shopping-long post

R

rdn4sun

New member
Hi All,
I’m the new guy here and have a rather long initial post but this seems like a friendly site so I’ll post some queries and would appreciate any rejoinders anyone would like to make.

I have been considering a C-Dory 25’ for some time, have read William Least Heat Moon’s book, River Horse, and been comparing several models; C-Dory 25’, C-Ranger 25’ and a 23-28’, hard chine, vee hull “walk around” like a Boston Whaler. (I currently own a BW Ventura 18’ with a Merc Optimax 135 and love the combo.) My use for a new boat for a year or two will be on a local lake and then I plan to travel such waterways as the Tenn-Tom. What are the advantages/disadvantages of these various hull shapes and power options? Your opinions would be helpful.

#1) C-Dory 25’ was my initial intro to the tug style of boat and I am leaning towards it still. I like the idea of twin gas motors but the couple of dealers I have contacted seem reticent to install twins. Why? I have gotten such responses as, “Power to weight is not good ”, “Two right handed Hondas do not offer any advantage”, “More gas and maintenance.”
Can I get Merc Optimax motors on this boat or am I restricted to Honda?
Anyone know the real trailering weight of a 25’ ready to go?
I would like a top speed of under 30mph and low 20s or even high teens for cruising. Power to achieve this? GPH?
Floatation?

#2) C-Ranger 25’ looks like a real beauty. Will the 110hp or 125hp truly do 16-18 knots and cruse at 12-14 while using ~4GPH? The actual range with the 75gal tank?
Moon had a bunch of trouble with fouled & bent props that he was able to fix due to the ease of tilting the outboards. Is this a common thing on rivers and waterways and does an inboard complicate this?
Diesel is not available on my local lake except by expensive special delivery. I’m liable to use my boat 20-40 hours a week. Any ideas on getting fuel to the boat? I have found 28 gal portable fuel tanks that weigh 250# when full. I cannot see me levering this down a steep hill and over a dock a couple of times a week.
Trailering weight?

#3) The hard chine, vee is what I have the most experience with but the ones I see are really fishing boats that one can spend a week-end on. I want to really cruise and live aboard. However, I like the way this hull cuts through chop when I get the speed and trim just right. I wonder how #1 & #2 compare?

If you have made it this far and have some ideas; THANKS!
Whatever I buy I hope to meet some of you folks on the water someday.

LTG, Captain
SlipKid
:^)>


 
I'm very happy with my single Honda 150. I've gotten 31-32 knots but that is as measured by the GPS relative to ground. Trim tab settings and motor trim were optimized. After bottom painting (a rougher bottom) and with four people aboard, I did 30 knots without being quite flat out.

In terms of weight, I'm towing my CD-25 with a 2006 Chevy Avalanche set up for highway cruising (rather than off road - this dictates rear axle ratio). I do have four wheel drive. It seems to tow more easily without the "trailer switch" enabled.

I bought an aluminum trailer rather than galvanized and that saved 400 lbs (my trailer weight is 1200 LBS). Fuel and water add up. If both tanks are full, you are carrying 600 lbs of fuel and 160 lbs of water. I had the trailer set up with the trailer dealer knowing I had half a tank of fuel. If liquid tanks are full, then boat, motor and liquids total about 4900 lbs. I used 3600 lbs for the boat weight. The spec says the 3600 is exclusive of motors and battery so I'm assuming it includes cabinets, etc.. Cutter Marine and Dave's Trailers both figured 6000 lbs to be a good number to use for estimation. I've not stopped at truck scales to get an actual weight.

If I remember correctly there are some threads discussing both weight and the pros and cons of two engines versus on. I have a vague recollection of a fairly recent two versus one discussion.

Bill
Edgewater, MD
 
rdn4sun":3pzj0cy0 said:
#1) C-Dory 25’ was my initial intro to the tug style of boat and I am leaning towards it still. I like the idea of twin gas motors but the couple of dealers I have contacted seem reticent to install twins. Why? I have gotten such responses as, “Power to weight is not good ”, “Two right handed Hondas do not offer any advantage”, “More gas and maintenance.”
Click to expand...

That dealer sounds like one you would want to avoid. They should be talking to you about counter-rotating Hondas, and if they don't stock them, look elsewhere.

Search the archives -- there are numerous discussions with people arguing the pros and cons of twins vs. a big single + kicker. I don't think there is one definitive answer to that question. Much depends on your perception of various kinds of risk, such as mechanical failure, hitting objects in the water, etc.

You can get any engines you want on the boat but you may find that different dealers push different motors depending on what they stock. In my case, I went in looking for Hondas but the dealer would have had to special order them. They are a Yamaha dealer and made me a good offer to go with Yamaha. I have since learned that the 150 Yamaha has an exemplary reputation as a real workhorse.

Warren
 
Well, here's some free opinions...

We went with the Honda 135 single, as per the recommendation of the factory. I've been pleased with the performance. We generally cruise in the mid-teens, can easily push that into the 20s, and have hit 30 knots a couple times in flat, no wind conditions. My feeling is that the boat feels kinda "busy" at the top end, so even with more horsepower, we wouldn't be cruising there. There are plenty of opinions for single vs twin, but it doesn't sound to me like the dealer is giving you bad advice. If he's a Honda dealer, he'd make more money selling you twins and the additional cost for rigging... perhaps he does have your best interest at heart?

The different hull shapes is a regular topic of discussion around here. The C-Dory hull is the most versatile, IMHO. The tug needs plenty of horsepower to make it to the mid-teens. The deeper vee will allow you to keep more speed up through chop, but when you have to slow down the ride won't be as comfortable. It also requires more fuel burn to push that hull. The flatter C-Dory hull will pound in chop at higher speeds, so you just slow down a bit. It is capable of staying on plane at lower speeds than the vee, adding to the efficiency. Definitely more comfortable than the vee when going slow. Less draft, and the plusses that go with that (anchoring in shallows, gunkholing, and trailer launch/retrieval).

So, if your cruising style will be in the mid-teens, the CD-25 is the pick (as it was for us). Our most recent cruise netted us fuel mileage from 2.3 to 3.5 nmpg. It seemed that we were usually running at 6-7 knots or 15-18, but the average turned out to be around 10.

As far as motor choice, that's between you and your dealer. I like my Honda, but I think all the manufacturers make good motors. Dealer service could be a determining factor if I were making the choice again.

Good luck with your decisions. I've said that the "hunt" is part of the fun... but, the cruising is WAY more fun. :wink:

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
A dealer can get what ever motor you want--note that the boats from Lake Union Sea Ray are being delivered mostly with Mercs. The Honda's have been a factory type of promotion--but I got Suzuki's from the factory and my previous C Dory 22 had and Evinrude. I prefer a single motor with a kicker for trolling and get home--in some cases this can also be the dinghy motor. I prefered the Suzuki 150 (Tom Cat 255 with two) because of the relitatively large displacement (the 150 and 175 are on the same block), the ability to swing a slightly larger prop than most of the other engines, the long warantee and that a number of these engines have between 4000 and 7000 hours without failure in commercial use.

I boat many of the waters you do, and prefer outboards over the diesel inboard. If you read my review of the C Ranger 25, you will see that the boat which I sea trialed with a 125 diesel did not have sustained cruising speeds quite as high as the literature suggests. Les Lampson found that 13 knots was WOT speed--about what I found. There are several threads on the speed of the C Ranger 25--one of the best is at:
http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=4268&start=0


William Least Heat Moon was pushing the envelope in the rivers he was traveling. I regularly go over a 24" sand bar and have no problems with the outboards--something impossiable with the diesel inboard--or even the I/O's. The C Dory is a semi dory hull form. It is flat on the bottom with some mild rocker for and aft. This allows a very seaworthy boat. In rough water, one had to get the bow down (order trim tabs) to keep the boat from pounding. I have owned a number of deep v's (still own a 18 foot Century CC) and find that in rough water the C Dory is much more seaworthy--but a really deep v will run better in rough water at high speeds. When it gets really rough the C Dory will do better because it will plane at much lower speed and you can work the waves easily. It is also a more stable fishing platform.

When you get your boat--come on down to Perdido Bay and tie up at our dock--and we will also see you at the South East gathering this fall in Apalachacola. Take some time to read the archives--and there is a world of information there!
 
Don't forget to consider the TC255. I think the trailering problems are solved. Much more room with the twins on the bracket and the queen size sleeping berth. Some have posted fuel economy numbers with twins as good as my cd25 with a single zuk 150. Both should cruise well at the speeds you are looking for.
 
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