25' C-Dory vs. 25'Ranger Tug

W

Will-C

New member
I wondered about the differences in a cost comparisons that have to do with maintaining both of these 25' boats. Like fuel mileage for each, winterizing,normal operating expenses like oil changes,fuel filters. I'm not familiar with what kind of service the Yanmar diesel requires. I wondered about the shaft seals, stuffing boxes Maybe some Tugnuts that actually own a 25' can chime in. Figuring the C-Dory with a 135 hp or a 150 hp. I already own a tow vehicle than can handle either so that is not part of the issue. Just thinking about moving up to a boat with more bathroom capabilities to be able to stay on it longer more comfortably. I would guess a used 25' C-Dory would come in about forty thousand cheaper. I would think both would hold their respective resale values equally well. Maybe the Ranger Tug a little better, your thoughts?
D.D.
 
Hey Dave,

We have friends with an R-25. The most obvious difference is the R-25 is a lot more boat. Not necessarily better, depending on your use; but definitely more. The R-25 weighs about 1,000 pounds more. MUCH nicer interior finish. More storage, considering the "berth" under the dinette. No "head whacker" as you come in the cabin door (I have to duck to enter the cabin on our CD-25).

The CD is stone simple for maintenance and mods, since you can pretty much get to everything. I would think both would be similar with 100 hour oil changes, etc. You would have the additional maintenance with the sea strainer on the diesel, but that is no big deal.

I know you like your Venture 23, how 'bout putting the V-26 into the search? Very similar to the CD-25, with a more finished cabin and an enclosed head.

Our boat stays in the water when we are home. I like being able to pull the motor up out of the water to keep it out of the salt water. For us, that is a big plus for the C-Dory.

The CD-25 can be launched/retrieved in less water, so there may be a nod there, since it draws less.

Both boats have great owners groups, but the Ranger factory folks are very receptive and interact with their owners.

Our CD-25 suits our style. If something catastrophic happened to her, I would certainly give the R-25 (or 27) a very strong look. The entry cost is more, but I would assume it would return more at resale time.

If you're looking at used, there have been a variety of engines used in the R-25; the smaller hp ones don't allow cruising in the mid-teens.

We'll be spending the summer on Wild Blue... can't imagine doing that without an enclosed head/shower. It does make the boat living more comfortable for some of us.

Good luck with the search.

Best wishes,
Jim
 
Jim,
The idea of the slow cruising speed is the thing that kind of kills me. Even the newer 27's I think top out at 20 mph or so. Cruising on flat water at 12 mph would make me bored. I don't think the Ranger Tugs draw much more than two and half feet but then you can't tilt up the motor either. I don't know if the fuel mileage and the gas versus diesel finds the tugs anymore fuel efficent. Just thought I'd bounce the idea off the group. I would consider a used 26' Venture if the price was right.
D.D.
 
We looked carefully at the Ranger 25 and 27 last year. The point which would push me to a 27 is the engine access. It is much better than on the 25. The 25 is a legacy boat now--and there is a variety of engines, from a few 75 hp up to 150 hp. The 27 is going to have 180 hp and be able to cruise in the range you are interested in. But a lot of us old sailboat folks have hundreds of thousands of miles at less than 7 knots...

The weight on trailer ready to cruise is closer to 9,000 to 10,000, and a 1 ton truck would be best. The tongue weight may be high for a 3/4.

I have owned a number of diesel boats up to twin Cat 3208's. Plus several diesel RV's and trucks. The maintenance interval is about the same as the outboards, but a lot more oil. Filters etc may be a bit more, but only pennies in relation to the full cost of boat ownership. Shaft seals and stuffing boxes should not be a problem--assuming that you care for them properly.

The fuel use---it depends on speed. At trawler speeds (6 knots)--then the trawler will win. Over all cost of the Ranger will be more than the 25 or 26.

The trawler will also be more difficult to launch. You can launch a C Dory in 12 to 15" of water--The Ranger 25/27 has a draft of 26", but your really need 30" to launch that size of boat....Basically you want a steeper ramp angle.

We looked at the complexity of the systems on any of the inboard and the simplicity of the outboards. That made the decision for us. The Ranger is a beautiful and functional boat. The C Dory is more utilitarian.
 
A couple points from one that sells both . We are getting a consistent 20 Kts with the R 27s [no bottom paint] .There was one and only one R 25 Classic built with the 75 HP which is Commander Bill's boat [Alabama] He is a trawler speed guy and loves it .There was a brief fling with a 125 HP Yanmar and then due to EPA emissions standards the 110 HP was put in quite a few boats [ they were a little on the noisy and slow side]. Then Cummins came along with their QSD electronic common rail engine in 150 HP [ the best performing version of the 25 classic ] and as a 135 HP. Mid model year in 2009 they raised the price by 25% . Yanmar had the BY series [also common rail electronic based on BMW block] and thats where we are today. The current R25 SC cockpit is identical to the R 27 as is the engine installation/access. The BYs at 6 Kts burn 1 gallon an hour or less . Max fuel burn on an R 27 [180 HP]at 20 Kts is 9.5 GPH or so. The max on a 150 BY is about 8.5 at 18-19 Kts.The MPG is consistent from 10-20KTs at about 2.4 .
Bob's last point is right on the money . C Dorys are simple and Rangers are more complex but "cushier" and a little mor roomy.
Marc
 
Marc of course is correct that the current SC 25 has the same access as the 27--but it also has a smaller cabin--going along with the larger cockpit. The older 25's had more difficult front end engine access. Even the 27, I would not call especially easy access to the front end, even though it is much better than the original 25. I believe that there can be some modifications done to give better access yet. As I recollect the issue I had was with the water pump--and if that goes out, you want to replace it right now. In my cruising boats I had one rebuilt and ready to go.
 
I'd like to add a comment regarding the Ranger 25. It's certainly cushier and better appointed than the C-Dory, but it's not "roomier."

There both the same length. Actually the R-25 is 1 ft shorter according to the factory specs. they're the same width, 8 1/2'. the R-25 is taller. Given the existing volume, if you pack more amenities into the R-25, the room that people have to live in has got to be smaller in the R-25 than the C-25.

The simplicity of the C-25 does make it more liveable when you're cruising. One can swing your arms better I guess, and I can stand up in the C-25 just fine.

So, more luxurious, diesel and thriftier, taller, yes, the R-25 has it. But more room; I'd vote for the C-25. I'll go with Jim TXSD, a C-25 suits my requirements better.

Boris
 
Boris,
I don't have the exact specs, but my impression is that the cabin in the Ranger might be slightly longer than the C Dory 25, and the cockpit smaller. The head seems larger in the Ranger tug--plus it has that coffin berth under the dinette, which also has a flip flop front seat. The v berth in the Ranger seemed smaller to me.

There is also the issue of no splash well--and a solid transom in the Ranger. The splash well takes up several feet of boat length which are not usable.
 
Bob, you're certainly correct in those points. However, I still feel that the C-Dory has more free space, both for swinging arms and storage.

The coffin berth does take up space that one can use for storage, the C-Dory splash well also takes up space, but the C-Dory is longer, and if the Ranger v-berth is shorter, well, I'd like to point out that the one in the C-Dory is 2" too short for me. I sleep at an angle, on the port side. Heaven help me if there's a shorter v-berth. Actually, I think the C-22 has a longer berth.

All those issues are minor and it's the personal feeling that makes me like the C-Dory better. Just fits my feeling as to what a cruising boat should be in the 25' range. They're both great boats, I just thought I'd give another view of the difference.

While we're at it, I notice the Marinaut has a narrower hull than the C-Dory. Again it's a trade: v-shape for better "rough water" handling vs more interior room in a dory hull. Each persons preference, and obviously mine is free space. The kids can sleep in the cockpit when they go with us, we need the room when it's just us two. Actually I sleep in the cockpit, but that's going to change soon. I do understand why one would want either boat.

Now that should make me friends with both Jeff and Les.

Boris
 
After thinking about all this and everyones thoughtful posts, I would stay with the C-Dory as the simple layout lack of more complicated systems wins my vote. Plus while I don't travel that fast; I do like to cruise in the 20 to 25 mph range when conditions permit. We seem to do pretty well living aboard our 23' Venture. We have done quite a few week long trips. We have done a couple of month long trips one out west last year and a Florida trip we just returned from were we slept on the boat all but two nights. I thought about a larger boat in thinking of doing the loop. I guess the loop plan would be to do month long segments. We sleep on our boat about fifty nights a year and with the memory foam changes to the berth,with a extra comforter and a trava sack bedding arrangement we are pretty comfortable. The portapottie thing is something we can live with it it will save us from the expense of switching boats. I think switching to a bigger boat for us is probably off the table unless I could find a nice used 26' Venture at a fire sale. That's probably not going to happen. Thanks again for the wake up call.
D.D.
 
The two boats are not direct competitors..
Inboard versus outboard
Fabric interior and wood versus cleaning it out with a garden hose
Reverse air/heat versus not
Heavier versus lighter
More systems to maintain versus fewer
More expensive versus less expensive (which is relative - the cost of a new CD26 is what?)

More specific to Ranger:
Hot shower water from engine and/or shore power
Built in diesel generator (option)
Larger console for MFD/electronics
Thrusters bow and stern
Pull the mattress out of the quarter berth and use it for mucho storage

General:
A 1 ton truck for an R25/27 is vast overkill... The tongue weight is not an issue and my 2500HD Duramax barely knows it is back there...
I average a gallon an hour - last day cruise was 6 hours and we burned 6.2 gallons...

Would I have been happy with a CD had I found one?
Yes, absolutely - but we enjoy the amenities of the Ranger...
 
Having sold a 2008 CD25 in October and just taken delivery of a new 2010 Ranger Tug R25, I can share my thoughts on both boats and share some of the thinking as to why I made a switch.

First of all, I loved the CD25. It had twin Honda 90's, up to date integrated Raymarine electronics including radar, chart plotter, sounder/fish finder, and auto pilot, roof top A/C, and a Airhead composting toilet. With the cockpit enclosure, it had plenty of living space for two people. It was fast and I could launch and retrieve it fairly easily.

Why did I sell it? My wife has Multiple Sclerosis and although she is fairly ambulatory, it was difficult for her to board the CD25 by climbing over the gunnel. We've had lot's of boats over the years and the last few before the CD25 were large express cruisers with substantial swim platforms and stern doors to enter the cockpit and she could more easily board the boats by stepping from the dock on to the swim platform.

We also live on a lake that can get fairly shallow in spots so the shallow draft of the CD25 worked out well.

So when we decided to change boats we looked at Ranger Tugs and the new Cutwaters because both offered easier boarding for Deb and both also offered shallow draft.

After looking at lots of boats from used R29's to new R27's, the Cutwater 26, R25SC's, we decided on going after one of the few new R25's still out there and bought one from Marc at Wefings and had it delivered. It arrived last Saturday and I put it in the water on Monday.

What's my opinion of the two boats? Well, I can launch and retrieve either of them by myself. I need a ramp that has a long dock so I can walk out to either boat and board it after I back the trailer in. I was afraid the R25 would be more difficult but the bow and stern thrusters make maneuvering the boat on and off the trailer and around the dock very easy. The R25 also handles the wind a little better around the dock and at very slow speeds. I have a video that shows Marc loading the boat on the trailer when I went to Florida for the sea trial and you can see it's pretty simple. The video is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igvELMBg ... oDd7cQL04=
If you look closely in the video at 1:21 into it there is a shot of the Garmin display that shows us running at 7.2mph and getting 9.7mpg. The R25 is and feels heavier in the water but runs quite nicely although I haven't measured a top speed yet. As noted by others, the fit and finish are very nice and the customer service from Ranger Tugs is outstanding.

Our reasons for choosing one boat over the other though come back to how easy it is for Deb to board. The R25 has a nice large swim platform and an option which I had installed is a rail that extends across the back of the swim platform. That rail provides for extra handholds when boarding and works very nicely for us.

Without Deb's condition as a deciding factor, it comes down to what others have said and that is a more utilitarian boat that is easier to maintain and comes at a lower cost versus one that has a diesel inboard, a very complete list of factory standard equipment, and an upscale look at a higher price.

Both great boats, both draw a lot of attention from others, both great cruisers.

Jeff
the Get~Aweigh (2010 R25)
 
I looked through Jeff's Get-Aweigh Album and found the following two pictures that make for some nice visual comparisons between the two boats:

Boat_Name_003.jpg
IMG_0987.jpg
 
I should have mentioned my intention was to compare a used twenty five foot Ranger Tug to a used Twenty five foot C-Dory. Used 26' Ventures are too rare for me to consider. Jeff's post about the swim platforms on the Rangers is an important feature for a lot of people and one of the things that make the boat a joy to board or swim, snorkle off of. Plus having cleats back there is another plus when tieing up at the dock. But in comparing the two used boats for me I see about a 40 k difference in price based on used prices for the two. For me a least I don't see that as 40 k I'd be willing to spend based on the six or eight knot speed required to gain fuel ecomomy. The diesel generator option is sweet but what a cost yowie. We already have air conditioning that we can use in campgrounds while traveling with a heat strip and hot water available at our sink when shore power is available. We have a Espar diesel heater for our late autumn striper fishing trips. And yes we have no bathroom just a portapottie. I kind of like not having to use pumpouts. I like the Rangers a lot but all things considered for us we will stay with the boat we currently use. That forty or fifty k can buy a lot of fuel and anti stink tabs for the porta pottie. This is just my view, no stones being thrown at Ranger Tugs or their owners.
D.D.
 
Some really great points--and both are great boats. The ease of boarding is a very important issue for some folks. We went from the C Dory 22 to the C Dory 25 because the 25 definitely has more bunk room--and is easier to get into. (both of these were second boats to the Tom Cat, and kept on the West Coast) We were willing to give that up, after selling the Tom Cat, and went back to the 22 with the ease of trailering. We will probably take a saber saw or rotozip with us this summer, and if we find it is too difficult getting in and out of the bunk of the 22 because of both of our back problems--we then would cut out the bulkhead on the port side between the bunk and seat. (Will also take along some extra of that trim material.)

I think if I was setting out specifically to do the "loop" I would choose the Ranger 27.

I am not so sure that I would say that a one ton truck is "overkill"--there is very little difference between the 2500 Duramax and 3500 Duramax--both are very capable The major difference is in bed load capacity--due to an extra leaf spring --plus I believe you can get lower gearing (depends on transmission) in the 3500. Part of my comment not only relates to the towing weight, but the gear that you carry in the bed of the truck--and that capacity can be "eaten up" fairly quickly in some of the lighter trucks. Both the 2500 and 3500 have probably more capacity than needed for the average C Brat. The cost between the 2500 and 3500 is not much.
 
I'm still lurking on this site, and the CD25 vs Ranger 25 are both still on my short list so I thought I'd read on.

To add to what Bob said, another difference in 3/4 vs 1 ton trucks in addition to the extra leaf spring is usually:

Bigger brakes
Bigger differential.

Other than that 3/4 vs 1 ton are generally identical.

Rob
 
Last week I traded my CD 22 cruiser in for a used 2011 Ranger 27, mostly for the comfort and ease of entry. We went from Anacortes to Sidney, BC on a friends Cutwater 28 and it pretty much spoiled us. We rafted our 22 to his boat for a couple of days at Sucia Island. We spent all our time on his boat except to sleep. It was nice having hot cornbread fresh from the oven and using a real toilet. The following day at the boat show we made the decision. I had looked at many classic 25's used and liked the boat, but their pricepoint is not much lower than I purchased a fully loaded 27 for. Unfortunatley for us the boat will be stored for the winter in Washington since we are back in Calif.
 
One thing that's nice about the 27 is you can actually stand up in the berth area. My wife calls the berth of our CD-22 "the crypt".
 
Will-C":13ehcnd6 said:
I wondered about the differences .....Like fuel mileage for each, winterizing,normal operating expenses like oil changes,fuel filters. I'm not familiar with what kind of service the Yanmar diesel requires.SNIP
Click to expand...

I've had 3 Yanmar diesel engines in 2 sailboats; 1 sloop, 1 cat. I love Yanmars. First, the fuel is much safer, less chance of accidental fume ignition although now pricier. Good Racor diesel fuel filters are a must. You can cruise a diesel at 90% WOT all day and it won't complain where gas engines you need to stay in the 30 - 50% WOT (or less) range to keep them happy. Maintenance with oil and filter changes go hand in hand - do it. Sometimes, in warmer climates, diesel requires an anti algae additive. With those 2 boats, over 9 years, I never had a stuffing box problem - you keep an eye on it and when you're hauled, service it if it's a problem.

Aye.
 
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