On the Water Report

L

Les Lampman

New member
Greetings!

[In the interest of full disclosure, for those of you who don't know me, I'm a Marinaut dealer. This post is NOT intended to "advertise" the boat per se but I know a lot of folks are really interested in how the boat rides and performs...I wanted to know myself. I'm writing what follows like any other boater and not as "the dealer" (trying to spin hype).]

I finally got to spend a full day on the Marinaut doing exactly what most of us love to do...just enjoy the boat! I thought I'd pass along my thoughts and observations here.

I asked my best friend if he'd like to join me for a boat ride and he said "yes" right away so we made plans to get together on Sunday (June 5th). My friend Mike bought a brand new 1995 C-Dory and still has it (it originally had the Johnson 70 we repowered it with a Honda BF75 many years ago) so I was interested to get his take on the boat. Plus it's just great to get out with a friend and hang out.

We launched at Cornet Bay just inside Deception Pass and ended up at Roche Harbor with a few detours along the way then headed back home on a winding path. We got the opportunity to run the Marinaut in water conditions from flat, to tide rips, to large boat wakes, and sometimes a mixture of all.

The short version of the report is that we both came back with big grins on our faces and ready to plan the next Marinaut outing.

What I'd say most about the boat is that the sum of the parts is greater than any one part alone. Taken as a whole the boat is just a great combination of size, comfort, ease of operation, and performance (including fuel burn). It really just felt good to be on the boat and I was enjoying it as much when we got back as when we left. For me that says a lot.

So how 'bout some particulars...

We decided to not pay attention to the tachometer and/or GPS speed other than to check it for reporting purposes. What I didn't want to do was get fixated on running a particular speed or rpm based on Mike's or my past experience with other boats. This was helped by the fact that this particular boat is powered with an E-TEC 90 and has the I-Command digital gauge that neither of us could see without getting close to it and being at just the right angle...I hate digital gauges!

We stopped a lot for sightseeing and slowed down quite often to take a look at something interesting so we had lots of opportunities to come back up to cruising speed. I found we routinely ended up at about 18 knots. Mike did all the driving on our trip and sometimes after he settled into a cruise speed I'd ask him to increase it so I'd know if he chose the speed he did out of a comfort situation. The answer was no. If we were at 18 knots then 20 knots was also comfortable. The reason for ending up at 18 knots tended to be a combination of feel, hull noise, and engine sound. Also, Mike is used to cruising at about 13 to 14 knots in his C-Dory 22 so 18 to him felt "way fast". We both agreed in many circumstances that we would have been uncomfortable in his boat at the same speeds (and we've spent lots of time in his doing the same route we did Sunday).

The two characteristics that I most noted on the Marinaut 215 were cushioning and roll response. We crossed several areas of tide rips and lots of large boat wakes (some really big ones!). In all cases when the Marinaut dropped its bow over a wave we got a very nice cushioning effect that didn't slam the boat. We also took some of the larger wakes beam on to see how the boat would do. I love the roll on the Marinaut, it's easy enough in the beginning to soften the blow, it doesn't go far over when it rolls, and it dampens out remarkably well.

I noticed Mike had a tendency to run the boat flatter than I normally do. Because of the elongated waterline, that pulls the bow wake quite far forward and trimmed like that (while comfortable) makes for a wet ride. I've insisted on 3 wipers up front (all front windows) and I'm glad I did. I noticed that as soon as we slowed down for larger wakes and rips that the bow dropped down and nicely cut through, then launched a fair amount of water on the front windows (and this happens regardless of trim).

The roll trim of the boat is impressive. If I moved to the same side as Mike (at the helm) in the cockpit the boat would lean a bit to that side (but not by much). As soon as the boat started coming up on plane it would roll itself almost flat. We spent the whole day (from 10 AM to 7 PM) out on the water; the trim tabs were never used. I'd still want them on my boat though since fully loaded boats are more likely to see imbalances and it's nice to be able to level the boat.

I could hardly believe how well the Marinaut attenuated its roll. As we got more comfortable with the boat we let several large wakes hit us beam on. In every case the boat rolled to dissipate some wave energy, rolled at a comfortable speed, then came back up and dampened the roll without a lot of acceleration loads. It reminded me of finding the perfect shocks for a vehicle...good ride and nice handling. Passengers that are a little more skittish about a boat rolling will appreciate the Marinaut.

Since Sunday was such a nice weather day we also had occasion to appreciate the tinted windows and the ventilation available.

I'm finding that we can count on about 4 NMPG for fuel economy but keep in mind the Marinaut we're running is still light. At our typical 18 knot cruise we were burning about 4.5 GPH. This is with the E-TEC 90. The Marinaut that's in production and sold will get a Honda BF115 (same engine as the 135/150) and I'll be interested to see how it performs. For now I'd feel comfortable telling someone that they're likely to see 3.5 to 4 NMPG, at least until we do more testing.

I found the boat noisier than I'd like. I think some of this is attributable to the E-TEC. I found I didn't care for it that much on this hull but Mike liked it a lot. It's not a very smooth engine just off idle and it rattled many things on the boat when we were a slow speeds and there's a resonance to it that reverberates through the hull. I think we're going to add some insulation to the new Marinauts to quiet it down a bit. I'd love to be able to listen to some nice music underway and I don't feel like I could do that now.

The other thing I should mention I really liked is the tracking. Even when running in rougher conditions I've found that the wheel can be left untended for quite some time and the boat stays on course. It seems to have no tendency for the bow to hunt.

Well, there you have it. I hoped that answers some questions and gives those interested some perspective as to how the boat runs out.

Les
 
Les,

That was the one thing I noticed with the ETEC that didn't occur with a Honda or Yamaha. The noise harmonics at certain RPMs were just plain uncomfortable.
 
Les, thanks for a great report.

For those of you who don't know Les or EQ Marine check past threads. You can make book on what he says. Period.

Casey
 
Les, it sounds like you have a winner. Keep the reports coming, and we wish the best for you and the Marinaut.

Jay and Penny
 
OK Les, how much will a well cared for CD25 be worth on a trade-in for the Marinaut :wink: . Just kidding. But it does sound like an excellent candidate for the next generation of this style of boat in a 22ish size. Great report!
 
As far as the digital gauges- I found the factory contrast setting to be very hard to read, but adjusting it to about 30% makes the gauge very readable.

I wonder if a Vibra Stop isolation pad would help with the harmonic? I noticed on a 22 C-Dory we repoqered with twin 60 E-Tecs that at a certain RPM there was a harmonic through the boat, but I think that was as much because the engines weren't prefectly in synch as anything else.

I'll be interested to see how the Honda 115 performs since it's 150 pounds heavier than the 90 E-Tec.
 
I am not a fan of heavy motors but after I drove the marinaut at friday harbor I think a little weight on the aft end would be a good thing.

what is the lightest 115 on the market??
also with the honda 90 fuel injected motor making more then 90 hp why not use that motor instead?
 
Matt Gurnsey":1rramra4 said:
As far as the digital gauges- I found the factory contrast setting to be very hard to read, but adjusting it to about 30% makes the gauge very readable.

I wonder if a Vibra Stop isolation pad would help with the harmonic? I noticed on a 22 C-Dory we repoqered with twin 60 E-Tecs that at a certain RPM there was a harmonic through the boat, but I think that was as much because the engines weren't prefectly in synch as anything else.

I'll be interested to see how the Honda 115 performs since it's 150 pounds heavier than the 90 E-Tec.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info on the contrast Matt, I messed with it a little bit but didn't spend a lot of time on it. When you wear trifocals (now progressive lenses) those digital gauges are just harder to read. There's a reason the automotive industry got away from them. :)

I'm anxious to see how the BF115 does as well. I can tell you when I move my 210 pound carcass to back of the cockpit and sit if front on the motor it doesn't affect the boat trim much at all so I think that weight is not going to be an issue at all.

Les
 
starcrafttom":2zvqnzrl said:
I am not a fan of heavy motors but after I drove the marinaut at friday harbor I think a little weight on the aft end would be a good thing.

what is the lightest 115 on the market??
also with the honda 90 fuel injected motor making more then 90 hp why not use that motor instead?
Click to expand...

Hi Tom,

I agree, I think a bit of weight aft is going to be helpful.

We'd like to try the Tohatsu 115 TLDI on the M215 (now my short hand for the Marinaut 215) as well to see how it does. It's pretty light too at 399 pounds.

I think the BF90 would work fine and there's no reason not to use it. However, the BF135/150 has really proven to be (IMHO) the best outboard Honda has produced. We've had about zero issues with them, they get great economy, they're quiet and smooth; the BF115 is the same engine and it's hard to pass up that heritage. The M215 will handle the weight easily enough and the BF115 is going to be very quiet and have lots of mid-range toque with its 2.4 liter size.

Potentially the M215 could be a fairly heavy boat if someone chooses to load up with fuel (up to 98 gallons) and put aboard stores for an extended trip so having the extra oomph will be a nice thing.

Also, the M215 looks like it's going to cruise at a bit higher speed than a CD22 and while the BF90 wouldn't be pushed the BF115 is going to be running a bit easier with a 2.14:1 gear ratio versus the BF90's 2.33:1 ratio.

Les
 
Matt Gurnsey":j82h75ax said:
I wonder if a Vibra Stop isolation pad would help with the harmonic? I noticed on a 22 C-Dory we repoqered with twin 60 E-Tecs that at a certain RPM there was a harmonic through the boat, but I think that was as much because the engines weren't prefectly in synch as anything else.
Click to expand...

I should have said earlier (and in my report) that I like the E-TEC engines in general. Dad and I had an E-TEC 90 on a Klamath 19 that I just loved and when I outfitted a CD22 with an E-TEC 90 it worked well. That engine is great on an Arima 17 as well.

For some reason it just doesn't seem to be the best "fit" on the M215. I don't think it's the engine or the boat specifically but rather it's the combination. The engine needs a different prop and that might help and the boat needs some sound deadening (it's no worse that the Arima or C-Dory 22 but I'd like it quieter).

We also had Klamath 16 with an E-TEC 50 on it and I rigged out an Arima 16 with the E-TEC 60. Those engines are really smooth so I'd have to agree with the sync on twins being the biggest culprit.

I'll have to look into the Virbra Stop, thanks for the suggestion.

Les
 
C-Hawk":bip5wg1f said:
Les-

Is it possible to rig the M215 with twin engines.

Thanks for all of your information.
Click to expand...

Hi Roger,

The short answer is "no". I copied the following from a response I made on another thread so apologies to those that have read it already.

----------
Making design decisions on a boat is really a blend of practicalities and most everyone knows full well that a boat (and most other things in life!) is one floating set of compromises. In looking at the Marinaut I can see that choosing to have the motorwell accommodate twins would have impacted:
- the space allocated for batteries
- the space allocated for aux fuel tanks
- the space allocated for aft storage
- the dash (more space needed for more gauges)
- The helm seating area, in particular the space needed for twin engine controls.
- the space for a larger swim platform with hand rails.

It would have also impacted the basic premise of what one thinks the boat is, or is to be, at the design stage. For instance, when you look at the transom area of the Marinaut there's not much doubt that water will stay outside the boat. Not only is there a full height forward motorwell bulkhead but the horizontal area (deck) around the motorwell is fully enclosed. There's not much volume in the single motor well so even a breaking wave dumping in it is not going to affect the boat very much.

Does that make a big difference? I don't know. From a practical standpoint you don't hear a lot about C-Dory 22's getting pooped but there's something to be said for what a transom like the Marinaut has lends to the psychology of perceived safety (which means comfort to many folks).

It also happens to look good (to my eye) and I'm sure that played a part as well.

In the long run I think it was mostly about simplicity (since several things on the boat would have to be quite different for twins), aesthetics, and the fact that modern outboards are very reliable (a space for a "kicker" was designed in from the start for back up).

Market wise, except for larger boats that need the horsepower, most outboard powered boats are single engine. In fact this is also true of the C-Dory 22. Although there are quite a few twin engine CD22s this is a bit of an anomaly in general (for this size boat) and percentage-wise most CD22 are singles.

From a technical perspective it's not proven that twin engines are safer or superior to a single engine; it's still very much a personal and subjective choice (except for cats and boats that need more horsepower than one engine can provide). For every situation where twins would win the day an opposite situation for a single engine being the better choice can be presented. It's really a no-win argument from a technical (objective) viewpoint. [Most serious long-range motor cruisers are single engine (many with a back up system); it's been shown for years that it's the most efficient way to go from a cost and maintenance perspective.]

The single engine only design of the Marinaut provides room for aux tanks (built-in or portable), or room to store fenders and lines and other items, and gives the cockpit a much larger "feel". It also meant the helm space could be more compact and along with no port side forward cabin bulkhead that lends the cabin a more open feel. With a couple of (throwable type) cushions the space to either side of the motorwell proves a couple of nice seats; that area also provides space to install a bait well if desired. All those things would have had to have been given up if the transom were opened up for twins.

Ultimately you take your best thoughts about how the boat will be used, who will use it, and what things you want to incorporate into the boat and make your best decision (as a designer) as to what will fit the best and how you can meet the most expectations. I think when most folks see the open space under the motorwell area in the Marinaut if you then asked them if they'd trade that space for the ability to have twin engines the answer would typically be "no". Of course that wouldn't be everyone's answer but I do personally feel after all the CD22s we've sold and rigged and repowered that at the end of the day it's not really a significant consideration for most folks. And most will fit an auxiliary bracket on the port side and carry a kicker for fishing and/or backup use.

--------

Did we get it right for everyone? I don't think so. But the impact of designing the transom and helm to accept twins was just too great and took away too much of what was good for the majority of the folks that are likely to purchase the M215.


Thanks for the question!

Les
 
Hello Roger,

My wife and I have ordered Marinaut Boat Company Hull #1. We decided to have a Honda BF115 O/B as the main engine, and will install a 9.8 HP Tohatsu kicker motor with: a) 20-inch long shaft, b) electric start, c) Garelick Offshore 71090/71091 o/b bracket, d) EZ Troll, and e) Troll Master (wired to cabin). This will enable us to control the kicker from the cabin, while traveling along at approximately 5.2 knots. So really, we have two engines that can be controlled from the helm.

When we first had our CD 16 Cruiser with a Suzuki O/B, we had 5 failures on the water. Our kicker motor got us home four of those times. In New England, there is a lot of debris in the water. One could see a situation where with two engines in the water, one could easily spin both props on a log or large branch. Having a kicker stored out of the water truly gives us comfort that we have a second engine to get us home in emergencies. Lastly, we like gunkholing. There were times we got in so deep that we could not operate the main engine. A kicker can be set to shallow water operation, and even in the Marinaut, I believe we will only need 12 inches of water to operate the motor. At any rate, this is what I think it will do. I'll report back to the group on shallow water operation with a kicker, if anyone is interested, when we receive the boat.

Thanks!

Rich
 
C-Hawk":38e5djs7 said:
Les-

Is it possible to rig the M215 with twin engines.

Thanks for all of your information.
Click to expand...

I like the twins on our 22 a lot.
I would trade them for a single+kicker for the advantages of the M215 transom setup though.
 
C-Hawk,

You are certainly right on the Marinaut transom set-up. Not having fuel tanks under the transom (the two saddle fuel tanks are in the gunnels) and the height of the space underneath the splashwell frees enormous space for storage. We fell in love with its design from the onset.

Rich
 
I recommend that everyone take a few minutes to look at the Marinaut 215 web site. Pay some special attention to the "history" links, and year by year development of the hull lines and molds. For those who have never been involved with boat building it shows the painstaking care which goes into making a good set of molds. In todays world many boats are made by CAD and then a computer driven router in foam which forms the new plug for the mold. I like the "old fashioned way"....

My own experience with outboards is that they are extremely reliable and I feel very comfortable with one, but being conservative, I do carry a kicker of some sort. (Even a dinghy motor will do)..
 
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