck
And I'm full of American pride
I keep a Bible on my table
I got a flag out on my lawn
And I don't believe in mindin'
No one's business but my own

What most people call a redneck
Ain't nothin' but a workin' man
And he makes his livin'
By the sweat of his brow
And the calluses on his hands
Now you intellectuals may not like it
But there ain't nothin' that you can do
Cause there's a whole lot more of us common-folks
Then there ever will be of you