Should I get a 2 or 4 stroke kicker??

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ccflyer

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C Dory Year
2003
C Dory Model
22 Cruiser
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Retriever
I'm struggling with selecting a kicker at my local Johnson dealer -

Here are the choices -

Johnson 8 HP long shaft 4 stroke - weighs 88 pounds - manual start - don't need to mix fuel - can run a gas line to my tanks - cost about $1,700

or

Johnson 9.9 HP long shaft 2 stroke - weighs 76 pounds - manual start but a kit is available to upgrade to electric - must carry a separate tank with gas/oil mix - costs about $2,300.

Use: strictly an off season back up to get home.

I doubt I'd need the electric start for what will be a back up. The real issues for me are reliability, carrying another fuel tank and, of course, cost.

Phil
 
If you are using it for a kicker, why not buy a motor that will work well with your inflatable (if you have one)..... Originally I bought the Johnson 8hp 2 stroke thinking that it would work well for both...but I found out that it was a real pain to move from the boat to the inflatable....so I replaced it with a 4 hp. Johnson which is much lighter..... that will push my 22' cruiser slowly but with twins I should never need that.... the 8 went like heck on the inflatable...but was just to big to haul. If you don't have an inflatable...you will.. once you do some cruising and find yourself not able to dock you boat...besides inflatables are a ton of fun.
 
We have only used electric start on motors less than 25 hp in the last few years as our backs became bad. We used to start 25 and 35 hp motors by hand regularly.

I would look at the displacement and see what the difference is between the 8 and 9.9. Usually the 9.9 and 15 are the same in Johnsons. However my understanding is that many of the 4 stroke Johnsons have been Suzuki's for several years. I didn't see an 8 hp in the current lineup.
The reason you want to look at the dispacement is that often the 6 and 8 hp are the same blocks--in Tohatsu the 8 and 9.9 are the same blocks.

Either of these motors will push the boat well. I would go with the 4 stroke if all else is equal (that is the displacement is close to the 9.9).
Not having to keep fuel mixed, have a pump system to allow mixing and carry the oil.

The 4 hp will push the boat fine in calm water--if you want a little more speed then the higher hp will do better. Best to get a "Big foot" if available--that is a lower pitch larger diameter prop, instead an egg beater.
 
Just my 2 cents, but there really is no choice go with the 4 stroke. with all you said add the fact 4 strokes are cleaner and quieter. I have a 8hp yamaha 4 stroke electric start that has given me 3 years of trouble use. I have used it up to 13hours nonstop trolling and just last week changed the spark plugs for the first time
Chuck
Bootleg Hooch
 
Go with the 4 stroke -cheaper-lighter-less hassel over periods of non use. Both to heavy to transfer to a dink.

Just my 2 cents worth

Fred Messerly
 
I don't think you can buy 2 strokes under 25hp any more, at least if what this
says is to be believed.

Warren
 
Warren-

I do know that in California, at least, which piloted the clean-air/water legislation, the dealers all say they can't sell any two-strokes anymore because they won't meet CARB (California Air Resources Board) requirements.

This does not apply to the Evinrude etech 2-stroke motors which are fuel
injected and pass the CARB requirements easily.

Joe.
 
Tohatsu has 70+ hp 2-strokes also, which are direct-injected. I don't know who else is still making 2-strokes but I think the handwriting is on the wall.

Warren
 
Some inland waters are already 2-smoke restricted. The extra gas can weight makes the heavier 4 stroke a moot point in this situation.

Double check your prices. Usually the 4-stroke costs a bit more than the 2.

Quieter, cleaner, not allot of oil sheen on the water, no mosquito foggin cloud of smoke. Most 2-smokers recommend you change the gas oil mix after 30 days for less chance of gummed up carbs. Normally not a problem but, Be aware that the 4-stroke can only be laid down a certain way. Otherwise the engine oil will run out places it is not supposed too.

Four stroke is the way especially if it is cheaper. :thup

I got my wife trained to tell the difference in engines. She now points to a boat and says: Either he has a 2-smoke or his boats on fire! You can see that cloud a mile away. Unless it's an E-TEC or HPDI. The EPA is already trying to choke down the 4-strokes with cat converters but that is another topic.
 
If I were buying a kicker in that size it would have to be the Yamaha T8. This is by far one of the best kickers out there right now.

Having said that, I would never buy a 2 stroke kicker again. Even if I were to go with either the ETec or the VMax 2 stroke main I would still put a 4 stroke kicker on. They run smoother, are quiet, and don't have that awful 2 stroke exhaust smell that burns my eyes.
 
Seems like the edge goes to the four stroke.
The reason, I believe, it is less expensive is that it is 8HP vs 9.9HP and I think the dealer said it was older - which would seem to indicate Johnson may still make both 4 and 2 strokes?
The dealer says they still like the 2 strokes since they're less complicated and easier to work on. Then again, the four strokes seem to need far less work.

Thanks to all

Phil
 
Quick clarification. You cannot sell a carburated 2 stroke in California . E Tec,HPDI,TLDI, & Optimax are all Cal legal. None of those motors are in the kicker H.P. category however. I am pretty sure that all new small motors are 4 stroke . Johnson no longer is making 2 strokes of any kind. As a matter of fact the brand is "retired" for now.
Marc
 
Wefings":3f6rz2gg said:
Johnson no longer is making 2 strokes of any kind. As a matter of fact the brand is "retired" for now.
Marc
Click to expand...

That is interesting. All Johnson owners have possible collectors items.
 
I would shy away from Johnson. Parts may be an issue in a few years. I have had excellent luck with Yammaha two strokes. My duck boat has a Yammi 6hp, and my Musky boat has a Yammi 30. Each are bullet proof engines. So if you pick a two stroke.... choose something that you can maintain years to come.

Now if you plan to troll go four stroke. You will not regret the four stroke.

The Honda's 9.9s only quirk is that it likes to be level when you start it. A slight tilt makes difficult to start. I understand after talking to pals with Mercury 9.9s that they need to be level as well. Its not just the Honda brand.

One more thing is that the quality will remain long after the price has been forgotten.............. Get the good one.

Happy hunting

Chris Bulovsky
 
Hi Phil,
Here are my thoughts. I have a Honda 75 and a Honda 8 kicker. Since they both have alternators they can both charge batteries, although the 8 does so pretty slowly. In a dead battery situation, I'd much rather rope start an 8 and bank the electrons to start the 75. Since they both use the same gas they can use the same tanks. I have a 20 gallon main tank and usually take along either a 3 or 12 gallon spare tank. I can run either motor from either tank, this is important! Sometimes you need the kicker to get home from some distance away (don't ask how I know this), maybe further than you have gas in a separate 2-stroke tank. Hey, with an 8 and 20-some gallons of gas I could probably get to New Orleans from Houston. The down side of my rig is that the hose fittings for the motors are different so that only the hose for the main motor runs through my Racor, bummer! I should probably install another filter for the 8. Every time I go out I run my kicker at the dock to make sure everything is OK, and every few trips I run a few miles on the kicker to make sure it will run when I need it. We've all heard stories of folks who have a kicker, but, well you know.

BTW the 8 will comfortably push the boat at about 5 knots with the main motor down, which I use as a rudder....me bad. Anyway I think kickers should be matched to the main as far as gas is concerned, unless you are using a kicker for double duty, like on an inflatable.

Just my thoughts, your mileage may vary.

Mike
 
Johnson is still selling 2 strokes. My understanding is that there is an product called Accusump that will blend gas and 2 cycle oil.
Parts will be around for many years.

I have a great 1990 15 hp johnson that I will not sell and has been 100 percent reliable. I have weighed all of the options and this motor is a keeper. BTW it weighs in at 70#, as light as they come. It fits nicely in an an aircraft.

That said, I have owned both 2 and 4 cycle outboards. They all have pros and cons. At the present I have both a 4 hp Johnson and a 4 hp 4 cycle Yamaha for trolling at 11,000 feet the Yami does better at that altitude. The 4 hp Johnson will go.

Pick the motor that works for your needs. 4 cycle is not always the best option.
 
Mike:

If you want to run your kicker thru a filter and run off the main fuel, take a close look at your filter base. Most have another capped port for a nipple for another fuel line. You can then have the Racor do double duty for both engines. If you go this route you might have to unplug the fuel to one engine while you run the other. Not sure but it might try to back syphon. The checkvalve in the connector should prevent this when unplugged. The best way is to just try it.

WalMart carries those little inline changeable/cleanable filters that work good on kicker fuel systems. They don't stop water that I know of but they are clear and easily viewed for trash and fuel flow. I replaced the opaque plastic last chance filter on my main with one of these and they work good. Up under the cowling is the best location for these. Your kicker could benifit if it doesn't have one.

Both my engine/kicker fuel connectors are the same. A bit of work but I chose the simple method to just switch one fuel line to whatever engine needs ran. I also just have two alligator clips on the kicker charging lead. I clip to whatever battery needs charged completely independent of any battery switch setup when I change the fuel line. This also prevents only one motor charging anything at one time. Less chance of a smoke test screwing stuff up...

One more option would be to rig up a short fuel line with the correct fittings that would plug from your main line to your kicker. Or possible refit the kicker with the same connector as the main. Odd, both being Hondas that they are different?
 
I like a simple manual valve to select the kicker or main if you are using two 4 strokes.
 
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