FGRVONROTH
New member
Not sure i understand Brent
RandR?
RandR?
110 yanmar for 25 ranger a complete horror story
- Thread starter FGRVONROTH
- Start date
In theory, yes. I believe the prospects of the defendant being successfully sued goes up dramatically with a well-executed class action suit.
>> Yes, the defendant 'loses'.
>> The plaintifs' lawyers win.
>> In fact, the defendant's lawyers 'win' as well.
>> What do the individual plaintiffs actually 'win'? Do they ever recover more than 25% of their losses? (And I'm being generous here.)
In the NW, thousands of homeowners found mushrooms growing in their LP manufactured siding. Some of them (by no means all), received about $1,500 toward the $10K-$12K required to have the siding replaced. Underlying structural damage? More tough luck.
About 8 years ago, tens of thousands of water heaters were sold with faulty dipper tubes (a $5 part). When it disintegrated (and they all disintegrated), they ruined the entire unit. Despite a 'successful' class action suit, we learned all this after the deadline and had to replace two water heaters in a duplex we own.
The plumbing supply house was 'sympathetic' as we wrote the check. Beyond the 'theory'. any examples of real benefit to the plaintiffs? Getting back to the point of this thread, are the Yanmar owners celebrating? Or did they just not get screwed quite so bad as they would have otherwise?
Maybe all plaintiffs should get compensated DOUBLE to compensate for lost time, lost opportunities, etc.
iggy
God , having hull #6, this thread could ruin my day. But, I got to say " the glass is half full" How about this problem is so rare they have not needed any gasket kits in the whole USA. DA.......The other side of the coin is, How many millions of Yanmars are out there? With thousands of hours on them with no problems. I have the 125 hr. I had a problem of over heating of the turbo. The Yanmar dealer in Florida came to the boat and fixed the problem. It turned out to be Rangers problem for drawing to much water intended for turbo cooling for cabin heat. Yanmar fixed the problem and billed Ranger. The repairman speaks very highly of their engines.
None of these comments help the guy with this problem and I can imagine how he feels. We have a Norcold 100 lbs freezer we have been trying to fix for a year. We have taken it to 3 dealers and none have figured out what is wrong with it. I have found no way to contact the Norcold factory. Warranty has run out. Norcold isolates them selves from their customers the same as Yanmar. Very irritating. No comparison to the Yanmar problem. $1500 Vs. $100,000 plus, but none the less it is a pain in the a___.
Losing one season of boating for a guy my age is a serious loss. Once the water goes under the bridge it is gone for ever. Last winter and the shake down cruise is over and gone. Heres hoping this next winter is great for all us C-Ranger and C-Dory sailers. Have a good one.
captd
P.S. Class action suits are the biggest rip offs of the century. I have a friend that has been in two class actions. One was a winner and he received .50 cents. The other was about the same. License to steal.
None of these comments help the guy with this problem and I can imagine how he feels. We have a Norcold 100 lbs freezer we have been trying to fix for a year. We have taken it to 3 dealers and none have figured out what is wrong with it. I have found no way to contact the Norcold factory. Warranty has run out. Norcold isolates them selves from their customers the same as Yanmar. Very irritating. No comparison to the Yanmar problem. $1500 Vs. $100,000 plus, but none the less it is a pain in the a___.
Losing one season of boating for a guy my age is a serious loss. Once the water goes under the bridge it is gone for ever. Last winter and the shake down cruise is over and gone. Heres hoping this next winter is great for all us C-Ranger and C-Dory sailers. Have a good one.
captd
P.S. Class action suits are the biggest rip offs of the century. I have a friend that has been in two class actions. One was a winner and he received .50 cents. The other was about the same. License to steal.
patrick and linda
New member
BOATERS WANTED:
MUST HAVE THE FOLLOWING QUALIFICATION:
1. THICK SKULL
2. TONS OF MONEY
3. STRONG ENDURANCE TO PAIN
4. EXCESS OF FREE TIME FOR RECEIVING BEATINGS
5. IMPERVIOUS TO WIND AND CURRENT
6. INABILITY TO UNDERSTAND THAT PURCHASING A PRODUCT
DESIGNED FOR WATER USE WILL ACTUALLY DEGRADE IF PLACED
IN WATER
7. MUST ENJOY TREATING FRIEND TO FUN AT YOUR EXPENSE
8. MUST BE BAD AT MATH
9. WILLINGNESS TO WORK WHEN OTHERS PLAY
AND
10. MUST BE WILLING TO GO DOWN WITH THE SHIP
THE ABOVE LIST IS NOT ALL INCLUSIVE!
PAT
MUST HAVE THE FOLLOWING QUALIFICATION:
1. THICK SKULL
2. TONS OF MONEY
3. STRONG ENDURANCE TO PAIN
4. EXCESS OF FREE TIME FOR RECEIVING BEATINGS
5. IMPERVIOUS TO WIND AND CURRENT
6. INABILITY TO UNDERSTAND THAT PURCHASING A PRODUCT
DESIGNED FOR WATER USE WILL ACTUALLY DEGRADE IF PLACED
IN WATER
7. MUST ENJOY TREATING FRIEND TO FUN AT YOUR EXPENSE
8. MUST BE BAD AT MATH
9. WILLINGNESS TO WORK WHEN OTHERS PLAY
AND
10. MUST BE WILLING TO GO DOWN WITH THE SHIP
THE ABOVE LIST IS NOT ALL INCLUSIVE!
PAT
In all fairness, it seems to me this IS primarily a dealer and a Ranger problem. They should deal with the Yanmar issues. They have each received payment for goods delivered, inluding the Yanmar THEY sold and they should pony up. If there is any possibility of them getting a hold of a new engine, they should do so, even if it means purchasing one outright, pulling one off the shelf, extracting one from another vessel being built or one waiting to be sold. Also seems to me that the potential damage to sales and reputation from this would warrant fast action. It drives me nuts when companies try to dodge behind the equipment manufactures warranty etc rather than just getting the machinery up and running again. I used to do warranty administration work for a John Deere dealer and we would often scavenge parts from a brand new unsold machine or one of our own rentals rather than have a customer with down time. Its not about whether or not there is a gasket between here and Tokyo, its about whether there is an engine.
Doc makes a great point. You didn't write a check to Yanmar, you wrote a check to Ranger. You (probably) did not choose to power the boat with a Yanmar -- Ranger made this decision as part of their design process. (This is obviously a different story with outboards, where the owner has a major influence re choice of power.)
Ranger is going to have more influence with Yanmar that you ever will, because they both know that (i) Ranger is in the market for more engines, and (ii) Ranger can choose to buy from a Yanmar competitor, and (iii) Ranger has a huge incentive to satisfy their customers if they want to maintain their reputation. In contrast, you have NO leverage in this regard.
It is inconceivable that there is no head, no gasket set, and/or no engine within 2-3 day shipping anywhere within the U.S. If you have a new boat, and you have acted in good faith, you should be first in line for a working engine, regardless of the hoops that Yanmar, Ranger, or the dealer have to jump through to make this happen. Why should ANY of these items be installed in new boats while you are (literally) left high and dry?
iggy
Ranger is going to have more influence with Yanmar that you ever will, because they both know that (i) Ranger is in the market for more engines, and (ii) Ranger can choose to buy from a Yanmar competitor, and (iii) Ranger has a huge incentive to satisfy their customers if they want to maintain their reputation. In contrast, you have NO leverage in this regard.
It is inconceivable that there is no head, no gasket set, and/or no engine within 2-3 day shipping anywhere within the U.S. If you have a new boat, and you have acted in good faith, you should be first in line for a working engine, regardless of the hoops that Yanmar, Ranger, or the dealer have to jump through to make this happen. Why should ANY of these items be installed in new boats while you are (literally) left high and dry?
iggy
I think it is obvious that this post has not gone unnoticed. Yanmar has always been very supportive of our customers. To have this happen is very disappointing. We have been in contact with Yanmar from the time that we were made aware of this problem. John Livingston drove down to our Yanmar distributor yesterday to put a fire under them. Needless to say our distributor is very aware of our disappointment. My understanding is that there is a plan in place. I am sure that Dick will keep us updated on the progress. We will all be watching the outcome.
Ranger Jeff Checking out from the Minneapolis airport.
Ranger Jeff Checking out from the Minneapolis airport.
I agree with Iggy. I bought a new John Deere 5420 diesel tractor 3 years ago and the engine went belly up at 30 hours!!!! With a loud screech, scrapes and bang. John Deere took oil tests and examined the pistons and replaced the engine with a new one with no hassle from me.
My impression was that, if you had any contact with the piston and the valve, the whole thing is toast. If not toast now, then toast down the road.
There are "instant lemon" laws guaranteeing you a fully functioning boat/engine, etc..
If they just "fix" it, you may have a very expensive surprise down the road.
I would push Ranger to speak in your behalf, and if you have to, just "go ballistic on their bones". I know it's not nice, but you're already losing irreplaceable cruising time and guess what a 'repaired' engine will do to your resale down the road?
I know that Yanmar makes great engines. I've run one of them hard on a tractor for 12 years with not a single repair. This one is not a "good do".
Push for the piece of mind you ordered and paid for.... a new, fully functining, dependable engine!
John
My impression was that, if you had any contact with the piston and the valve, the whole thing is toast. If not toast now, then toast down the road.
There are "instant lemon" laws guaranteeing you a fully functioning boat/engine, etc..
If they just "fix" it, you may have a very expensive surprise down the road.
I would push Ranger to speak in your behalf, and if you have to, just "go ballistic on their bones". I know it's not nice, but you're already losing irreplaceable cruising time and guess what a 'repaired' engine will do to your resale down the road?
I know that Yanmar makes great engines. I've run one of them hard on a tractor for 12 years with not a single repair. This one is not a "good do".
Push for the piece of mind you ordered and paid for.... a new, fully functining, dependable engine!
John
Ranger Jeff -
I'm obviously just a blathering onlooker with too much time on my hands right now, but I will admit this is a bothersome problem. Such problems are often more frustrating when they come from a company that is perceived to be highly regarded. Similar issues arose with Goldwing motorcycles a few years ago, and the problems themselves were disconcerting, but the apparent arrogance and foot-dragging by Honda was even more so, especially when the typical owner felt like they paid top dollar for a top of the line machine.
It is very gratifying to find your response included in this thread, although not at all surprising given your concern and hands-on problem solving in recent years. Still, it's a bit puzzling that you and JL are forced to light fires to get what should be a straightforward problem taken care of. What are they thinking?
Good luck to all -- it sounds highly probable that this will be resolved in the near future. Although the lost cruising time is water under the bridge, as they say.
iggy
I'm obviously just a blathering onlooker with too much time on my hands right now, but I will admit this is a bothersome problem. Such problems are often more frustrating when they come from a company that is perceived to be highly regarded. Similar issues arose with Goldwing motorcycles a few years ago, and the problems themselves were disconcerting, but the apparent arrogance and foot-dragging by Honda was even more so, especially when the typical owner felt like they paid top dollar for a top of the line machine.
It is very gratifying to find your response included in this thread, although not at all surprising given your concern and hands-on problem solving in recent years. Still, it's a bit puzzling that you and JL are forced to light fires to get what should be a straightforward problem taken care of. What are they thinking?
Good luck to all -- it sounds highly probable that this will be resolved in the near future. Although the lost cruising time is water under the bridge, as they say.
iggy
As a client with money on the table, I am watching closely how this situation develops. As indicated earlier, Ranger has the leverage with Yanmar. The next couple days should tell us what we need to know.
I need to add that my experiences with Ranger so far have been very positive and I'm confident they are doing everything they can to resolve this issue.
Tim
I need to add that my experiences with Ranger so far have been very positive and I'm confident they are doing everything they can to resolve this issue.
Tim
Seeing as me and my Brothers... (and I mean real bloodline brothers) being originally from the hills of WV have a pretty effective way of handling situations like this :amgry . Unfortunately... I cannot put it in print no matter how effective our collective solutions have been in the past :wink: .
What it boils down to is there are companies that are responsible for your problem; and within those companies there are people responsibe for executing actions that benefit their respective company products, image, and ensure the generation of future revenue
.
My suggestion is to locate, pin down, and hogtie the dude :cry that has the authority to get you a new engine. If Ranger chose the Yanmar and the dealer was the recipient of a boat with the ill fated engine that they sold to you... You and the dealer representative must find the responsible party at Ranger and do what you have to do to make him make it right. You might have gotten the 'weenie engine' from the dealer, however, Ranger is the one who engineered and specked it for production.
I would suggest a :amgry documented face to face with that designated person from Ranger. The costs for this face to face meeting for resolution now... will save you many times over in the future of you and your Ranger.
Just food for thought... if I were in your shoes... I know for sure I'd be looking for someone's head :crook .
What it boils down to is there are companies that are responsible for your problem; and within those companies there are people responsibe for executing actions that benefit their respective company products, image, and ensure the generation of future revenue
. My suggestion is to locate, pin down, and hogtie the dude :cry that has the authority to get you a new engine. If Ranger chose the Yanmar and the dealer was the recipient of a boat with the ill fated engine that they sold to you... You and the dealer representative must find the responsible party at Ranger and do what you have to do to make him make it right. You might have gotten the 'weenie engine' from the dealer, however, Ranger is the one who engineered and specked it for production.
I would suggest a :amgry documented face to face with that designated person from Ranger. The costs for this face to face meeting for resolution now... will save you many times over in the future of you and your Ranger.
Just food for thought... if I were in your shoes... I know for sure I'd be looking for someone's head :crook .
I would think that the good will of having replaced the engine, with a new engine immediately when the problem was known would have been much better "advertising" for Ranger than the adverse publicity that has ensued.
Yes, Ranger is helping out--but the owner has lost the use of this boat during the prime of the season do to no fault of his own, and due to some manufactuering defect.
A new engine, could have been shipped to the dealer in a day or two--there are stocking dealers on the East Coast--and installed with the boat back on the water in a week give or take. Pulling and engine and dropping in another is much faster and easier than tearing down the enigne. Uncouple the tranny out put flange, loosen top and lock bolts on engine bounts, disconnect the hoses (including exhaust) and wiring, lift it out and then set the new one back in. (This assumes that the engine is easily removed--and I don't remember if this is the case. ) Which brings up the issue of engines, access and ease of removal. In one case when I removed an engine and swapped it out the total time, was 6 hours.--but there was excellent access and two of us could work on the engine at once.
Yes, Ranger is helping out--but the owner has lost the use of this boat during the prime of the season do to no fault of his own, and due to some manufactuering defect.
A new engine, could have been shipped to the dealer in a day or two--there are stocking dealers on the East Coast--and installed with the boat back on the water in a week give or take. Pulling and engine and dropping in another is much faster and easier than tearing down the enigne. Uncouple the tranny out put flange, loosen top and lock bolts on engine bounts, disconnect the hoses (including exhaust) and wiring, lift it out and then set the new one back in. (This assumes that the engine is easily removed--and I don't remember if this is the case. ) Which brings up the issue of engines, access and ease of removal. In one case when I removed an engine and swapped it out the total time, was 6 hours.--but there was excellent access and two of us could work on the engine at once.
What Dr. Bob said!
Although this thread has only been alive for five or six days, it has generated a fair amount of attention and heat. I must commend Dick for his admirable restraint in not even bringing this issue to the light of day until FOUR WEEKS had elapsed. This weekend will make FIVE WEEKS!
Dick is registered in VT, and I would guess there is a rather limited cruising season due to the weather. We don't know anything about work/retirement schedules, plans for southern cruising, etc., but this is marginally relevant anyway. Fact is, this new boat ($119K - $155K PLUS OPTIONS on Yachtworld.com) is out of commission for five weeks (and counting) during July and August in VT?.
At $2,000/wk to charter a comparable boat (very rough estimate), it seems like Dick is quite literally out of luck to the tune of about $10,000 (and counting) of lost opportunity.
The internet is a two-edged sword. Minor problems sometimes receive world-wide attention within hours, often muddying the waters and creating hard feelings. And to be fair, dealers, mfgs, and vendors need to be given some breathing room to address such problems and find solutions. At the same time, this level of communication makes it much more difficult for dealers, mfgs, and vendors, to point fingers at each other, create interminable delays, and leave the customer holding the bag. Go back and read Rick's original description. (Notice your blood pressure as you're reading it.) POLITE INDIVIDUALS. UNACCEPTABLE RESPONSES! APPALLING COMMUNICATIONS! CORPORATE FOOT-DRAGGING.
It's time to install a working engine in this boat and get it back on the water! (1) Find an engine. (2) Ship engine to VT. (3) Install engine. (4) Sea trial. (5) Resume life as before.
There may have been "reasons" for the delays. There may be "excuses" for the delays. But that time is over and done.
This boat needs to move away from the dock under its own power, post haste!
iggy
Although this thread has only been alive for five or six days, it has generated a fair amount of attention and heat. I must commend Dick for his admirable restraint in not even bringing this issue to the light of day until FOUR WEEKS had elapsed. This weekend will make FIVE WEEKS!
Dick is registered in VT, and I would guess there is a rather limited cruising season due to the weather. We don't know anything about work/retirement schedules, plans for southern cruising, etc., but this is marginally relevant anyway. Fact is, this new boat ($119K - $155K PLUS OPTIONS on Yachtworld.com) is out of commission for five weeks (and counting) during July and August in VT?.
At $2,000/wk to charter a comparable boat (very rough estimate), it seems like Dick is quite literally out of luck to the tune of about $10,000 (and counting) of lost opportunity.
The internet is a two-edged sword. Minor problems sometimes receive world-wide attention within hours, often muddying the waters and creating hard feelings. And to be fair, dealers, mfgs, and vendors need to be given some breathing room to address such problems and find solutions. At the same time, this level of communication makes it much more difficult for dealers, mfgs, and vendors, to point fingers at each other, create interminable delays, and leave the customer holding the bag. Go back and read Rick's original description. (Notice your blood pressure as you're reading it.) POLITE INDIVIDUALS. UNACCEPTABLE RESPONSES! APPALLING COMMUNICATIONS! CORPORATE FOOT-DRAGGING.
It's time to install a working engine in this boat and get it back on the water! (1) Find an engine. (2) Ship engine to VT. (3) Install engine. (4) Sea trial. (5) Resume life as before.
There may have been "reasons" for the delays. There may be "excuses" for the delays. But that time is over and done.
This boat needs to move away from the dock under its own power, post haste!
iggy