C-Dory 25 Cruiser - Real World Engine Upgrade Options

Hi All, just to throw in my tuppence worth on engine manufacturers.
I work as a mechanic at a Murcury dealership, not surprisingly, I recommend Mercury, but seriously they are great engines & their warranty is fantastic & I've seen them honor it.
The old timer mechanic there, his second favorite engine is Suzuki. Third Yamaha (personally, I'd put Yams second).
We hate Honda, they're probably fine new, but when they get older they're junk.
If you're looking for Mercury sales or service on Vancouver Island, I highly recommend LA Marine, Port Alberni.
 
Hi Pond Life,

We contend that the ’best’ outboard engine seller is the reliable one closest to your home cruising area for service and support. There is no ‘new’ outboard engine technology to be explored. They are ALL excellent, or they went out of business long ago, or else ( ie Evinrude) had superior tech but still went out of business anyway (Bombardier had other priorities).

For the TC255, the Yamaha Helmsman EX F150 has integral electric steering for each engine instead of the SeaStar tie bar and seals plus many other features, including an all Yamaha autopilot option if you want it.

We love it! Any outboard engine you choose should be fantastic and serve you well for decades. Happy Choosing!

John
 
Well, to update this thread, I pulled the trigger and recently repowered with a Suzuki 150Hp. My local dealer had a new 2024 model year they were selling at $7500 below MSRP with a 6 year warranty so I went with that. They even gave me a decent trade on the Honda. I went with the SMG4 digital display.

I've not completed the 10hr break-in yet but can already tell this engine makes a massive difference. The boat is out of the hole super quick. The Honda would only push us to 20kts WOT and I am already seeing 23-24kts with more to spare. Just waiting on some NMEA-2000 cables to integrate components together. Very happy so far.
 
TenMile said:
Well, to update this thread, I pulled the trigger and recently repowered with a Suzuki 150Hp. My local dealer had a new 2024 model year they were selling at $7500 below MSRP with a 6 year warranty so I went with that. They even gave me a decent trade on the Honda. I went with the SMG4 digital display.

I've not completed the 10hr break-in yet but can already tell this engine makes a massive difference. The boat is out of the hole super quick. The Honda would only push us to 20kts WOT and I am already seeing 23-24kts with more to spare. Just waiting on some NMEA-2000 cables to integrate components together. Very happy so far.
Click to expand...
I repower our C25 with a Suzuki 150 too .
I acheived 30 kts fully loaded but it was a little squirrel y.
I don't have the SMG 4 but would really like a run down on how you set the NEMA system up and the components you used.As I want to intergrate my Garmin GPS Map 12 with the engine.
 
designbug said:
I have started to think about a re-power too. I’ve been very happy with my 2006 Honda 150 but she’s almost 20 years old and I would like a bit more power when fully loaded. I would probably stick with Honda if they come out with a 4 cylinder 175-200. A local (Mercury) shop I have used for basic maintenance suggested a Suzuki 175 or 200 would be perfect for my CD-25. I would also want new steering, gauges and an update on the batteries and electrical cables.

I generally cruise between 15-20 knots. Would there be much difference between the Suzuki 175 over the 200? Also, does a re-power generally include an update to steering, fuel connectors, batteries and cables, etc.?
Click to expand...
Hi there, my new2me 2006 w/honda 150 has 611hrs. Curious as to 21 yo motors with reasonable hours and its reliability longer term. Repower is slightly in my mind. I don't think anyone can eliminate failure, but it sure would feel better the closer we could get.
thanks
Porter
 
DKennaC25 said:
I repower our C25 with a Suzuki 150 too .
I acheived 30 kts fully loaded but it was a little squirrel y.
I don't have the SMG 4 but would really like a run down on how you set the NEMA system up and the components you used.As I want to intergrate my Garmin GPS Map 12 with the engine.
Click to expand...
The NMEA 2000 backbone just arrived today so that's a weekend installation project. I've done it before and it's very easy to setup. I purchased a "Starter Kit" which includes the power connector, and two "tees" so that I can link the Lowrance chartplotter plus the SMG 4 display. Effectively, the tops of the tees connect to the device (chartplotter, display etc...) and the sides of the tees connect together. At either end of the chain of tees you install a resistor that's included in the kit. With that both the chartplotter and SMG 4 get GPS and engine data which allows the SMG 4 (and the chartplotter) to calculate MPG so you can optimize fuel efficiency.


Put a few more hours on the engine so ran it up to WOT for a moment and saw 28kts at 6000 RPMs -- with the Honda, best I ever saw was 20kts.
 
Pclay said:
Hi there, my new2me 2006 w/honda 150 has 611hrs. Curious as to 21 yo motors with reasonable hours and its reliability longer term. Repower is slightly in my mind. I don't think anyone can eliminate failure, but it sure would feel better the closer we could get.
thanks
Porter
Click to expand...
I struggled with the 21 years thing. The Honda started and ran well, but we plan to visit some very remote locations on Vancouver Island and I wanted a powerplant that would be reliable for years. In my area, there are no longer any Honda outboard dealers so getting parts is difficult as is finding someone to service the engine. I still have the Honda 20Hp kicker that is 20 years old as my backup.
 
Pclay said:
Hi there, my new2me 2006 w/honda 150 has 611hrs. Curious as to 21 yo motors with reasonable hours and its reliability longer term. Repower is slightly in my mind. I don't think anyone can eliminate failure, but it sure would feel better the closer we could get.
thanks
Porter
Click to expand...
I have never worried about engines of that age with mid range hours. I have owned a number of them, including a Honda 130 and Honda 150. A well maintained engine should be reliable. We see failures on engines less than 100 hourst occasionaly. As long as you have a good kicker, with a separate gas tank and a spare battery (isolated house if fully charged will do). The Honda should be washed with fresh water, or fresh water and "Salt a Way" to avoid salt build up. I once owned a Yamaha outboard which had bad salt build up because the first owner never flushed it out.

When on a long trip, I take an extra set of new spark plugs, a water pump rebuild kit, and at least one duplicate of any. filters. I also rig a fresh water hose from the boat's water tank so I can do a very quick rinse of the engine after salt water us. I carry at least extra 6 gallon container of fresh water just because I may use that amount for the motor fush.

I also carry a spare prop, as well as 2" lower pitch for altitudes up to 4,000 feet: 4" lower pitch for 4 to 8,000 feet altitude. Always a prop wrench, extra prop nuts (including castle nut and stopper nut), cotter pin, and a tube of water proof grease for the prop shaft--also a wheel puller I can use on the prop.
 
The later model outboards are pretty dependable, and if you maintain it, can last quite some time. My good friend Bill just turned 5000 hours on his Yamaha 200 on our last trip out west. I've got 2500 hours on my Yamaha 150. As for changing brands when remotoring, that may also include new gauges and other components. I'm happy with my Yamaha, and find it a little easier to work on than the Mercury 115 I had on my 22. Both brands seem to have good coverage with dealerships.
 
Thanks, wow so many good tips here. Great ideas.
I do really need to research a kicker. I like backup/ redundancy. It would be nice to share something with a tender but not realistic considering power and weight differences.
So, I'll start making my Oh,^@#$% kit!
 
In regards to the kicker...you probably want the security of a "get home" alternative. However, if your gas is bad on a long trip, it is bad in general. Make sure that the kicker has an alternative gas source. I once had a Honda 9.9 with tilt/trim and electric starter. >100 lb on the stern and requiring a lot of counterweight on the other side to level the boat. I only used it a little for trolling. Not great in wind. Then I installed a Minn Kota 80 lb bow-mount motor. I loved it as my trolling motor (quiet, no fumes, autosteering, would go very slow if wanted). It could pull the CD22 max about 3 mph, but could do 1/2 mph as well. The main weight (a 230 AH 24 VDC battery) was stored under the galley...as low as you can get and great for balance. Being on the bow pulling instead of pushing, there really was no "bare steerage speed" as there was with the Honda 9.9, or at least it was extremely slow. Basically, I could troll very slow in wind and it would keep the boat pointed. I could even select a course, and it would follow that line exactly, increasing and reducing rpm to follow right on top of the line on my GPS. I also programed it to follow an exact course into a slip I used to have and it would even cut the motor in exactly the right spot to step off and hold the boat as I moored it. What a convenience! After I installed an inverter/charger I got a Honda 2200 watt generator and decided this could be my "get home" motor as well as my trolling motor. The 9.9 was removed and the balance of the boat improved. I've recently added a 24 VDC stern mounted electric motor to give a little more speed...about 5 mph max. It is normally stored up front, but I've taken to moving with it when I have fully-charged batteries from the solar panels. The current draw at 5 mph is much greater than in 3 mph, so range can is reduced, but essentially very great with the generator. Those few that have installed an electric motor on their CD's seem to think this is a great alternative to a gas kicker. Tom Hruby has even selected electric motors as his main power! It's your choice, of course, but I think this is a greatly superior alternative to a traditional gas kicker if you also plan to have an inverter/charger and generator. You might consider it...much more expensive, but much greater flexibility, particularly if you want an induction stovetop and air conditioning or powerful ventiliating fans. I even have a small electric heater in the Vberth and a swamp cooler. I'm super unkeen on using propane for cooking and heating after reading stories about fires. I do have a Wallas diesel stove and it is great for serious heating.
 
Pclay said:
Thanks, wow so many good tips here. Great ideas.
I do really need to research a kicker. I like backup/ redundancy. It would be nice to share something with a tender but not realistic considering power and weight differences.
So, I'll start making my Oh,^@#$% kit!
Click to expand...
I fish off the West Coast of Vancouver Island and I've both seen, and been part of some "oh sh*t" situations. Here are a few of the things I've learned... (over and above the standard safety items...)
- most common thing to leave you stranded -- dead battery -- either from accidentally running it down, or an alternator that has failed that I didn't notice. Two things I always do on a boat now. First is to install an Automatic Charge Relay -- it ensures that both the House and Start batteries combine when there is a charging source present and prevents combining a bad (failed) battery with a good one. Removes the MBSS switch and the operators forgetfulness. I install an ACR on all my boats now.
- Get home motor with both electric and pull start. As above, the ability to independently start a get-home motor in the event of a power failure is a very comforting thing to have. I've had to rely on the kicker several times to get me back to the dock. I've also towed people home who could not start their kicker (about 1/2 mile from Cape Beale which was very scary).
- A backup GPS/Navigation. I've been fishing in dense fog at Swiftsure Bank and had my primary chartplotter lose the GPS signal (and not get it back -- until hours later). The boat has a compass on the helm, which can get you to "shore" but miles off course (particularly in the fog). I now have 2 independent chartplotters on the boat, plus Navionics on my phone and an iPad (plus paper charts).
- A manual bilge pump that is easy to get to -- plus a way to block off scupper drains... About 8 years ago, I hit an underwater reef on my 33ft cruiser. It bent the driveshaft, prop and cutlass on one side but also bent and partially dislodged one of the rudders. The bilge had a 1600Gph electric pump that could not keep up. I called/alerted Coast Guard and over the next 3 hours on one engine I had to navigate, use my manual pump and eventually a wet/dry shopvac to keep the boat from sinking as I navigated to an emergency haulout (all by myself).
- Tools - multimeter, plyers, side cutters, multi-bit screwdriver, socket set, waterproof tape, 4200/5200 caulking, spare fuses, sharp knife
- VHF radio -- turned on to channel 16 that I test regularly with the coast guard (on channel 83a), plus a cell phone, plus a handheld backup radio (for when batteries die, and there is no cell signal).

There are many more things in my safety kit but those are the key ones I bring....
 
TenMile said:
The NMEA 2000 backbone just arrived today so that's a weekend installation project. I've done it before and it's very easy to setup. I purchased a "Starter Kit" which includes the power connector, and two "tees" so that I can link the Lowrance chartplotter plus the SMG 4 display. Effectively, the tops of the tees connect to the device (chartplotter, display etc...) and the sides of the tees connect together. At either end of the chain of tees you install a resistor that's included in the kit. With that both the chartplotter and SMG 4 get GPS and engine data which allows the SMG 4 (and the chartplotter) to calculate MPG so you can optimize fuel efficiency.


Put a few more hours on the engine so ran it up to WOT for a moment and saw 28kts at 6000 RPMs -- with the Honda, best I ever saw was 20kts.
Click to expand...
THANK YOU FOR THE REPLY!
I don't have the SMG4 but I think the Garmin GPS Map 12 I have will display engine data for the Suzuki 150.
I just don't know the accessories needed to hook it up.
Did you get the " starter kit " off Amazon.
If so do you have a link ?
 
About propane or butane stoves: I have used the large canisters of propane/butane mix on both of my large cruising boats--and represents 8 years of living aboard full time, cooking with propane.
1. propane bottles are in a area which vents overboard in the bottom, sealed top.
2. selenoid switch at galley which cuts propane flow off at the bottle. Turned off when not using propane.
3. explosive gas "sniffer" under stove, and in bilge or any other place propane hose is routed thru.
4. one continous hose, no couplings from regulagor or shut off valve to the stove.

I have seen boats explode, & catch on fire from propane--and from engine gasoine fuel--a boat exploded and 9 people were injured in a boat which just fueled this last weekend.
My very close friend had critical burns, and lung damage from the explosion and fire from a cartrage type of butane--and the seal let go, releasing a cloud of explosive gas--which expoded when it reached a candle flame. 3 months in burn unit, and hemodialysis-he survived.

I have seen dangerous alcohol fires with alcohol which sprayed out of the fittings on a pressure system, and alcohol spreading by floating on the surface, spreading fire to the other parts of the boat.

As for ectric trolling motors: I had a 115 lb 36 volt 100( amp. batter y system on the Caracal 18' Catamarran. It would pull the boat nicely at over 3 knots. However at that speed the range was limited, and even with a long shaft trolling motor, it could be an issue in heavy winds and chop. The caracel is an easier driven hull than most monohull C Dorys. I have used a 2.5 to 3.5 as Trolling moter, and get home motor on the Caracal, and a 9 1/2 foot long air floor inflarable dinghy. The dinghy was rated up to 9.9 hp. If I wanted more of a "get home" motor, then I would use a 5 to 7 hp outboard, with a "'big foot" (can swing a larger prop.). An 8 hp would push a 25 or 22 at hull speed.

I always carred extra fuel and battery. Be sure you can hand start any kicker motor you have.
 
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