2015 Repower

K

kennharriet

Member
Considering a repower for Lochsa which is a 22 Cruiser. Currently I have a 1999 carburated Honda BF75. I am happy with it except for the need to choke and scream until warmed up that I am sure is annoying in a marina. It also has approximately 1500 hrs. but runs very good. I don't have to do anything at this point as the BF75 should last several years with continued good maintenance.

I am considering a new Tohatsu TLDI 2 stroke MD90 or the 4 stroke Tohatsu 90. I understand they are the same motor as the Honda 90. I am open to all options at this point including waiting a few years to see what new technology brings to the outboard market. Thanks in advance for the collective wisdom from the group. Ken
 
I was all ready to repower.... trade in my Yamaha twin 40hp and buy some Honda 50's......Until I found out that no one wanted to take my Yamaha 40 motors in on trade and if they did they would only give me $1600 each for them... Yeow ! they only have 400 hours on them... I sure would expect more.... I could sell them on EBAY and get twice that amount but what a bother.... so I rebuilt the carburators and will keep them....

Joel
SEA3PO
 
I was at the boat show in Vancouver and dropped by the Yamaha booth. My mind drifted to wondering how Chimo would run with twin 70's instead of 60's. It's the same block. The 70 picks up 6lbs in weight but the real difference is in the gearing, 2.33 vs 1.85, and undoubtedly the fuel flow to shift the torque curve. My daydreaming ended when I thought of the dollars involved and the fact that i spend 90% of my time running at approx. 3800 rpm and almost never above 4200. Nothing to be gained.
 
That's a good point on RPM and horsepower in engines with the same block. I once had to decide between a Honda 135 and 150 and was leaning toward the 150 until I realized that extra HP only shows up at the very top of the RPM range. Since I rarely ran flat out I saved thousands by going with the 135.
 
Thought I put in my two cents worth here. I just repowered with a new 2015 Mercury 90 command thrust and couldn't be happier. I had a 1997 Honda which is a fine motor and very reliable but doesn't compare to the new Merc. The Mercury swings a big 15x17 prop with the 22 C-dory fully loaded for cruising. I have put on about 40 hrs this winter fishing and one cruise over to Chatterbox Falls. No need to use trim tabs except for trimming side to side and when I drop the motor trim down I can push the bow down nicely. With the trim tabs and motor trimmed down it will really plow , nice in big chop. The best part is fuel consumption , way less than the Honda, And a real nice "quiet" cruise at 20 kns. @ 4000 rpm. It's max speed is 31 kns @ 5800rpm which is too fast for me but nice if you need it. The best part I like is the weight loss of 30 lbs from the Honda, no belts to change, no valves to adjust and I can do my own maintenance. But I am still nervous because it is a new model. Good luck on your decision! Jim.
 
Johnson E-Techs. You won't go wrong wrong from fuel economy to reliability to torque and to weight.

Also, I do like the Tohatsu. 20 million Asian professional fisherman can't be wrong. I've had several Tohatsu engines and all have performed extremely well.

But re-powering a 22, i'd go with E-techs in a heart beat. I don't own stock i the company, but I've been running an e-tech on my fishing boat and it has been flawless. I replaced an older Johnson 25 hp 2 stroke with a new e-tech 25, and the top speed on the fishing boat went from 18 mph to 27 mph. Same prop pitch. Torque was fantastic and almost dumped me from the bench in the boat when I hit the throttle on the e-tech the first time.

Just something to think about. I also believe the hp equivalent e-techs are lighter on the transom. Something most 22's need.
 
I'm glad someone bought a merc with command thrust bigger prop I've been thinking about trading /selling my f115 yamaha and buying a new merc 115 hp with command thrust a 15 in prop and maybe be able to go to a 17 pitch instead of a 15 in pitch .
Yamaha's are in demand so maybe sell it ? Still deciding We have the CC-23 venture weighs about 3000lb VS. 2000 lb for 22CD so 115 would be good enough same lower unit as their 150 hp
 
We have an E-TEC 115 on the back of our CC23. No complaints. Perhaps the things I like the best are the lack of oil/filter changes and the extended service intervals. Even if you play it safe you still only have to go in every other year!
 
williwaw":3a47zi83 said:
We have an E-TEC 115 on the back of our CC23. No complaints. Perhaps the things I like the best are the lack of oil/filter changes and the extended service intervals. Even if you play it safe you still only have to go in every other year!
Click to expand...

That's really interesting. How many miles do you get on a gallon of oil? What does a gallon cost? Proprietary oil or Walmart?

Thanks
 
The best performance is when using the Evinrude xd100 synthetic oil as that allows a 100:1 mix (about $40 a gallon). So you'll need one gallon for every 100 gallons of fuel you burn. And just to be clear, you don't actually mix the oil yourself - you have a 2 gallon tank (ours is mounted between the fuel tanks but it believe it can be up to 20 feet away).

There's a low oil alarm that will sound at the helm and a NMEA 2k message is also sent when low. If you run out of oil there's a "get home" mode that will automatically engage and provide reduced power allowing running without oil.

Is it cheaper than changing oil/filter? I don't know but for me that's not really the issue. I like the lower hassle of just occasionally adding oil to the small tank.

You can find the Boattest.com write-up here.
 
jennykatz said:
I'm glad someone bought a merc with command thrust bigger prop I've been thinking about trading /selling my f115 yamaha and buying a new merc 115 hp with command thrust a 15 in prop and maybe be able to go to a 17 pitch instead of a 15 in pitch .


My c-dory is well over 3000 lb when loaded for an extended cruise. Fishing with four adults and gear, full of fuel ( I keep it full in winter) barely effects the performance at all. The only issue it has is running too light, then the stern gets too much lift and the prop will ventilate on a hard take off or sharp turn. With an average load its all smiles. The 115 merc in command thrust would probably be too much for a 22' c-dory, but maybe fine for the 23'.

Jim
Click to expand...
 
I was in Bellingham Honda, a couple of years ago trying to get my Honda to run. Whilst I was there, a guy picked up his E-Tech motor which was in for it's first service. I don't know how many hours that was.

What I remember was the bill came to $1000. The proud owner was flabbergasted. The guy on the other side of the counter told him how cheap he was getting off. I certainly remember that interchange, as I was as impressed as the guy getting the bill. He paid to get his motor back, same as I did.

If you're considering an E-Tech, I'd ask how much the regular services cost and how often they're needed. Fortunately for me, I can service the Honda myself, mostly by changing the oil, checking the filters and lubricating various joints.

Boris
 
The lack of oil changes seems to be a big selling point for BRP. Does an E-tec load up trolling at low RPM like all my previous 2 stroke motors would?

I just want to point out that I did my annual oil changes and filters for both our Honda 40s last weekend. It took me probably 10 minutes for both motors. The burden of an oil change seems to be a little overblown.

A well known boat builder that I respect told me they don't use E-tecs because they are much louder and vibrate more. I thought that was interesting, but have no experience running a modern E-tec.

I'm sure they are a fine motor. We all have our preferences, but its like a ford, chevy, dodge debate. Any modern outboard is going to be reliable, even a two stroke. Did I mention I love my Hondas?
 
I have my Yamaha in to the same guy since new, every 100 hours. Just did the 350 hour service in the Fall, $650 Cdn. (Oil, gear lube, plugs, impeller, fuel filters, internal zincs etc pretty thorough. He says there are a couple internal zincs that most folks don't change or know about that lead to overheat issues).
Before that was about $400-500 a year. At 100 hours a year use usually.
I don't touch my engine. Other than check fuel and oil levels prior to start up. The Yamaha guy does what it needs by the book and I'm happy to have him keep it perfect. Pampered single philosophy.
I figure a $10,000 engine needs 5% annually to keep it running perfect and most brands are likely similar. So if the Etec went 350 hours before first service the price was close to mine. These boats are low powered so if you want a surprise, chat with your neighbour with his triple 250's! That Etec in the Etec thread looks like it's moving that skiff at 50 mph. Nice motor I'm sure.
George
 
That 40 bucks per gallon seems high for oil. That would add quite a bit to our running costs using about 200 dollars per year of oil vs 65 bucks for annual maint but it would even out more for the more intensive maintenance intervals.

I have only run a etec 90 on one boat for a brief time and mostly noted the booming intake sounds and general noise difference after being used to a Honda 90.

This quote is notable but is still very subjective.

"Don't hear much about Yamaha issues. Lots of mixed opinions on etec"

There is also some language in the maint. schedule that states salt water use requires annual maintenance inspections but does not go on to explain what those are beyond anodes.

When is the G2 90 coming out?

Greg
 
The evinrude still has a water pump, zincs, lower gear oil, etc. I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable letting years go by without changing my impeller or gear oil regardless of what the service interval says. I change the impeller every year, and at $23 a piece its worth the piece of mind.
 
I really appreciate the discussion. I can get a 2015 BFT Tohatsu 90, 4 stroke for about $8,700 + tax with a 5 yr. warrantee. The TLDI Tohatsu 90 2 stroke is a few hundred less than that. As I understand it, both are identical to Honda which run about $2,000 more for the same motor.

I am not dis-satisfied with my carbureted 1999 Honda BF75 which runs great and is easy to maintain myself. I like being in the position where I don't have to do anything. I would love to have fuel injection for easy starts. I'm not excited about the expense and need to carry oil for a two stroke. The insignificant weight savings of 2 stroke vs 4 stroke does not justify carrying expensive 2 stroke oil to me. I don't mind the oil/filter maintenance of a 4 stroke. I have the ability to repower now. My question really is, is there new technology on the horizon that would make me regret a repower now?
 
We also have a Honda carbed 75 and it runs very well. We would rather have fuel injection also but with our current motor is running good so we plan to use it until a re-designed 75-90 4 stroke comes on the market from one of the major brands at a significant weight savings over the current offerings.

We ran a Yamaha F70 on our last boat and it was a great and light motor but we load our 19 up so heavy that I think that smaller block motor would have to work pretty hard with the right prop to work for us now. It was overall quiet but got noisy at the upper RPMs and I think we might have to run it fast to spin a low enough pitch prop.

We are waiting for the next evolution of 90hp outboards.

Greg
 
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