09/01 - ?? - Grand Slam of Great Western Lakes

E

El and Bill

New member
This is an idea that has been discussed under the Lake Yellowstone discussion, and perhaps deserves a chat place of its own.

The idea is to visit four outstanding western lakes in one 'cruise.' The first lake, Yellowstone, will be the site of the Yellowstone Gathering in late August.

Then, on Sept. 1, as a mobile 'pod' of C-Dorys, we will stop off and launch for a brief visit on Jackson Lake in Grand Teton NP. This is thought of primarily as a chance to cruise beneath the towers of the Teton Mountains.

Then, the 'pod' will continue southerly to Flaming Gorge National Recreation Area. Launch at Coulter Bay and follow the footsteps of Maj. Powell down this fabulous gorge. Stay a few days (weather permitting, and how we all feel -- this trip southerly will be loose, with folks doing much as they wish and perhaps some 'hanging together' by consensus departures and arrivals).

After our time in Flaming Gorge (on the Green River) we'll trailer south to the Colorado River and splash into Lake Powell (at Glen Canyon Nat'l Rec Area). Here the mobile pod will join other C-Dorys for the Annual Fall Lake Powell Cruise, under the capable leadership of Chris on Rana Verde. Those who wish will 'hang around' this second largest man-made lake (and arguably with the most dramatic scenery) in the continental US.

Added to Calendar
Signup List created
-TyBoo
 
As always, VERY good Bill. We are having our canvas done now for our new CD22. So we should be ready to leave here as scheduled.

I will also have the SPOT tracker going so anyone that wants can track the pod in real time. They can zoom in on the Google map and wish they were with us :)

Roger
 
Bill and El,
I am hoping to motor up Interstate 80 from Sacramento, and meet you
at Flaming Gorge on September 2 or 3 (keeping in mind Bill's repeated
admonitions not to get schedule-bound). I wil also follow down to
Lake Powell, as liesure permits......
 
Spent last weekend including two nights anchored out on Jackson Lake, Grand Teton National Park. Haven't been on the lake since our RIB days. The water level is up to max and it was a wonderful weekend.

Those considering just a cruise under the Tetons might want to consider a little more time than that. I'm most certainly no expert on Flaming Gorge or lake Powell, but have been on them both with quite abit of time on the Gorge. When the water is up on Jackson Lake its my preference by far. In my evaluation you must take into consideration I prefer the snow capped peaks, willows, aspens and pines as a backdrop with many little nooks for anchoring and Jackson Lake has these in abundance. Also no restrictions on night anchorages and three Marinas for supplies or what ever. At is present level the lake is about 16 miles long and 8 miles wide at its widest spot, so with good weather it can all been seen in a day but not savored.

I don't recommend Signal Mt boat launch. Its completely open to the prevalent southwest winds. Leeks and Coulter Bay boat ramps and Marinas were busy so we did our launching and retrieval at Signal Mt and must say it will by the last time we do. Don't want to repeat the chaos we encountered during a strong thunderstorm on retrieving boat with lightening flashing, thunder roaring and wind gust and waves coming right at the stern while trying to get it on the trailer. Add to this no parking room around ramp, fairly long walk to truck and trailer and what seemed like all the boats on the lake wanting to get out of the water at the same time and place.

In recommendations for boat ramps and parking its a toss up between Leeks and Coulter Bay with Leeks having the best boat ramp, but the worst parking for trailer.

Will try to remember and bring a map and other information on Jackson Lake for those who make the Yellowstone Gathering.

Jay
 
This photo is where we anchored for 2nd night in the delta where the Snake River enters Jackson Lake. Had otters and beavers swimming around the boat with many birds flying over and around including, sand hill and huron cranes, eagles, osprey, trumpeter swans, Canadian geese, many variety of ducks, pelicans and many others that escape my memory now. Good fishing from the Mokai of native cutthroat trout.
Jackson_Lake_July_2008_016.jpg

This is a photo of an unnamed 22' c-dory cruiser float tied at Coulter Bay Marina.
Jackson_Lake_July_2008_018.jpg

The Snake River outlet from Jackson Lake is about 16 miles from where in past times we would start our one way 45 mile horse pack trips into the Bridger, Washakie, and Shoshone Wilderness Areas.

Jay
 
Hi Jay,

Great Pics!

Does the ramp at Coulter Bay have a dock? It is more trouble to launch if there is only a ramp and no dock.

Also, I saw a quick blurb on TV about a fire near Yellowstone but did not find anything on the web. Do you know of any significant fire? We have had enough of smoky skies here in California.

Thanks,
Steve
 
Steve

All three marinas have docks by the ramp. None are as close as I prefer, because we general use a line to move boat from boat ramp trailer to dock and these docks are a little to far off for convenience. There's room for two boats on either side of the boat dock ramp at Coulter Bay. They also have dock and float rental spaces with a very good marina store. The parking is crowded, but better than Leeks or Signal Mt. My choices would be Coulter first, Leeks 2nd and Signal Mt only in a emergency. The boat ramp dock at Coulter Bay is also used as transient moorage. There is good anchorages very close to Coulter Bay or Leeks Marina.

Bridge Bay Marina on Yellowstone Lake boat ramp parking and docks are excellent and have us spoiled.

There was a little haze in the air from fires and could see more smoke toward Yellowstone park, but haven't heard of anything major. Where we anchored for the night at the lake entrance is less than 6 miles from the southern border of Yellowstone park. From the photos you can see the air was fairly clear. Could be a fire started since we were there, but again no local knowledge of it.

Sure hope you can make it. Have been looking forward to meeting you.
Plan on bringing the Mokai to Yellowstone, so you can try it out if you want.

Jay
 
Thanks Jay,

I will have a kayak with me and I like to paddle. Can't see the need for another motor - HA! just kidding. I would love to sit in that thing, squirt water out the back and zoom around!

What do you use for the trout fishing? I have some typical stream trout gear but have never really done any trolling.

Sounds like no major fire. Sure glad to hear that.

Steve
 
Steve

I'm really the wrong person to ask about anything related to fishing. Get easily bored if the fishing is either to good or bad and I wouldn't even consider doing anything involving down riggers ect. Kinda like casting from the Mokai where I can get into places few others can.

On Yellowstone Lake those who know how to fish for lake trout do well. I just go for the cutthroat trout and the only lure needed for that is a gold jake with red spots. Years ago when the yellowstone lake cutthroat numbers were up we'd troll and cast from a canoe and soon get bored due to catching to many. I don't have to be concerned about that now. On Jackson Lake they have lake trout and a different species of cutthroat that is more the Wyoming native. Your typical stream gear should work fine. Like I said I'm a poor one for fishing advise maybe Yellowstone John or someone else with fishing knowledge of the area will chime in.

Jay
 
Steve - Jay has pretty well stated my experience in Yellowstone Lake fishing. Bored if either too easy or too hard. As as he said, years ago the fishing was easy. All most anything worked. Mepps, Thomas Cyclone, any hammered brass. And if they were feeding on the surface, virtually any floating fly. Some fellows from Cody use a sinking fly line with a black wooly worm - imitation of leeches which are prevalent - and in early June, they were catching them right and left. Lake trout tend to stay in deeper water, and down riggers using red and white spoons do quite well. The end of August and the beginning of Sept. triggers the lake trout spawning, and they tend to concentrate in the West Thumb area. I caught a few last fall with a down rigger at about 60 feet. Some folks troll using lead lines down about 50 feet. The cutthroat trout are found about everywhere - they spawn in the feeder streams in the spring. Everything in Yellowstone Lake is catch and release. Edna and I caught quite a few cutthroat in June near the shore line in fairly shallow water. And for all lures, the hooks must be barbless. On lures using treble hooks, only one treble hook is allowed - of course barbless. As Jay mentioned in any earlier message, fishing has improved in Yellowstone Lake. Some friends just borrowed one of my cargo canoes and will go into the arms for five days. So I'll get some feedback from them how fishing went. Bring your trout gear along. John
 
Yellowstone":k9oh8jzk said:
... Everything in Yellowstone Lake is catch and release. Edna and I caught quite a few cutthroat in June near the shore line in fairly shallow water. And for all lures, the hooks must be barbless. On lures using treble hooks, only one treble hook is allowed - of course barbless. As Jay mentioned in any earlier message, fishing has improved in Yellowstone Lake. Some friends just borrowed one of my cargo canoes and will go into the arms for five days. So I'll get some feedback from them how fishing went. Bring your trout gear along. John
Click to expand...

Let me clarify something regarding the fishing on the Yellowstone Lake. There are two fish there: the cutthroat and the lake trout. The cutthroat are catch and release ONLY, the lake trout are catch and kill. If you release a lake trout back into the lake alive, you can be fined. You can keep the lake trout; if you don't want to keep them, puncture their air bladder and put them back in the lake.

Until the mid-90s, cutthroat were the only fish in the lake. Lake trout were illegally introduced and they propose a real threat to the cutthroat. The cutthroat are a food source for 42 species in the Yellowstone ecosystem... the introduction of the lake trout threatens those species as well. So, if you want to continue to see the critters that many of us go to Yellowstone to see (bears, eagles, osprey, otters, etc, etc), catch as many lake trout as you can - there is no limit on them.

As has been mentioned, the lake trout are deeper in the water, generally from 60 - 100+ feet, so plan for that with your fishing gear.

Hope that helps.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Jim B. is absolutely correct. All lake trout caught must be killed. My brain was not in gear last night, and I miswrote the catch and release bit.
Regarding when and how the lake trout were introduced in Yellowstone Lake, there is the official version of a "bucket biologist" making the introduction sometime into the mid 90s. That conclusion is highly debatable. Many people, including myself, believe the Park Service itself by accident made the introduction. The NPS introduced lake trout to Lewis and Shoshone Lakes many years ago. These lakes are a short distance from Yellowstone Lake, but in different drainages, Yellowstone Lake to the Atlantic and Lewis and Shoshone to the Pacific. So the chance of a cross over is impossible. Some people believe that pelicans brought over a few live male and females into Yellowstone Lake, but that seem highly improbable. There was a small fish hatchery located near Lake Hotel back in the 50s. What species, I don't know. They weren't raising cutthroat trout. I remember seeing it in the summer of 1953. The decline of the cutthroat trout occurred immediately after the fires of 1988. The upper Yellowstone River ran gray the following spring, and I suspect the cutthroat spawning runs were dramatically impacted thereafter. Some lake trout as large as 20 pounds have been caught. Whether they could grow that fast (since the mid 90s) is for an ichthyologist to determine. The mystery of the introduction makes for a good whodunit. John
 
Since I got to hear about it on a daily basis, the hatchery that was near the Lake Hotel did raise cutthroat in its day. I have a theory about the introduction of the lake trout...

The first report of a lake trout was in 1994. One of Xanterra's fishing charter boats brought in a fish and called the Park Rangers to get a fish ID. A fish ID? Well, there was only one species in the lake, and that was the cutthroat. This fish was an adult lake trout. When they started checking the water deeper than the cutthroat run in, they found a rapidly growing lake trout population. Since that time, the NPS has been gill-netting on the lake, and has taken almost 300,00 lake trout out. My theory is: during the fires of 1988, there is the possibility that water was taken from nearby Lewis Lake (where there are lake trout) and dumped on fires near the Grant area. It isn't impossible to believe that these baskets could pick up juvenile lake trout (who swim closer to the surface) and dumped them when the runoff could have made it to Yellowstone Lake. Sounds more plausible to me than the pelican or "fishermen brought them here intentionally" theories. In six years, with no predator, the lake trout population would grow rapidly.

Incidently, lake trout EAT cutthroat. An adult lake trout will eat around 40 cutthroat in a season. Lake trout live longer... reproduce more. The lake trout swim too deep for other animals/birds to get at them. The introduction of the lake trout really is a concern for the Yellowstone ecosystem... if the cutthroat go away, so will the animals and birds who depend on them as a food source. Thus the reason for the NPS to alter their "let nature handle it" policy and try to eliminate the lake trout from Yellowstone Lake. Frankly, I don't see that happening. But, between the NPS gill-netting and no limits on lake trout, perhaps the cutthroat will survive.

If you will be fishing there, it is best to use a plastic coated net to keep from harming the cutthroat while handling. Put them back so they can play their part in the ecosystem - a food source for all those species. Catch all the lake trout you want. If you don't want to cook 'em yourself, you can take your catch to the Lake Yellowstone Hotel and they will prepare your fish for you... the finest dining in Yellowstone, by the way (and prices that reflect that).

While at the gathering in Yellowstone, be sure to check out the Lake Hotel. There is a no-charge (but feel free to give a gratuity) tour of the hotel. Interesting and informative. If you have a special occasion, do dine at the Hotel restaurant. For more casual (and less pricey) dining, the Lake Lodge has a great cafeteria with a beautiful view of the lake. You can sit on the rocking chairs on the large porch, visit, have an adult beverage, and take in the spectacular scenery. Spend an hour or two on an easy hike back to the Natural Bridge (not far from the marina). If you want a great view of the lake area, you can do the three hour hike up Elephant Back (not far from the Lake Hotel). And by all means, have some Moose Tracks ice cream at the General Store by the Hotel. Wish we could be there with you folks for this gathering... Yellowstone is a very special place.

Have fun!

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Jim

Concur completely with your analysis on the history and types of fish and how to fish for them even your theory on how the lake trout have been introduced from Lewis Lake to Yellowstone. Spent several weeks in Yellowstone in l988 during the fires and after finding out Yellowstone Lake now had lake trout came to the same conclusion as you on how they got there. For someone who doesn't really care to fish you sure have a good handle on the situation. Believe its due to your really thinking "Yellowstone is a very special place" and how important the cuttthroat trout is to the Yellowstone ecosystem.

You're also right on about the lake Hotel, Lodge and the hikes in the close vicinity to the Bridge Bay Marina.

We too wish you and Joan could be there for the gathering.

Jay
 
The info on Jackson Lake has sure been helpful. We'll definitely plan more time on the lake than originally intended, Jay. Knowing we can have unlimited anchorage and lots of good places to hook, with a good ramp and storage nearby makes all the difference.

The fishing info is most helpful -- both for the fishers amongst us but also for the importance to the ecosystem. Thanks, folks.

We're in Oak Harbor, swinging on the hook, after a nice dinner ashore last night with C-Cakes folks. We will probably pull from the salt water on Thursday am, scrape green off the bottom, and head to Yellowstone. Perhaps launch into the lake Friday evening, then head to Colorado to snag two grandkids and return to Yellowstone with them Sunday night. Looking forward to seeing the rest of you Yellowstone lovers -- and will sure miss Jim and Joan up there.
 
Hunkydory":rre3eoit said:
Jim

... For someone who doesn't really care to fish you sure have a good handle on the situation. Believe its due to your really thinking "Yellowstone is a very special place" and how important the cuttthroat trout is to the Yellowstone ecosystem.
...

We too wish you and Joan could be there for the gathering.

Jay
Click to expand...

Hi Jay,

Yellowstone is one of my favorite places on this planet. We have been going there since 1973; only missed a few summers during that time. Every time we go there, we discover something new. We, too, were there in '88 and subsequent years... when I first saw the extent of the fires, I was disheartened to think that the Yellowstone we knew would never be the same. No, like life, it is constantly changing... and found that the fire was necessary (the pine cones need temps above 200º to open) for the next generation of lodgepole pines. Man tried to keep the fires down over the years, but Mother Nature finds the balance.*

We would certainly like to be a part of the gathering there, but it will have to wait for another year. We're feeling like we're pretty up to date with our "frustration" and don't need another helping just yet. :wink:

Y'all have a great time there. It was a pleasure to finally get to meet you two face-to-face; we regret that there wasn't more time.

Best wishes,
Jim


* Regarding Mother Nature and balance: perhaps there were some things that were due for "urban renewal" around our home down south? It reminds us that we are only guests passing through... no matter how much we try to make our mark, in the end, Mother Nature rules. The thermal features in Yellowstone (which is a big part of what makes Yellowstone so unique) are another prime example of the beauty and power of nature.
 
Hunkydory":23cwls1a said:
Jim

... For someone who doesn't really care to fish you sure have a good handle on the situation. Believe its due to your really thinking "Yellowstone is a very special place" and how important the cuttthroat trout is to the Yellowstone ecosystem.
...

We too wish you and Joan could be there for the gathering.

Jay
Click to expand...

Hi Jay,

Yellowstone is one of my favorite places on this planet. We have been going there since 1973; only missed a few summers during that time. Every time we go there, we discover something new. We, too, were there in '88 and subsequent years... when I first saw the extent of the fires, I was disheartened to think that the Yellowstone we knew would never be the same. No, like life, it is constantly changing... and found that the fire was necessary (the pine cones need temps above 200º to open) for the next generation of lodgepole pines. Man tried to keep the fires down over the years, but Mother Nature finds the balance.*

We would certainly like to be a part of the gathering there, but it will have to wait for another year. We're feeling like we're pretty up to date with our "frustration" and don't need another helping just yet. :wink:

Y'all have a great time there. It was a pleasure to finally get to meet you two face-to-face; we regret that there wasn't more time.

Best wishes,
Jim


* Regarding Mother Nature and balance: perhaps there were some things that were due for "urban renewal" around our home down south? It reminds us that we are only guests passing through... no matter how much we try to make our mark, in the end, Mother Nature rules. The thermal features in Yellowstone (which is a big part of what makes Yellowstone so unique) are another prime example of the beauty and power of nature.
 
Jim B - sorry you and Joan can't join us at the gathering in August. Hope to see you on the water sometime. About your "big bucket" theory of how the lake trout got into Yellowstone Lake, at first I was somewhat skeptical, but it is a reasonable analysis. I always believed that the
lake trout have been in the lake longer than since 1988. But without some kind of speciman showing a longer life cycle, it is very plausible.
The NPS planted six different species of fish in past years in the big lake, including Atlantic Salmon, mountain whitefish, and rainbow trout, but they obviously didn't take hold. Just today three fellows returned my cargo canoe after 5 days in the Southeast Arm. They had fish hard during this time, and had a few strikes. At the lagoon camp, they found many, many small lake trout in the shallow water, which reinforces the possibility of the dump bag bringing them in from Lewis or perhaps Heart Lake. There are only six air miles separating Lewis from West Thumb, and with a low divide between, I wouldn't be surprised in all the smoke and confusion, the helicopter pilots were paying attention to drainages with the fires everywhere.

In 2003 I spent four days in the South Arm with a retired fishery biologist who has a very sober analysis of what is in store for the Yellowstone Lake cutthroat. He believes that every species has an end point in its life cycle, which may be triggered by a host of variables. His informed opinion is that the east slope cutthroat evolved under special conditions that had to be met to remain viable. Suddenly, catastrophic fires damaged sensitive spawning grounds reducing the critical mass necessary to maintain the species. Disease is now present. The black cormorant has increased significantly (a very adept predator on spawning cutthroat), man has over fished the lake for decades, and now comes the lake trout with its demonstrated capacity to raise havoc. Put together, the cutthroat may be doomed. I hope not. But the spawning counts keep dropping, and unless a reversal occurs soon, it may be too late. Understand I'm speaking with the difference between preferring and predicting. John
 
Making final prep to embark on this journey and have a question about communications. I figure everyone has marine VFH but what about other coms do people have FMRS, GMRS, Ham ?? I know Thataway is a ham and I will have ham 2 meter and of course cell. Just wondering what I need to bring to "hook up" with others?

Thanks
Roger
 
Back
Top