Steering is very stiff left and ok to right. Autopilot stall

[serpa4]

I have a Venture 26 with Garmin autopilot and GPH 10 pump.
I was using it for the first time this weekend. My autopilot often says hydraulic pump stall. I noticed the boat is hard to steer left/port and right is much easier. It been this way in my past boat with hydraulic steering and higher horsepower boats. I think the pump is stalling due to being stiff to steer. It will often go off course then abruptly steer to get back on course. Like it sticks then get free and over corrects. I spend a lot of time wondering way off course.
I used to have a Cutwater C30 with a 10' beam. The GPH pump was sort of under sized in past conversations, but never stalled. I didn't care for it much.

I'm at work, but what should I check this week when I get home?
1) Fluid level.
2) Possible bleed it.
3) ?
4) ?
5) ?

Only my Cutwater, I contemplated upgrading the pump $$ but never got around to it.

 

[jkidd]

Disconnect the steering ram from the motor and see if the motor binds when moving it by hand. Then turn the wheel with it disconnected and see if it binds or is free. The only time my Garmin stalls is when it reaches the end of the cylinder.

 

[colbysmith]

I assume you do not have a second helm. My 25 steered much stiffer than my 22, but pretty much in both directions. My replies from Seastar pretty much fell upon, it's hydraulic steering, not power steering. BTW, I also have a cockpit helm, so two steering stations plus the autopilot pump. I replaced all my lines and put tees for the cockpit helm and autopilot pump close to them, rather than teeing at the helms. Steering seems to be a little easier, but still stiffer than the 22 was. Perhaps longer hose runs? Before changing out all the hoses, perhaps I had some kinks where the fittings were installed? I also replaced the steering line/bar between my main and kicker. I agree with Jody, first disconnect the steering ram at the outboard and see if it turns any easier. Also, in my case, having both regular seastar helms (as opposed to their pro helms), the helms bled through each other, especially if turning the cabin helm to starboard. I rectified that issue by installing shutoff valves at my cockpit helm. Colby

 

[thataway]

Excellent suggestions above. Also you don't know what fluid has been used in the past. At 5 years, the hydraulic system should be drained, and then replaced with the proper mil spec fluid. I buy mine on line. Or you may buy some at any fixed base recreational aircraft repair shops. Do not mix in transmission fluid, brake fluid etc. (in an emergency you can use Dexron II transmission fluid). Only the Mil spec equivalent of the Sea Star should be used on the refill:

H5606 Mil Spec: Texaco: HO15; Shell Aero 4; Esso Univis 4; Chevron Aviation fluid A; Mobile Aero HPA; Phillips 66 X/C 5606A There are others, but be sure they meet the Mil Spec.

Also there is a grease fitting on the support/turning tube of the outboard which is often missed, and may have to have all old grease pumped out and new grease pumped in. (I use a Lincoln pneumatic grease gun, set on lower presser, to do this. (You don't want to blow seals with higher pressures).

It is very possible that there could be an issue with seals either the ram, or the helm. There are rebuild kits for these, but be aware that they are pump and cylinder specifically dependent. I have rebuilt both using kits either from my local dealer or on line. One of the toughest jobs often is getting the helm steering wheel off its shaft. I bought a wheel puller which just fit, and made the job much easier. There is a special tool (Pin wrench) , you can make or buy with the kit for the ram seals. I have made several pin wrenches thru the years--not difficult, using flat bar and proper size machine screws threaded thru the holes in flat bar and a nut. I have had to cut out a slot for the shaft. For many it is just easier to buy the proper wrench or an adjustable Pin Wrench.

SeaStar has been purchased by Dometic. The technician has been very active on the Hull truth:

The Marine division can be reached at:

marinetech@dometic.com. or 800.730.4082 Press 3



Boatsteer in North Venice, FL is a reliable parts dealer and rebuilder, if you cannot find the item on line or at local shops.


Finally, what size Auto pilot pump do. you have? I believe that 1.2 liter pump would be the smallest for the ram (up to 14 Cu In.. (The 1 liter pump only up to 10 cu in).

Keep us all in the loop as to what you find.

 

[C-Wolfe]

I had issue with very stiff steering on my first use of the boat, it had been sitting for almost a year when I purchased it. I disconnected the ram from the engine as Colby mention and find out the problem was coming from build up on the rod on the hydraulic ram. I clean it up and it solved the issue, work fine after been store during winter month for the next two year. I haven't use it yet this year but I did notice that the steering was stiff again, I disconnected the engines from it and they moving freely, I just need to clean the rod again, haven't done it yet because it's been cold and snowing for the last few days :amgry :amgry I didn't have auto pilot when I purchase the boat, I do now but have not try using it with a stiff steering.

 

[drbridge]

Another possible solution could be to adjust the steering trim tab located on bottom side of cavitation plate just above the prop. This can make a big difference in how a boat steers. If it is adjusted to far to one side it could be overloading the pump. Make very small adjustments to this until you get it balanced as it is very sensitive

Also, There could be air in the hydraulic lines that needs to be bled out. This can also effect steering and especially an auto pilot pump and controls.

If you do need to remove the steering wheel here is a tip that an auto mechanic buddy of mine gave me years ago. "Loosen the steering wheel nut just a couple of turns. Grab the wheel firmly and while pulling on it hard, flex it back and forth from side to side until it pops loose." I haven't found a steering wheel yet that this does not work on including our C-Dory 22. Don't forget to leave the nut on the shaft until you get it to break loose or you could hurt yourself when it does.

 

[serpa4]

Thanks all. On the note about the trim tab. Mine is pointing to starboard as viewed from behind the motor.

 

[serpa4]

Thanks all. On the note about the trim tab. Mine is pointing to starboard as viewed from behind the motor.

Actually its pointed to port. This should make it steer to port right? It's not much to port, just a little. I think I'll try more.

I topped offthe helm with fluid but not much.

Greased all fittings.

I could not get the single bolt off of the steering arm. It threads in from underneath and thus no room to pulling from underneath.

I can turn the wheel out of the water on the trailer equally both directions with 2 fingers.

 

[colbysmith]

Thanks all. On the note about the trim tab. Mine is pointing to starboard as viewed from behind the motor.

Actuaits pointed to port. This should make it steer to port right?

I topped offthe helm with fluid but not much.

Greased all fittings.

I could not get the single bolt off of the steering arm. It threads in from underneath and thus no room to pulling from underneath.

I can turn the wheel out of the water on the trailer equally both directions with 2 fingers.

If your tab is facing port, then it is pushing the outboard starboard when going thru the water. You said it turns harder going left. Is this when on plane or at hull speed? If at hull speed, then it makes sense that your trim tab is not set correctly. That would also be confirmed by the steering being much easier on the trailer.

 

[ssobol]

Thanks all. On the note about the trim tab. Mine is pointing to starboard as viewed from behind the motor.

Actuaits pointed to port. This should make it steer to port right?

I topped offthe helm with fluid but not much.

Greased all fittings.

I could not get the single bolt off of the steering arm. It threads in from underneath and thus no room to pulling from underneath.

I can turn the wheel out of the water on the trailer equally both directions with 2 fingers.

If your tab is facing port, then it is pushing the outboard starboard when going thru the water. You said it turns harder going left. Is this when on plane or at hull speed? If at hull speed, then it makes sense that your trim tab is not set correctly. That would also be confirmed by the steering being much easier on the trailer.

At hull speed the tab will have little effect (at least on my Honda 90). It will be much more noticeable at speed. The offset direction of the tab depends on the direction of rotation of the prop. The tab counters the torque effect of the prop.

 

[serpa4]

Thanks all. On the note about the trim tab. Mine is pointing to starboard as viewed from behind the motor.

Actuaits pointed to port. This should make it steer to port right?

I topped offthe helm with fluid but not much.

Greased all fittings.

I could not get the single bolt off of the steering arm. It threads in from underneath and thus no room to pulling from underneath.

I can turn the wheel out of the water on the trailer equally both directions with 2 fingers.

The tab is pointing to port. This would pull the back of the motor to port, thus steering the boat to port...correct?
It is very stiff to steer to port, and easier to steer to the starboard at curise 20-25mph. At hull speed, its easy to steer either direction.
I every outbord I've had steers easy till you go fasters then it becomes harder to steer.

 

[colbysmith]

Thanks all. On the note about the trim tab. Mine is pointing to starboard as viewed from behind the motor.

Actuaits pointed to port. This should make it steer to port right?

I topped offthe helm with fluid but not much.

Greased all fittings.

I could not get the single bolt off of the steering arm. It threads in from underneath and thus no room to pulling from underneath.

I can turn the wheel out of the water on the trailer equally both directions with 2 fingers.

The tab is pointing to port. This would pull the back of the motor to port, thus steering the boat to port...correct?
It is very stiff to steer to port, and easier to steer to the starboard at curise 20-25mph. At hull speed, its easy to steer either direction.
I every outbord I've had steers easy till you go fasters then it becomes harder to steer.

First, quickly, I need to correct a typo in my last response. I meant to say if the engine is harder to steer on plane (vs. Hull speed), then it's an improper tab setting. If your outboard trim tab is set to the port, then follow the water flow over it, it will be pushing your outboard to steer starboard. Thus why at faster speeds, the motor becomes much harder to steer to port. Everything you are saying above leads me to believe that your trim tab is incorrectly set. It shouldn't be more than a few degrees off center. Colby

 

[serpa4]

I think one of us has the direction wrong.
I belive if the tab is pointing to port, it will pull the back of the motor to port which is turning to port also.
If it is hard to steer to port, then it needs to point more to port.
It is already pointing to port...a little.
I have one unknown. I took a picture infront of my house before I pull the tab to install a permatrim. Then the permatrim didn't fit, so I put the tab back. Then this week, I took another picure of the tab in the storage lot. I cannot assess from the pictures if I put it back in the same spot. I've only boated twice and the 1st time was before I moved the trim tab and didn't boat at anything above about 10mph. I only went like 20+ the second time after I pulled the tab and then reinstalled it after the permatri would not fit. Maybe I didn't put it back the same? What do you think?
http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?...ame=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php
http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?...ame=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

 

[serpa4]

http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?...me=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php

 

[colbysmith]

Ok, thanks for the photo. It looks like your trim tab is set to starboard. Think we didn’t understand each other when you said it was pointed to port. In this setup then it should be helping to push the back of the engine to port to turn the boat to port. Not sure then why it’s harder to turn to port unless something else going on.

 

[C-Wolfe]

correct me if I'm wrong but, will the first sign of an incorrectly set trim tab will be the boat pulling to one side if you let go of the helm? Serpa4, have you try that, just to confirm if it is a stiff steering or drag from engine pulling to one side. Aldo looking at your pictures, it look like your trim tab are quite far to starboard.

 

[ssobol]

correct me if I'm wrong but, will the first sign of an incorrectly set trim tab will be the boat pulling to one side if you let go of the helm? Serpa4, have you try that, just to confirm if it is a stiff steering or drag from engine pulling to one side. Aldo looking at your pictures, it look like your trim tab are quite far to starboard.

You may not have the boat pulling to one side. Only happens if the force of the tab can back drive the helm to turn the motor. My Honda motor has an index mark that is the factory setting. If you don't know where the tab should be for set up, start there.

FWIW, my boat's steering force is not balanced when at high speed. It is easier to turn one way than the other. I could play with the trim tab to improve it, but I really don't think much about it.

 

[serpa4]

correct me if I'm wrong but, will the first sign of an incorrectly set trim tab will be the boat pulling to one side if you let go of the helm? Serpa4, have you try that, just to confirm if it is a stiff steering or drag from engine pulling to one side. Aldo looking at your pictures, it look like your trim tab are quite far to starboard.

You are the 2nd person saying its pointed to starboard (right side of the boat when viewed from behind the boat looking forward.

If you stand over the motor looking down and facing forward, if you look through the cavitation plate/ventilation plate, it is pointed to the left. If water flows over the tab, it will go left pulling the back of the motor left to port which then steers the boat left to port.
Am I missing something? Not sure I'm on the same page you all are on.

 

[Hunkydory]

Unless I’m mistaken, A right handed prop causes the stern to move starboard & bow to port. The tab does just the opposite counter balancing the prop effect by trying to move the stern to port & the bow to starboard. From my looking at your photos, I view it from the stern looking forward, as the front of the tab pointed as you say to the left (port) & the rear is to the right or (starboard), so the water hitting the tab is being forced against the starboard side, which is moving the stern to port & making the bow to go toward starboard, which is the proper set up & how my twins are set too. I think you might just have the tabs adjusted somewhat to far in the direction they are now, causing it had to steer to port at higher speeds & the auto pilot to overwork trying to correct to much tab set turn to starboard.

 

[NORO LIM]

A possible "point" of confusion on the tab:
Some may think of the tab "pointing" as indicated by the movement of the edge of the tab furthest from the tab's pivot point, i.e., which way has the line of the tab moved off center, or which way has the aft edge of the tab moved;
Others may think of the tab "pointing" in whichever direction a line extending forward through the front edge of the tab is pointing.

Has the AFT edge of the tab been offset to port or to starboard?