Need for kicker?

colbysmith

colbysmith

Active member
Ok, I know the single vs. twin, single with kicker, argument has been debated and run into the ground many times. That being said, I'd like to hear from others using their boats to run 6-10 miles offshore, and how many are doing so single screw with no kicker. At this time, I have a single 115 hp EFI merc on my 2007 CD-22 Cruiser. Outboard is a 2007 also. I use to own a 1988 Searay 268 Sundancer, single screw with the Merc 454. I had no problems or concerns running that distance offshore, but I was also comfortable with maintaining that car-like IO. I don't have that comfortable knowledge of the outboard, but I believe the modern 4 stroke EFI's are pretty dependable. And I am mechanically inclined... But again, just don't have the experienced confidence with outboards yet. SOooo, without getting the usual conversation of two being better than one, what has been the dependability of the newer outboards, and what kinds of problems could crop up on them that one with mechanical abilities could reasonably repair and limp in on, or that would shut it down completely with no hope for repair on the water? I had been thinking about getting a kicker, but really don't want the added weight or expense if it's not necessary. I do carry an anchor with about 150' of line and a sea drogue/anchor, along with a spare prop and a tool kit. My other question is, if I do end up getting a kicker, how do most have it set up for steering and throttle? (I assume most have steering linked to main, but what about throttle?)
 
Would not go offshore without a kicker of some type, and usually try to partner up with another boat. Easy for a prop hit,something wrapped around the prop, or bad gas. Does not take a lot, and the kicker is important. I use a separate tank also, so a totally independent system. It is kind of like insurance -- do not want to need it, but I would not be without it. Even if you do not use it to get home, it can keep you out of trouble -- off of rocks -- some control until real help arrives. I think it is as important as a vhf radio, life preservers, and the like, maps for gps backup, compass, and depth sounder -- and toilet paper. Digger :wink
 
A new Poll:

If you have a kicker, have you had to use it to limp home?




I am one of those.
Once when I got fishing line wrapped around the prop of the main and had to tuck inside to a calm bay (from outside) to unwrap.
And a second time when I had water get in the main (could have limped in with a stutter on the main)

I was wondering if one could put oarlocks and use long oars on a 22. But the problem would be storing the oars



A kicker is standard fare in these parts. Not so much in Florida. I don't know about Wisconsin.

We call it a come-home kicker. When you do have an issue with your main do you come home on your own, or call for a tow? :lol: :roll:
 
Had the main engine over temp last spring and used the kicker to get into the harbor to investigate the problem. Turns out it was a stuck thermostat. Not a big deal and not problem to pull the thermostat and run without it. It would not have been much fun hanging on the swim step in seas to make repairs and could have been dangerous depending on where it happened.

I don't have near the experience of most here but sure like the idea of redundancy whether it be a twin or kicker.
 
I too have been miles out in the bay and the main failed. Had a kicker that got me in. I wasn't in any danger but the kicker paid for itself just that one time. Tow bills from sea are very expensive! The other great thing is a kicker can be used to charge the batteries or enjoy a lazy cruise. Why run a 10k motor when not needed? Kicker :thup :thup
 
Our 9.9 kicker has saved us from disaster on a rocky lee shore at least twice - when kelp had blocked the water intakes and caused the main to overheat. Also brought us back 12 miles or so twice after engine or sterndrive problems, once from part way up into Glacier Bay. And another time when steering let go right in a crowded harbor, with other boats only yards away.

We could have been saved by a tow in only two of these situations. After 40,000 nm cruising, I've had enough such adventures to really love my kicker. Oh, and it's great for salmon trolling.

i do make sure my kicker is running well at the beginning and end of every summer cruise, and I use it frequently through the summer. Basic maintenance is simple but important. Every time we really needed it in a hurry our kicker started right away.
 
We have been boating in florida for over 20 years and all 7 boats have had single engines .With that said I did have one occasion to use sea tow (boat us) where we lost our comp prop (fiberglass composite prop) We were towed back the bill came to over 440 do I wish I had a spare yes indeed . When we do our boat trips we usually do it with a few other boats and we carry 2 anchors with enough line for the Gulf of mexico .and also a working VHF radio.

If we lived in Puget Sound or went out in the Pacific or the atlantic oceans or up to Alaska I would have twins in fact if buying new for sure twin 60"s . We maintain our f115 yamaha with oil and filter changes and do what yamaha calls for every year . timing belt valves adjusted at 500 hrs also .new water pump every 2 yrs we also have boat us tow service and lots of boating friends .

if we started doing more boating outside of florida in other areas I would probably get Sea tow and boat us for insurance and put that jack plate on and put on a 6-8hp kicker . Protected water and insurance gives a little more peace of mind .
 
Colby
I use my kicker for backup and a lot for trolling and agree with the other Brat's answers so I will go to your other question.
My 9.9 has the same full remote control as the main, except that the steering is connected by a rod off the main.
In previous boats I had, I would be rushing to the back to tilt or put in forward or reverse or adjust the throttle. Now I run this one from the captains chair and love it that way and I would recommended that set up.
If I did not have the remote control, then I would go with the regular tiller model and run it from the back like a runabout.
have fun.
Ed
 
On our CD22 we steered the kicker by its tiller, which was easy on that boat, after we moved the kicker to the correct side. Which side? I can't remember.

On New Moon, steering the kicker by its tiller was painful - I had to reach down to it, and steering was really difficult because the tiller arm could not lay out horizontally once I lowered its mount to get it into the water. We now steer ours from any of the main engine helms, thanks to connecting the kicker with an EZ-Steer. We thought steering would be much more important than throttle control, and for us that seems to be correct.
 
I guess I should add, I do have the Boat US Sea Tow package, and most my off shore boating is on Lake Michigan or Lake Superior. Even then, there are usually other boats in sight. I do plan on doing some Salmon fishing, but not a lot. Edwin thanks for sharing about the remote control. For those with the kickers, how efficient are they if you are in heavy weather/water? I have a swim platform on the port side, so a kicker would have to go starboard. Guess my next couple of questions would be, how much Horse Power, how much cost and how much weight? New vs. used? I'd also still like to hear from others than only run a main. It sounds like most commenting here have twins or a main with a kicker. However, still see a lot of outboards with only one main, and many single IO's with out kickers. But then I'm looking at inland lakes and rivers, and the great lakes. I don't see myself getting into salt water, unless I take a dream trip to the San Juans or up the Intercoastal to Alaksa.
 
I have been testing props (over the weekend) and thinking electric possibilities on this but the conclusion for the money/results still points to a gas powered kicker of even the smallest size. It may be just a few trips per year that I reeeeally want it, but that makes it worthwhile enough for us on our current boat.
 
I can think of a couple who run with main alone. Not to "call them out" if they don't feel like responding, but I'm not sure how often they read all threads. Perhaps you could PM them to see if they'd like to discuss it.

1) Chris of Rana Verde runs with just a main (Yamaha 75hp). I believe he has made some longer trips with that setup.

2) George and Carolyn of Kerri-On run with just a main (Yamaha 90).

I guess the main (ha) thing to me would be... which are you comfortable with? That's how I would set it up. (But, I also understand your asking people about their setups, because I have considered eliminating the kicker on my boat, but I just don't *know* what I'm comfortable with yet, and besides, I always like to gather information and hear other points of view anyway.)

In diving there is always a similar question (but with less room to carry things!) which is..... how far out do you carry "what if" scenarios and which ones do you cover? Do you carry backups? Backups for backups? Etc. There are some things that are generally considered to be almost "no brainers," but there are quite a few things that are up for debate/consideration. And people who do it successfully on both extremes, as well as in the middle.

An awful lot of people are up in the air with single-engine planes (and when they do crash it often seems to be something besides engine trouble), but.... they are comfortable with it (whereas I don't like to fly with even a dozen engines :D)

Sunbeam
 
With 860 hours on the Honda 90 on my C-Dory I've never needed the kicker.

I've wrapped kelp around the cooling water intakes twice, which necessitated a brief shutdown each time, but the main engine was running again within 60 seconds. I couldn't have gotten the kicker running any faster. Both times I was in calm water and I could have safely drifted for a very long time. Otherwise, the Honda has started every time I've turned the key on and stayed running until I turned it off.

I didn't have a kicker on the boat until I went to Alaska last summer. I figured backup power was a prudent investment given the remoteness of the areas I was traveling in. I run it every time I use the boat, and at least every couple days when I'm out cruising, just to keep it exercised. I'm not a fan of the extra weight and expense, but it is comforting to know that I have a backup available.
 
colbysmith":3l65uvsl said:
For those with the kickers, how efficient are they if you are in heavy weather/water? I have a swim platform on the port side, so a kicker would have to go starboard. Guess my next couple of questions would be, how much Horse Power, how much cost and how much weight?
Click to expand...

When we took our CD22 to cruise SE Alaska, we had a 2-stroke Suzuki 9.9hp kicker. It saved our behinds in huge waves in a very dangerous situation, described in this link:

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... ght=piehle

Seems to me you could handle most situations with 8hp, maybe even only 6.

A Yamaha 8hp 2-stroke (used) would be about 60lb. About the same for a 6hp 4-stroke. Don't know about cost.
 
NewMoon":1d4jmatj said:
colbysmith":1d4jmatj said:
For those with the kickers, how efficient are they if you are in heavy weather/water? I have a swim platform on the port side, so a kicker would have to go starboard. Guess my next couple of questions would be, how much Horse Power, how much cost and how much weight?
Click to expand...

When we took our CD22 to cruise SE Alaska, we had a 2-stroke Suzuki 9.9hp kicker. It saved our behinds in huge waves in a very dangerous situation, described in this link:

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... ght=piehle

Seems to me you could handle most situations with 8hp, maybe even only 6.

A Yamaha 8hp 2-stroke (used) would be about 60lb. About the same for a 6hp 4-stroke. Don't know about cost.
Click to expand...

This video I took during our last summers cruise shows us maneuvering through intricate Peihle Passage, the site of Richard's close call & save by having a kicker. We fortunately passed through Peihle Passage both going south & north with good weather & calm seas. The last minute or so of the video is where Richard lost is main & went to kicker in huge seas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P63pHKGBoTY

Jay
 
Thanks again for the comments from everyone. Sunbeam, I echo your thoughts about how many backups? I am comfortable with just the single Main, if it's been shown that the new EFI outboards are very dependable. Again, I'm in somewhat protected waters, or other boats are near by, I'm mechanically inclined, and I have emergency gear. If I did end up getting a kicker, I'm going to want one that will do more than just barely keep my bow in the waves in heavy weather/water. That's when a break down with the main is probably going to be life threatening. Other times may be an inconvenience...but what is the trade off for cost and additional weight? Colby
 
The CD22's hull speed, determined by its length, is the limitation, unless you have enough power to get up on plane.

An 8 or 9.9 will do 5-6 knots (speed relative to the water), and you really can't make much use of a little more, like 15 or 20.
 
I have posted on this issue, more than once--but with new people the subject does come up again peroidically.

I grew up in an era where you were responsible for yourself on the water--that still holds true in many places, including SE AK, often way out in the Gulf of Mexico, and many other places where Sea Tow does not exist. I don't have a towing service and never will. I have towed more boats than I can remember--some were way out at sea, others were only a few miles from their camp site.

I have made 30 plus miles in my inflatable dinghy--and on those trips with a 15 or 25 hp main, I have a 2.5 to 4 hp "Kicker" in the inflatable.

I use the dinghy motor as a "Kicker" Currently I have a 3.5 2 stroke Merc, and it will push the C Dory 22 in excess of 3 knots. The kicker is to get you to safety--where you can fix the main motor--or work out a plan to get back home.

There was a recent post in The Hull Truth about kickers and kicker size. One fellow had a 15 hp and the weight was about 110 lbs--too big te easily get on his dinghy. Then he went to a 8 hp --about 65 lbs-=OK can get on the dinghy--but difficult--both of those engines gave his boat about 5 mph. Finally he went to a 3.5 hp--the boat (similar to a C Dory--would go 4 mph with the 3.5 hp--and his conclusion after using it for a few years, was that was a far better solution

Unless you want to add a Guerhart Davit, (or even if you do, with a 3.5), or you want an 8 hp for your dinghy--and rarely see a reason for that, since the C Dory will take you almost anywhere. (Different story if your large boat is 45 feet--and you want a dinghy which will plane and go long distances at high speed).

Go with the 3.5 hp or what works best on your dinghy (I feel that 2 hp is too little--there are some 2.5 hp (suzuki) which seem to be about the same thrust as the 3.5 HP--that smaller motor will get you out of trouble, it will work on the dinghy. Go with a tiller extension on the dinghy type of motor. Avoid carrying a 3.5, a 9.9 high trust and a main 90 hp! So far I have not had an outboard problem I could not fix on the water--this spans over 60 years of owning outboard powered boats. I have run out of gas once in an inboard--and used a 2 hp to push a 25 foot Sea Skiff (considerably heavier than a C Dory 25) back to the dock about 5 miles. That incident was about 52 years ago...Lesson learned.
 
thataway":bwogf9b7 said:
<stuff clipped> So far I have not had an outboard problem I could not fix on the water--this spans over 60 years of owning outboard powered boats. <more stuff clipped>
Click to expand...
What I take away from this is that it would be best if you can carry Bob on board but if not, a kicker is a really good idea. :wink:
 
Back
Top