Salvage Rights

F

forrest

New member
I have been taking a Coast Guard Auxiliary class and maritime salvage rights have came up in class discussion. The instructor stated that a fireman putting out a dock fire untied an adjacent boat so it wouldn't be damaged. The fireman handed the lines to a bystander to hold the boat. The bystander claimed salvage rights and became he new owner of the boat. The boats previous owner's insurance company had to buy the boat back. If the owner hadn't had insurance he would have been SOL. The instructor went on further to say that should anyone give you a tow, that you must say to the tower, that you are not giving salvage rights to them for giving you a tow and to have your passengers witness that. I guess if you are by yourself you might want to call the Coast Guard on the radio and make that fact known. He did mention that one towing company does have a tract record of claiming salvage on their tows. I won't say their name.

This is from Wikipedia:
Private boat owners, to protect themselves from salvage laws in the event of a rescue, are advised to indicate clearly "no salvage" prior to accepting a line or other help, and to inform the rescuer that a fixed amount will be paid for assistance to a safe harbor. If this is not done, the salvor becomes the legal owner of the vessel.

I realize that I don't have a C-Dory but I thought this was to important not to post. To the purists I apologize.
Forrest
 
I've heard the same thing in my CGA meetings. The outfit in question is SeaTow and I've actually talked to the captain who did this. He says salvage is a form of a lien, like a contractor would put on a house, in order to secure payment for services rendered.

That's his side. It seems the local Yachties and the CGA members have a different view. It did settle in court but I don't know the amount.

Personally, I belong to SeaTow and have enjoyed their services. Twice I've needed them and they have promptly came out to the dock and fixed my problem for free.

He even gave me a Yellow SeaTow cup which is used for piddlin purposes. Whenever we go on patrol, I brief the coxswain and crew, "Never, never drink out of the SeaTow cup." :huh:

This issue was reported in a fair article in Sea Magazine. It's probably on-line by now.

-Greg
 
For salvage to be claimed, the vessel has to be in peril. A boat that has engine failure but is anchored safely or a soft grounding would not be considered "salvagable".

A hard grounding, an abandoned vessel, a vessel that is being blown on to a lee shore, or a vessel that is posing a danger to the environment is subject to salvage.

The salvage has to be "voluntary" and "successful".

In the instance above, the boat was in danger of catching fire, the salvage (moving the boat) was done voluntarily, and it was successful.
 
I have not researched salvage rights, but the example above does not pass the common sense test. Imagine how many transfers of ownership would be happening in one typical day of cruising? Ha ha - the deck hand at the fuel dock, all of my guests helping with docking, etc. I don't buy it....I think the bystander who took the lines on the request of the fireman, if he indeed claimed salvage, would be lucky he was not arrested for theft long before a valid claim of salvage ownership could be made.
 
matt_unique":2yeknr4c said:
I have not researched salvage rights, but the example above does not pass the common sense test. Imagine how many transfers of ownership would be happening in one typical day of cruising? Ha ha - the deck hand at the fuel dock, all of my guests helping with docking, etc.
Click to expand...

Matt, have never seen you bring a boat into a fuel dock but if it's in peril and you hand the deck hand a line, watch out! :shock: :D

Charlie
 
matt_unique":157pbdti said:
I have not researched salvage rights, but the example above does not pass the common sense test.
Click to expand...

Since when do laws have to pass the common sense test ? :roll:
 
I would question that the first mentioned vessel is truely salvage. There are some very definate admirality laws which control what is and is not salvage.

Generally There must be proof that marine peril from tides, waves, winds, land, reefs, fire, etc. is imminent. The services must be voluntary, with no pre-existing agreement to render salvage, and also if there was a successful operation to save persons, property or the environment. The salvor can then submit a salvage award claim to the owner or to the insurance company of the salved vessel. There is no automatic ownership of the vessel just because a person takes a line.

I have rendered assistant to well over 100 boats in my lifetime, and never considered asking for salvage--even in some cases which took considerable time, cost me money and even potentially put my boat in peril. On the other hand, in some cases, I have stood by a vessel when a towing service or Coast Guard, had been called. I accepted help one time--it was from a tug, and I had lost the transmission coming into a lock. The tug charged me $100 (I had thought it would have been considerably more--he had noticed my problem and come without being called)--and another vessel took me to a military facility (British Kiel Yacht Club--in Germany--no charge, and the mechanics there helped me to repair the transmission. Help other mariners--what goes around comes around.

See:
http://www.safesea.com/boating_info/sal ... _main.html (especially the section by Anderson).

Another read is at the Boat US web site:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... i_n6117642
 
I have been in the fire and rescue biz for a while. First I would like to say that here in charleston the coast guard station is a buoy tending station. Should you need help they will come and get you but not your vessel. We could recall the "morning Dew" that called a mayday and they did not respond. The sailing vessel was found the next morning on the rocks. The people on board died. We do not tow boat's at the fire dept but we will come get you or stand-by while sea tow is enroute. Should you tow anyone you are taking responsibility for there boat as well as the people on board. Make the people on board wear pfd's. There may be some good samaritan laws that could help you should someone get hurt. We do not even call sea tow for people. We take them a phone to do so them self. We call. we pay. On your routes up and down the coast be aware of your nearest coast guard stations. Not all are equipped for rescue. They will not go into inland waters in some areas. To be honest it is like pulling teeth here in charleston to get them to leave the dock.
 
When I purchased my newest boat (Antibody) several months ago, I looked into and decided to document my vessel with the Dept of Homeland Security, Nat'l Vessel Documentation Center, USCG - for several good reasons. The discussion/decision was not based upon this topic/thread, but I spent a fair amount of time researching Admirality Maritime Law when going through the process of federal documentation. I spent some time reviewing case law and how it applied to law suits, transfer of ownership, legal rights, etc. - all-in-all, I was happy I made the decision to document the vessel. I have a couple of the site links still in my browser, and the one which comes to mind is listed below:

http://law.freeadvice.com/admiralty_maritime/salvage_and_treasure/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiralty_law

BTW, the are to examine on the Wikipedia site is enclosed down the page under the title:
Salvage and treasure salvage
Click to expand...
.

Wikipedia is really pretty good for lots of things. I have grown to respect the dialogue in Wikipedia because the text is often written by professionals in the industry; and, if not, the text is generally sent to experts for review/editting before being posted.

Also to note, marine salvage under Admiratily Law only applies to oceans and seas - it does not apply to inland bodies of water. I'm not exactly certain how that would apply to an incident inside the Panama Canal or along the St. Lawrence Seaway and like bodies of water. :smiled
 
cbull":1zrrlbyz said:
I have been in the fire and rescue biz for a while. First I would like to say that here in charleston the coast guard station is a buoy tending station. Should you need help they will come and get you but not your vessel. We could recall the "morning Dew" that called a mayday and they did not respond. The sailing vessel was found the next morning on the rocks. The people on board died. We do not tow boat's at the fire dept but we will come get you or stand-by while sea tow is enroute. Should you tow anyone you are taking responsibility for there boat as well as the people on board. Make the people on board wear pfd's. There may be some good samaritan laws that could help you should someone get hurt. We do not even call sea tow for people. We take them a phone to do so them self. We call. we pay. On your routes up and down the coast be aware of your nearest coast guard stations. Not all are equipped for rescue. They will not go into inland waters in some areas. To be honest it is like pulling teeth here in charleston to get them to leave the dock.
Click to expand...

It is absurd. The Coast Guard Auxiliarists routinely practice towing evolutions but it's rare we get to apply the skills. I spent $500 on special lines just to have Fear Naut able to tow.

Authorization to tow is tricky. We're taught to ask right away if there is danger to the occupants and if all have pfd's. If all are safe and the boat is not a nav. hazard, we ask a critical question...."Have you contacted the Coast Guard?" If the answer is yes, we do nothing unless Sector instructs us. Reason....Sector will contact SeaTow or Vessel Assist. We standby until they arrive.

Seems so strange to do all this training when we're most capable of rendering assistance ourselves, for free.

If I were rec. boating, I wouldn't hesitate to tow somebody to the nearest dock. When I'm on patrol, I'm prohibited.

-Greg
 
The Morning Dew incident was brought up. The National Transportation Safety Board inquiry and report is available on line and is an interesting read. There was criticism of the Coast Guard Watch Stander--both on the handling of the 0217 May day (which was recorded, but not played back to determine the nature of the distress by the watch stander who was some distance from the radio when the distress call came in) Slightly over 4 hours later the boatswain of an Auto Carrier was securing a pilot ladder and heard a call for distress from the water. This was relayed to the CG and because there was a pilot boat in the area which didn't find anything (but didn't do SAR) the CG did not launch a search. Shortly before 1100 the first body was noted from the beach--and at about 1144 a chopper was finally launched.

This is not about towing or salvage, but about the loss of life, which might have been prevented. Certainly the operator of the vessel bears some responsability (according to the report)--as in many accidents. The moral is that if there is a suspician of something wrong--a possiable MayDay--then all effort needs to be taken both to save lifes and property.

I don't fear the liability of helping out another boater. I still pull the occasional sailboat off the sand bar when then wander off the ICW and I pull several kids out of our bay each year--broken down PWC, row boat, or trolling motor with run down battery. Almost everytime I am on Powell, I come upon a boat which doesn't start, or is out of fuel somewhere on the Lake. I do feel that each of us needs to know how to properly tow, even if it is just to get folks out of harm's way--and to make all efforts to be sure that people are safe. I mean this to go well beyond the wearing of PFD's--bring the people aboard my boat--take the people to shore, act as a relay to commerial assistance or Coast Guard.
 
A while back, I spoke with a member of one of the fire depts. on Puget Sound and he told me that they will go out with their Fire/Rescue boat and tow vessels that are in imminent danger or that are adrift in shipping lanes and tow them to an area out of danger (or out of shipping lanes) and standby with them until a commercial tow comes to tow the disabled vessel in. Apparently, when they first obtained their Fire/Rescue boat, they towed disabled vessels in but were chastised for doing it as they were providing free tows and "cutting in" to the business of commercial tows. (Which is a logical concern for the commercial tow companies).

Perhaps, if the CGAUX is prevented from towing for any purpose other than to get a vessel out of imminent danger, it is for the same reason (as to not be "cutting in" to a commercial tows business).

Since our department's Fire/Rescue boat is located on a lake and no commercial tows are available, we are able to do tows as a service.

We do have areas in our district that are accessible to salt water, however we don't keep a vessel in that area, (we'd have to retrieve our vessel from the lake and launch it in Everett to access that area) so logically CG, a commercial tow or a good samaritan would need to assist.
 
DaveS":18vabcyp said:
A while back, I spoke with a member of one of the fire depts. on Puget Sound and he told me that they will go out with their Fire/Rescue boat and tow vessels that are in imminent danger or that are adrift in shipping lanes and tow them to an area out of danger (or out of shipping lanes) and standby with them until a commercial tow comes to tow the disabled vessel in. Apparently, when they first obtained their Fire/Rescue boat, they towed disabled vessels in but were chastised for doing it as they were providing free tows and "cutting in" to the business of commercial tows. (Which is a logical concern for the commercial tow companies).

Perhaps, if the CGAUX is prevented from towing for any purpose other than to get a vessel out of imminent danger, it is for the same reason (as to not be "cutting in" to a commercial tows business).

Since our department's Fire/Rescue boat is located on a lake and no commercial tows are available, we are able to do tows as a service.
Click to expand...

That's precisely the reason.

Another strange order has come down from some muckey-muck. We cannot operate in waters below 50 degrees without very expensive, cold water wear that the CG cannot afford to issue. Prior to this order, we could wear CG issued Mustangs or dry suits, which are completely suitable, especially on a river. This order eliminates us from escorting the two week long Christmas ship parades on the Columbia and Willamette. Also, since water temps are below 50 from now until April, we cannot patrol or practice training evolutions until May.

Dumb.

-Greg
 
Wanted:

Recent 255 Tomcat in distress to call me for help.

Preferably a boat equipped with the following gear:
Radar arch with rocket launchers
Furuno radar
Lowrance sonar
Gamin GPS
Lots of salmon fishing tackle.

Give me a call on channel 16, I'll be glad to tow you in. :wink: :lol:
 
rogerbum":2m46v40q said:
Wanted:

Recent 255 Tomcat in distress to call me for help.

Preferably a boat equipped with the following gear:
Radar arch with rocket launchers
Furuno radar
Lowrance sonar
Gamin GPS
Lots of salmon fishing tackle.

Give me a call on channel 16, I'll be glad to tow you in. :wink: :lol:
Click to expand...

Ha ha ha!

Let me add that with my Tomcat as a tow vessel I specialize in Ranger 25 assistance. Preferably one with a fridge filled with Guinness.
 
Back
Top