Significant water under cockpit floor on 07 CD-25: Normal ?

B

Bill.Secure

New member
Just washing the cockpit floor while on the trailer last night caused a substantial amount of water to enter the space under the cockpit floor. Prior to the washing I made sure the floor hatches were properly fastened and they seemed tight. There was enough water to keep the bilge pump running for several minutes (although not at full stream).

I had wondered about this prior to my having been rear ended while trailering last November because even prior to that event, it was common to pump out water (using the bilge pump switch) when I got on the boat.

Bill
 
It may be perspective... we get some water in there once in a while, but I would never consider it to be "substantial". The biggest problem I have when washing the cockpit floor is to get the water to go out the scuppers... slooooooow to drain. I use less water from the hose and toss a bar towel on the cockpit floor, swishing it around with my foot to keep the floor clean. The seals on the hatch doors stay "squishey" for quite a while afterwards (technical nautical terminology), so it seems that they're working.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
When we could not keep the water out on our 04 25 ftr I took up the hatch covers and discovered cutouts that were way to big for the hatch along with a poor seal job. O yea 75% of the screws would just spin as well. This balsa had nothing applied to stop moisture when the hatches were installed and this caused a black, punky area extending 1/2 inch deep around the circumference of one of the hatches. For now I went in and oversized the screws and after drying everything out sealed the raw wood with 5200. In the future this is an item that I would like to give greater attention and fix properly. My thinking is that this area was not intended to be a holding tank and I like it as dry as possible, which is backwards from what Pat just told you but thats the beauty of this site.
Mike on Huda Thunkit.
 
We get lots of water in the bilge area. Never is totally dry. When I talked to Bret in Seattle about it he said the hatchs are not water tight. Our scuppers are very slow to drain also. It is faster since I know that the hatchs are not water tight to just lift them and hose the cockpit down and let the bilge pump take care of it. It ends up there anyway. I take my little wet/dry vac and clean out the bilge area after I'm done. When the boat is out of the water I put the bow up in the air, take out the plug and let this area drain well.
 
We used to get lots of water in our bilge area. We had the dealer replace the scuppers with larger ones which improved the cockpit draining dramatically. We also had a piece of aluminium angle attached to the underside of the hatch lids. This stiffened up the hatches and stopped a lot of the leaking.
Ron
 
This is one of the areas I question on in the new 25' compared to the original cruiseship. Not sure Tyboo and C-Pearl are the same but on my cruiseship there is no way for water to flow between the compartments. Much easier to keep things dry when it’s contained to a single locker and I don’t like the thought of small amounts of fish blood and slimed water flowing around the gas tank and batteries constantly.
I also noticed that the connecting drain holes between lockers on the new 25’ were just drilled in the locker sidewalls and not sealed leaving exposed balsa. This was a couple of years ago and not sure if C-Dory has addressed.

Downside of this configuration is:
I have to bail the water out by hand from the side lockers but then again the center locker has never had enough water in it to kick on the bilge pump so I have to manual bail it also.
If a large amount of water were to hit the back deck (as in pooped) the side lockers could fill and have no way to drain. Thinking this would be the least of my worries if I were to take on that much water.

Six of one half a dozen of the other, I just like the fact that I can get my lockers totally free of water and when I do a pre-trip inspection there is never a question about how much water was in there when I last looked.

stevej
 
I am happiest when there is significant water under my deck.
Oh wait, this thread was about 25s not 22s. Sorry.

About three years ago "My IRA" was being built (I think it was that boat). I remember looking at "during construction" photos. He went with a big fish box, smaller side boxes that might hold batteries, and an accessible gas tank. I liked all those ideas and it seems it might make the deck more leakproof. Were any of those incorporated in future boats?

Regards,

Mark
 
I get water in the bilge area also, used to get a LOT. I found, like others, that the two big hatches and two port holes in the cockpit floor had no sealant or caulking when installed; I also notified the factory back in 2003 -- they began using caulking shortly thereafter. I pulled all of them and put a good bead of Boat Life under them and the screws, much less water now. Now it comes in the hatch covers themselves, but only about 1/2-1 cup of water a trip, I just sponge it out and leave the hatches open during storage. No biggy.
 
Finally we've returned to the Bay (after the November accident) and all the repairs, to the boat, the trailer, and getting a new motor. Splashed in yesterday & had a great cruise up the South River to the Bay, then to Back Creek in Annapolis, & finally up the Severn River to it's headwaters. It's so nice at this time of year because there are few boats on the water.


In terms of the cockpit floor leak, I'm starting to suspect that part of the problem is that the latches for the cockpit floor hatch covers are set too tightly. The are quite difficult to engage (because of how tight they are set) and they may be pulling so hard at the latch point that the edges are warped up slightly.

I can check this out with a hose (once our Marina water gets turned on again). I need to loosen the adjustment somewhat anyhow because right now the latches are so tight Lynda can't open or close them and that's where we keep our fenders.


Bill
 
The primary problem is that the hatch lid is not up to the task of prioviding a water-tight (or even a water-restistant in some cases) seal; it flexes too much and this is exaberated by the location of the only hold-down being right in the middle of the hatch (relative to the side-to-side dimension) and having no drain channel around the opening (poor execution of an otherwise good idea).

I see two relativley easy fixes to the situation (and there are likely more); either install small corner hold-downs so the corners of the hatch don't do their flip-up thing or strengthen the underside of the hatch lid with a truss of some sort. The latter was successfully done by Hank Brooks on Sea Skipper; I believe he now gets little or no water under the deck.

What's the point of building a "self-bailing" deck if it allows water into the hull?

Now the other side of the coin...everybody wants it all. We want a water-tight deck with lots of openings for storage and access, we don't want to trip over hatches, and we want it to look fantastic. That's a tall order and few boats manage it unless they're significantly more expensive and great care has taken in the design of the hatches.

The easiest solution is to use commercial water-tight hatches...they don't leak. They also look like commercial hatches, are expensive, and many have a slighlty raised frame which means the cockpit deck is not absolutely flush.

The next best is tight-fitting hatches over a raised lip or gutter with high quality dogs in each corner. This takes the builder getting it right and access though the hatches is not as convenient with the corner dogs and the need to place the lid somehwere when it's loose.

My assessment after all these years is if a hatch has a flush hinge (or hinges) it's probably going to leak unless extrordinary care has been taken in its desgin and production.

In the case of the CD25 just adding a truss to the underside of the hatch would fix 90% of the problems; I can hold the current hatch lid in both hands and flex it.
 
Hey Les. Thanks! I'll take the advice on the hatches but I would also like "fixing scuppers for dummies" on the CD25. It would be nice for water to quickly evacuate the cockpit. For some reason the starboard side refuses to drain. It is not clogged with anything and has been that way since new. Of course that is also the side the boat list towards and so thats where the water gathers.
Thank you in advance O one of great CD wisdom. :D
 
After reading what Les had to say,
In the case of the CD25 just adding a truss to the underside of the hatch would fix 90% of the problems
Click to expand...

And reading what Ron on Meander had to say,
We also had a piece of aluminium angle attached to the underside of the hatch lids. This stiffened up the hatches and stopped a lot of the leaking.
Click to expand...

Ron on Meander would you please take a photo of your hatches and show us how you applied your aluminium angle?

Thanks,

-Sarge
 
Sarge,
Your wish is my command! Pictures are in my albumn and I'm trying to link one to this message. (Five trys so far and I finally got it after searching for how to do the link on a Mac. Perserverance pays off again. Maybe I should try salmon fishing again!)
CD25_Cockpit_hatch_2.thumb.jpg
 
Ron,

From your picture I can see the screws going into the bracket and then into the bottom of the hatch cover. Did you use adhesive as well? Do the screws hold adequately or do they go all the way through and into some type of fastener on the top of the hatch.

Thanks,
Bill
 
Just screwed into the lid. I didn't do it myself the dealer did.I can't tell if they also used some 5200 or not but the screws have held for over a year now and they don't seem to be loose. The hatch lid sure doesn't leak much now. When I took the pictures today it had been raining (still is!) buckets. I have about 1 inch of water standing over the port hatch because of the slope the boat is on and its not leaking through to the bilge.
You can also check out how Hank on SeaSkipper did a truss arrangement on his.
Hanks Hatch
 
Ron - thanks ever so much for all the info and pictures. Were it not for helpful folks like you on this site, I don't have a clue as to how I'd get the information I needed.

I'll do a bit of research to see if 5200 will bond to aluminum. If it does, I'll go with L shaped aluminum angle, screws and 5200 adhesive. I'll let everyone know the results.

Adding to my concern, when I went down to the marina this morning, one of the boats was on its side and half full of water. A 150hp Suzuki outboard was under water. This is a picture I don't ever want to star in. Apparantly the bilge pump had become inoperable.

Bill
 
Ron,

Yes, a big thank you to you for posting the pictures and answering questions. :thup

Has anyone tried Gorilla Glue on his/her boat? I own a teardrop trailer and the guys who build them swear by this stuff. I noticed it is listed in West Marine's catalog as gluing anything together. I ask because I was thinking of attaching the aluminum angle with Gorilla Glue.

BTW, I heard that you DO NOT want to get this stuff on your hands unless you don't want to use them for a while. :shock:

Great discussion. Thanks everyone.

-Sarge
 
The long CD25 deck hatchs (at least on my boat) were designed with the hinges located fairly close to each other and a single catch on the opposite side. This allows the ends to easily flex upwards resulting in a very poor seal. A brace or truss will improve the situation and should be designed to bow the ends of the hatch slightly downward about 1/16". The hatch will flatten out when dogged closed creating a uniform seal. A custom truss can be made as per Sea Skipper with the spacer band sawn in a slight curve, or a thin piece of packing material could be placed under the center of an angle aluminum support to accomplish the same task. Also locating the brace more towards the front or catch side will result in a more uniform pressure distribution. The brace should be glued (epoxy or equivalent - not 5200 which allows some movement) to the bottom the hatch with screws to hold in place - the hatch is cored fiberglass construction and the bottom layer is not thick enough for for long term screw only support.

Inspect the hatch gasket material - on my boat this rubber edging gasket was glued hit and miss with some kind of plastic glue which allowed water to leak between the gasket & deck where not glued. Also a small dab of silicone might be appropriate where the cut ends of the gasket come together.
 
Hank,

I looked at your photo album. That's not a CD25...it's a space shuttle made to look like a CD25! It's set up nicer than my home and I think I've seen fewer gauges in the cockpit of a 747 than at your helm. You certainly don't go half-way.

When I get my CD25 I plan on modifying the hatches, but I'll hide the photos of my half-@ssed work way back in my photo album :smilep

Thanks for sharing and showing me what is capable with a CD25.

-Sarge
 
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