Yanmar verses Cummins

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IdleUp

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C Dory Model
R-25 Tug
Vessel Name
Linda Sue
I studied both engines and I found they are somewhat comparable with regard to quality - what is the general opinion of the Yanmar 4JH3-HTE 100hp FWC Diesel Engine and the new Cummins QSD 2.0L 130 HP electronically-controlled diesel other than power. Is either any quieter than the other - and what is the average speed of the two engines.

I found a used R25 with the Yanmar 100 hp.

Thanks
 
The Yanmar engine specs along with power graphs are at: http://www.yanmarmarine.com/
The Cummins engine specs are at:
http://marine.cummins.com/mrn/public_cummins/home

The boat I sea trialed had the 125 Yanmar and I would consider as a 10 to 12 knot boat max--probably better suited for the 8 knot to 10 knot speed range. There is not a lot of difference in the performance of the 100 and the 125 Yanmar (which was discontinued because of emissions issues).

The 150 Cummins definately will cruise in the 15+ knot range. The Cummins seems quieter, and in the long run would have better resale value. I would choose the 150 over the 130, although they are basically the same block.

Both are great boats. My only criticism major criticism of the early boats was the noise level of the genset. Hopefully that has been resolved.
 
The early R 25s had the 125 Yanmar. The later ones had the 110 H.P. There was never a 100 H.P. For those that want the additional speed, the Cummins 150 is the way to go . Bob , Ill have one in the water for us to play on at the gathering .
Marc
 
Marc, Yanmar did make a 100 hp the: 4JH3_HTE [100mhp]. It was replace by the 4JH4 HTE (110 mhp). I am not sure if maybe Ranger used some of the 100 hp engines in the early boats??? I do know that many of the later boats had the 110 hp. Either way, it made little difference in the speed.
 
Thanks for the replies - I was concerned with the Cummins engines since in 08, they made their truck diesel engines meet 2010 emissions and the mileage of the Cummins went from 18-22 mpg in 07 with the 5.9 to only 12-15 mpg with the new 6.7 engines. I'm not certain if they did the same for their marine engines. I was wondering if anyone did a fuel usage comparison between the Yanmar and Cummins with similar h.p.

My next question is how quiet is the Mase 2.5 KW Generator in the R25 and is it located in the aft section. I also understand that some 25's have 12K BTU A/C unit and others have a 16K BTU A/C. It would seem the 2.5 would be working its butt off to keep just the A/C going - any info there?

Thanks in advance!
 
See my comment about the noise above about the generator--it was loud enough that I would not want it-but they may be better insullated now. The problem is the space it is in--and how easy it would be to insullate it well and maintain both access and adequate ventillation for the genset cooling. If I had the boat (and it may be restricted to this generator because of the space), I would put the generator on soft mounts, use lead impreginated vinyl foam, like the Soundown 2 lb per sq foot material on all surfaces, with a baffle and blower for the air intake and to cool the generator portion. Since the 8300 BTU is adequate for the Tom Cat, I suspect that the 12,500 BTU unit would be enough for the C Ranger.
 
thataway":322po69d said:
See my comment about the noise above about the generator--it was loud enough that I would not want it-but they may be better insullated now. The problem is the space it is in--and how easy it would be to insullate it well and maintain both access and adequate ventillation for the genset cooling. If I had the boat (and it may be restricted to this generator because of the space), I would put the generator on soft mounts, use lead impreginated vinyl foam, like the Soundown 2 lb per sq foot material on all surfaces, with a baffle and blower for the air intake and to cool the generator portion. Since the 8300 BTU is adequate for the Tom Cat, I suspect that the 12,500 BTU unit would be enough for the C Ranger.
Click to expand...

There's little doubt it's tough to mask the noise of these little gens - on my Pilot 30 it had a next-Gen generator and man it was noisey - you could hardly talk. Home Depot sells a foil backed foam board (4x8' sheets 1" thick ) and I lined the entire under-deck of the boat with it (liquid nails) In some areas- i put up to three layers and it made a world of difference even for the main engine. The first time i went out after the project it was like i was riding in a different boat.

By the way - where is the Gen mounted - aft?
 
IdleUp, if you like that Home Depot foam, you would love the lead filled stuff Bob is talking about. It's expensive, but amazingly effective. Screws and large washers are a better long-term choice than Liquid Nails, IMO.

Anyway, here is the 150 Cummins and the genset in the 2009 R-25. Performance and fuel consumption charts for both engine options can be seen on our website.

enginegenset.jpg
 
Thanks I'll have to look into the lead product - the Home Depot foam was only around $8 a sheet, so you can go wild installing it.

Thanks for the shot of the gen - if anything they have it cleverly installed so you have good access to it. A dealer told me they could add the gen for around $7,500 - I looked around and found a new gen for $4,400, so it looks like it might be the thing to do to install it myself and save 3 grand.

Thanks Again!
 
You're welcome! Comparing apples to apples, the factory genset comes with bronze thru-hull with exterior strainer, seacock, strainer, muffler and exhaust, fuel pickup and return lines and filter, and that little sound shield. All that stuff adds up quick! No doubt you can save some money doing it yourself, and you can get it done with the materials and methods you think best.
 
Where would a guy find this lead filled stuff? Sounds like the way to go.
captd
 
TomRay":2qk2rsin said:
You're welcome! Comparing apples to apples, the factory genset comes with bronze thru-hull with exterior strainer, seacock, strainer, muffler and exhaust, fuel pickup and return lines and filter, and that little sound shield. All that stuff adds up quick! No doubt you can save some money doing it yourself, and you can get it done with the materials and methods you think best.
Click to expand...

I'm finding it difficult to find the R25 with the Cummins 150 & Gen set. Know of any available?
 
The pictures I have posted are of in-stock boats at the dealership where I work. I'm not sure what the other dealers have in stock. Andrew at Ranger could probably tell you who has what, and he will also encourage you to work with your area dealership.
 
Do you have a link to the lead insulation product?

Thanks
 
Just a post from Lake Powell, where we had two Ranger 25 tugs, both with the Cummins 150, at the C-Brat gathering of 20 boats. For myself, I am totally satisfied with the performance of my Cummins 150. I have topped out at 22 mph, but generally stay more in the mid- to high-teens in mph. I have not yet filled the 75 gallon tank full and had my fuel consumption exceed 2 gallons per hour for the whole tankful, despite a blend of high speed, low speed cruising and docking manuvers. Blue Bayou
 
Wow - can I buy just about 2 square inches and stick it in my ears? :lol:
 
The really telling number on Tom's web site between the 130 and 150, is at 3000 RPM--the 150 is 15.5 knots, the 130 is 12.3. At 15.7 knots the 130 is turning 3500 and burning slightly more fuel. As you load the boat, the speed will decrease some-so the difference will be even more. In my mind I would get the 130 if I wanted to cruise in the 8 to 10 knot range, and the 150 if I wanted to kick it up to 15 to 17 knots. It will be interesting to see what "real life" fuel consumption will be. Many of the tests are optimistic because of light loads and absolutely clean hulls.

Considering the space around the genset, problably 1" thick foam would be enough. The real difference with this type of insullation is the double foam, with mylar on the surface and the vinly impregnated lead in the middle. We used to use actual lead, nailed to 3/4" plywood, and then foam/mylar inside. The combination vinly works as well and is easier to work with. We made complete 3/4" plywood boxes for both the main engine and 8 kw genset on our Cal 46. This vs an already insullated walk in engine room, with the Home depot type of insullation. The vinly foam, brought the sound down so you could use normal conversational levels in the main saloon and nav station, right next to the engine room.

West Marine also has the foam/vinly, http://www.marinefoam.com/ also has multiple sound proofing products. http://www.acousticalsource.com/boat-soundproofing.html Another set of products
 
IdleUp":1viqd279 said:
Wow - can I buy just about 2 square inches and stick it in my ears? :lol:
Click to expand...

Hah! That will keep you from hearing your engines AND your crew!

I look at it this way - you'll probably spend $5k by the time you're done installing a genset and hooking it up. If you end up spending $5,500 because of some very expensive insulation, did that really change your life? I doubt it. But for the rest of your ownership of the boat, that extra $500 really will change your life, allowing you to enjoy your boat more.

On the engine options, I agree with Bob. If I bought a Ranger 25, I would want the 130, and I would plan on it being a slow speed boat, cruising at 7-8 knots. If necessary, I could open it up almost all the way and actually get somewhere at 15 knots, but only by making more noise and burning more fuel than the 150 hp engine would use. Anyone who plans to cruise in the teens will want the 150.

Those performance numbers were provided by Ranger, and the boats are not loaded with cruising supplies for the tests. I would like to verify them, but I'm not going to take a brand new boat out and run it wide open.
 
I think everyone has answered the questions very accurately. We did install a only "one" of those Yanmar 100hp engines. And that is a local customer of ours here in Washington State. Other than that everything was the 125 and 110 hp Yanmar's. If you are looking for a used Ranger with the Cummins that is going to be tough to find. We started those Cummin's in the Early to Late 70's (Hull #'s)
 
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