1st try out of Mokai with CD22

H

Hunkydory

Active member
In response to Seabran's question reguarding use of Mokai with CD22 decided to start new topic instead of being out of Topic on El and Bill's topic Solar Flares

Steve

Sure regret not taking pictures of our 1st try out on the Snake River ID. Its a very picturesque spot and was a perfect place for starting our learning curve on the Mokai's and our capabilities other than lack of large lake or ocean type waves.

You asked some very good questions will do my best to match the questions with equally good answers.

On the CD 22 we carry it on top stern forward so the rear of the Mokai is as far forward on the cabin roof as possible and up against the radar supports. This allows it to be balanced on the roof before tying down. We support it on the roof with kayak foam supports and secure these and Mokai with straps to radar support and cabin roof hand rails. On the test run we drove 430 miles with 0 problems.

We have very little white river water experience and zero with a kayak but have had a scanoe with small 3 hp motor in extreme conditions quite a few times on Yellowstone Lake which is notorious for extreme conditions and this with only one swamping. Would much prefer the Mokai. I think it would handle the 20 knot winds and 2ft waves and then some, but you would get wet in the process. With one person or two its capable of much faster water up and down than I was expecting. Need more time to determine just how much. We're planning on as much river and lake time as possible before our upcoming Alaska trip.

Its extremely comfortable with one person and very tight with two. Jo-Lee and I have a high tolerance for extreme conditions so our judgement in this area most likely would not match others. We have happily gone well over a 100 miles and 16+ hours in a day several days in a row on a small RIB with only stopping to build fires for warm up and coffee brewing. This with putting on frozen stiff clothing to start the day. We spent a couple enjoyable hours in it together in March and plan on some lengthily trips this summer. With two people its bow heavy and with any wind and waves you are going to get wet quick. I'm 6' 185 lbs and Jo-Lee about 5' 4" and maybe 140 lbs. [I'm in trouble if She reads this] Not much bigger than this is going to work at all with two.

Jo-Lee has a very bad shoulder so can give me very little help in getting the Mokai on and off the boat so I did it all by myself just to see if I could. I'm in fairly good shape for being 59 years young and again found this process much easier than expected. We have twins on the CD22 and I don't think I could do it with a single motor by myself. I cover the twins with a small plastic tarp then use them to slide the Mokai directly from the rear up onto the roof. The twins work as a guide. On land or water this worked well for me. Of course launching is much easier than remounting. It tows so well behind the boat that the plan is to only put it on the boat for trips to and from water. I'm putting roof racks on the pick up camper shell to carry it for local trips and if it works well for the longer ones also.

Next weekend plan on trip to Jackson Lake, Wy in Teton National Park if the ice is off the lake. Normally it wouldn't be, but this year spring is about a month ahead of normal, so hopefully we will have some pictures to make more sense of my ramblings.

Overall the Mokai is absolutely amazing and is the equivalent on water to our 4 wheel ATV on land. Its opening a whole new world of exploration in conjunction with the CD22 that I am in awe of.

Jay
 
Hi Jay,

Thanks for the great info. The Mokia sure looks like a fun alternative to a dingy. The main problem is getting it on top or towing. I think I would have to find my own way of getting it on top by myself as you did.

I would still have some concern about having that much weight on top if we got caught in really nasty conditions. That would be the same problem for towing. Towing would great if you could get part of it out of the water and attached to the boat. Maybe a mount on the swim step. But you might have to cut it loose and leave it if you got caught in big following seas.

Steve
 
Hi Jay

Glad to hear that you like the Mokai :D

Good information about towing the Mokai behind the c-dory :thup

Any clue on how far behind ? :?

Oh man, all the fish have to hide now :lol: :lol:

Regards from snowy Kalkaska

Chris
 
Chris

Tried both 30 and 45 feet. Preferred 30 feet, that put the Mokai just behind the rising water astern of the boat. Had the Mokai factory attach harken fairleads to both sides of the Mokai's bow so we could use a small bridal for more stable towing just like towing a RIB dingy. This bridal which can be purchased from West Marine has a built in float and this with floatable polyurethane tow rope keeps the tow system out of the props. For test we tried reversing several times just as if we were in bad tidal channel and had to reverse for rocks or what ever else. We attached the tow rope to boat in back of the cabin between the over head grab rails. This kept upward pressure on the bow of the Mokai and rope from rubbing on engines when making slow speed turns. With your camper back you may want to run a double bridal with one attached to your rear cleats. Just a suggestion know you will find a way that works. We tested towing doing high speed as fast as possible turns from complete circles to s turns and everything in between this was with a approximately 20 knot wind and 1 to 2 foot chop. The Mokai was completely stable and on the shorter 30 foot rope it would ride the inside of the wake therefore tracking great. During towing we left the motor and fuel tank in and passenger and motor area covered. I think the extra weight is easily offset by the more stable lower center of gravity.

For accessing the Mokai in and out of CD22 along side the cockpit used a 12" round fender that neatly tucked into the area on the Mokai where it narrows in the rear. On front used a regular 6" fender with the air mostly deflated. This made going to and from CD to Mokai extremely stable even with both of us. Much more stable than our RIB dingy. Attached two harken fairleads to both sides of Mokai for quick easy tie up to CD22. This way Mokai can be attached to either side of CD22 for fueling and other docking. Also for under way hip attachment in heavy boat traffic areas.

Didn't mean to infer when I started this topic that I consider long cold hours in a RIB extreme conditions. This was in comparison to the luxury of the CD22 cabin with heat, roof and all the other amenities. I do know and have experienced real extreme conditions.

You are right about those fish. There is not many places they can go we can't follow. At least on the surface anyway.

Steve

Never have been in really nasty sea conditions with big following seas and would just as soon it stayed that way, but I don't think the well balanced Mokai would be much worse than a RIB dingy on top unless the conditions were so extreme there was no room for error with other factors too. I would be more leary of towing with all that water up and behind me and sure wouldn't like cutting it loose, so thats one situation we'll do our best to avoid.

Jay
 
Hi Jay

Thanks for the info :thup
That is good news :D :D :D
We will start a few days later because of the snow here in Kalkaska.
We plan to be in F. Mc Murray around the 20th...
I didn't hat time to modificate the Mokai jet, but will do that soon :wink:
I will send you the infos with pictures ...

Regards Chris
 
This topic is terrible! Every time I read it I want to buy a new toy. I try to justify it buy saying it could take the place of a nice dingy and outboard.

Do you have any idea about how much towing the Mokia affects the fuel consumption?

I have towed a 16ft plastic kayak that is about 60lbs. It also towed well but I was towing with a single line from the front. The faster I went the higher the bow of the kayak would rise. At almost WOT only about the last two feet of the kayak was touching the water and it started to wobble.
I did not check closely but it seemed to me that I used more fuel when towing it vs. having it on top.

Have you tried using the Mokia as emergency power when tied alongside? That could also be a great way to get into unknown shallow waters when exploring with the C-Dory. Raise the motor fire up the Mokia and now worry about hitting anything with the prop.

Steve
 
seabran":43fvzqv3 said:
I have towed a 16ft plastic kayak that is about 60lbs. It also towed well but I was towing with a single line from the front. The faster I went the higher the bow of the kayak would rise. At almost WOT only about the last two feet of the kayak was touching the water and it started to wobble.

Have you tried using the Mokia as emergency power when tied alongside? That could also be a great way to get into unknown shallow waters when exploring with the C-Dory. Raise the motor fire up the Mokia and now worry about hitting anything with the prop.

Steve
Click to expand...


Steve- How high or low was the bowline/tow eye on the kayaK? Boats tow better when the bow eye is low, so that the increased pull at higher speeds raises the bow rather than digs it in. The low bow eye is necessry to plane the tow vessel, when desired.

I'm not sure the geometry of the forces with the Mokai towing from the side would work very well because of the relative sizes of the two vessels. Side tows work better in proportion to the size of the tow vessel. It would be better to tow the C-Dory from in front with the Mokai.

Just my $0.02!

Joe.
 
Just another passing thought:

The Mokai offers certain advantages because of its small size, weight, draft, and mobility.

For folks with slightly different demands, a jet ski would do much the same job. It certainly isn't stowable on the roof (not of a C-D, anyway!), but it will carry 2 or even 3 folks easily, go 40-60 mph, and provide some of the same exploration options as well as serve as a dinghy and fun high speed ride vehicle. This translates into a lot more than quicker beer runs!

A good used one can be purchased for the same cost as the Mokai with its included deliver costs ($3500 + $500?).

I'm going to get one this summer to run around on from the Sea Ray at Lake Shasta.

I know some of you will choke on the mention of a jet ski (or a Sea Ray, for that matter!), but the other side of the street across from your house is not necessarily the Devil's Den!

Joe.
 
seabran":qp9h47yt said:
This topic is terrible! Every time I read it I want to buy a new toy. I try to justify it buy saying it could take the place of a nice dingy and outboard.

Do you have any idea about how much towing the Mokia affects the fuel consumption?

I have towed a 16ft plastic kayak that is about 60lbs. It also towed well but I was towing with a single line from the front. The faster I went the higher the bow of the kayak would rise. At almost WOT only about the last two feet of the kayak was touching the water and it started to wobble.
I did not check closely but it seemed to me that I used more fuel when towing it vs. having it on top

Have you tried using the Mokia as emergency power when tied alongside? That could also be a great way to get into unknown shallow waters when exploring with the C-Dory. Raise the motor fire up the Mokia and now worry about hitting anything with the prop.

Steve
Click to expand...

Steve--- Thats exactactly how we justified it. Of course if you want something bad enough you can always come up with something for justification. We already have the dingy and was looking into spending $2000 plus on a electric Torgeedo. Where we are into exploration more than anything else and the Mokai works as a dingy and emergency tow it was a no brainer for us.

I imagine towing would have to raise fuel usage compared to carring, but it was immediately apparent that the Mokai caused much less drag than our 43 lb dingy. And that was with motor and fuel tank, so was towing 150 lbs with Mokai. I know that doesn't sound right but that's the way it was. Its going to take a lot of outings to try to see such how much the actual mileage is affected due to there being just to many variables. It pulled to easy to effect it much and what ever it is its worth it to us.

As far as speed and handling effect goes--we very rarely go over 18 mph and at that speed it was totally stable. We prefer 12 to 16 mph and in the future when conditions allow are planing much more time at displacement speed with only one of the twins doing the work.

We haven't tried using the Mokai to tow from hip or front but its on the agenda. Think it will probably work either way. Normally when we are exploring very shallow water I just jump out with hip boots. I did install a harken fairlead in the rear so we could tow if desired.

It doesnt have a reverse so when in a situation where its narrow, swift and a quick reverse turn must be made you have to cut power and dig in with the paddle to make the turn. We spent several hours on the muddy spring run off Bear River yesterday practicing these kind of maneuvers.

Jay
 
Sea Wolf":3khm18vl said:
Just another passing thought:

The Mokai offers certain advantages because of its small size, weight, draft, and mobility.

For folks with slightly different demands, a jet ski would do much the same job. It certainly isn't stowable on the roof (not of a C-D, anyway!), but it will carry 2 or even 3 folks easily, go 40-60 mph, and provide some of the same exploration options as well as serve as a dinghy and fun high speed ride vehicle. This translates into a lot more than quicker beer runs!

A good used one can be purchased for the same cost as the Mokai with its included deliver costs ($3500 + $500?).

I'm going to get one this summer to run around on from the Sea Ray at Lake Shasta.

I know some of you will choke on the mention of a jet ski (or a Sea Ray, for that matter!), but the other side of the street across from your house is not necessarily the Devil's Den!

Joe.
Click to expand...

Joe---The advantages you named is right on for why the Mokai and for that matter the CD22 suits us. I'am also with you in being into what meets the needs not a specific name brand ect. What makes the CD22 and other CD boats especially great more so than even that they are great boats is this site with the information, sharing of experiences and for many the social connections.

No choking here. This site and I love it is for CD boats and related items, but there is a lot sharing of other things here too. We have only in the past few years got interested in boats and for us it was a easier less physical more enjoyable extension of the back country exploring that has always been our or at least my obsession. In my opinion there are few people who have contributed more to this site than you, so please enjoy your future jet ski and other boat and keep giving us the humor and other valuable information you're noted for. Just hope you keep that red white and blue CD22 with all the extras too.

Jay
 
Posted in album a few photos like this of our practice run on muddy spring run off on Bear River, Wy. Photos taken about a mile from home. This one in less than a foot of water.

Jay


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A couple photos of running shallow water on the Green River, Wyoming. This is just above Fontenelle Reservoir between the towns of Labarge and Kemmerer, Wyoming. Going up stream in under 6" of water.

100_0007.sized.jpg


100_0004.sized.jpg
 
I want one, damn that looks like it would be a fun fishing toy....I question your photos though, I worked in Evanston and lived in the Scoup Shovel trailer park by Green River for a spell and it seemed to me that the durn rivers where froze over 11.5 months out of the year
 
Hunkydory":1mt9d0uh said:
Going up stream in under 6" of water.
Click to expand...

That does look like fun - however I think in practice if the water was under 6 " I might just walk across it? Where's the C-Dory anchored in that shot ?

Cheers,
Tom
 
tom&shan":3qxgzopy said:
Hunkydory":3qxgzopy said:
Going up stream in under 6" of water.
Click to expand...

That does look like fun - however I think in practice if the water was under 6 " I might just walk across it? Where's the C-Dory anchored in that shot ?

Cheers,
Tom
Click to expand...

Tom---The point is not crossing but being able to go up or down a river or stream where the depth varies from 6" to many feet. The C-Dory has not been involved the last couple weekends. These are different river runs for practice before making Alaska trip where we will be using the C-Dory to reach head of inlets ect. and then use Mokai to go where very few if any have gone before. This is what makes the combination of C-Dory and Mokai so special to us. We are much more into exploring than fishing but it is and will be great to be able to access areas for fishing too that few if any body else can. A regular jet boat can probably go most any where the Mokai can and then some but the regular jet boat is going to have a tough time in some of the open water conditions trying to reach the areas we will be starting out from with the Mokai carried there or towed by the C-Dory. At other times the Mokai will just be our dingy.

Ken---Know what you mean by the local river seemingly being endlessly frozen. Fortunately this winter has been mild with a very early spring.
Evanston is where we do our shopping. We live about 70 miles north of there.

Jay
 
Joe, Joe, Joe! All the way to the dark side? Sea Ray AND PWC????:lol:


Sea Wolf":6qdrf1sx said:
J
I'm going to get one this summer to run around on from the Sea Ray at Lake Shasta.

I know some of you will choke on the mention of a jet ski (or a Sea Ray, for that matter!), but the other side of the street across from your house is not necessarily the Devil's Den!

Joe.
Click to expand...
 
The next thing you know, Joe will be sporting gold chains and a speedo :)

I had the opportunity to poke around north of Evanston while I was there...rugged, rough country. I sure like that part of the world but it's to durn wintery. I'll bet Evanston has changed a bunch since I was there during the construction boom times.

that Mokai sure looks like it would be fun, I've officially added it to my long list of stuff I want to get someday
 
I have a stupid question... I must have missed it somewhere along the discussion, but what is the powerplant on the Mokai and is it jet drive?
 
Hunkydory":2kjtnmf1 said:
Tom---The point is not crossing...
This is what makes the combination of C-Dory and Mokai so special to us. We are much more into exploring ...
Jay
Click to expand...

Jay - I was just razing ya with my earlier irrelevant comments ... I think its a great idea and look forward to reading about some of your adventures in the more remote parts of the country.

Cheers,

Tom
 
Steve: Try this link to the Mokai site.

Incidently, the Mokai name comes from a spectacular deep canyon in New Zealand.

the_canyon-5276.jpg


Sure hope Jay and Jolee are getting some factory $ponsosrship in exchange for all the publicity being generated!

Pat and B~C:

Gold chains, Speedos, Sea Rays, Jet Skis,......must been the 9-day trip to Las Vegas to see the NASCAR crowd and The Strip! Actually, come to think of it, Shasa Lake is a lot more like Lake Mead than Puget Sound, so, "When in.....do as ...." Wish I could also afford the private jet and trophy wife! But may be possible when Ken quits that silly summer job baiting people's hooks and gets down here to run our "Gentlemen's Hotel" adventure on the lake!

Joe.
 
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