4Runner, Xterra, or Pilot tow vehicle for CD22>

B

browntdb

New member
Hello C-Brats,

I will be purchasing a pre-owned CD22 in the coming months. I am having a delemma as to a tow vehicle for a very unique situatiion. I have read posts from the past but none of them address my specific circumstance.

I will be cruising from Anderson Island, WA. The only place on the island to launch a Dory is the Riviera Marina which is at the bottom of a steep winding road. I would guess the slope is about 30 degrees.

We will be leaving the CD 22 at our vacation home on Anderson Island and I will only need to tow it two miles to the marina. We are looking to purchase an SUV, either a mid-2000 years used 4Runner, Xterra, or Pilot. I would consider a V6 or V8. If the marina was on level ground, any of those vehicles would be very suitable for the short distance to the marina. However with the steep grade, I need some advice from owners of these vehicles who may tow a CD22. Do these vehicles, even the V6's have enough low end torque to pull a CD22 up a steep grade? I don't care how slow I would have to go because I am only talking about 200 yards uphill.

As long as we want to buy a SUV, I would like to buy one that would tow the boat short distances instead of buying an SUV that is too lightweight and have to buy an old beater truck to leave on the island just to tow the boat.

Thanks,

Terry
 
You should be in good shape climbing that kind of slope in low low low gear, even with a six cylinder. You need to think ahead though as you consider the great fun that the CD's are BECAUSE they are towable to waters anywhere. You just haven't had full CD fun until you've been on Lake Powell or the Sacramento Delta or Yellowstone Lake, etc. etc. If you ever want to break loose from salt water or home waters, none of the vehicles you mentioned are going to make you happy doing any significant cross country runs either from the safety issue or fuel mileage or power.

Just a think ahead thought for you.

Good luck.
 
We had a 06 Pilot 4 wheel drive with the 3.5 v-6 .plenty of power we pulled our cd -22 all over florida no problems . we took it up the skyline bridge in tampa bay towing our cd-22 weight over 4000lb and towed the cc-23 weight over 5000lb no problems up or down the bridge .we put it in 2nd gear up and down the steep bridge . Pilot would get 15-17 mpg non towing about 12 mpg towing the cd 22 cruiser or the cc-23 that we have. .
We sold the Pilot for a 07 Toyota Sequoia and it tows a little better .
The only problem I had with Pilot was the tongue weight for the cc-23 weighed down the Pilots rear Independent suspensioAll in all the Pilot was a very capable SUV
I guess it depends on what you can buy for how much$ All 3 SUV are very capable Good luck in your choice .
 
I tow a CD-22 with a '06 Toyota Sienna with a tow package. It tows very nicely and gets ~13.5 MPG in suburban traffic while towing the boat on a tandem trailer.

Based on what I found on the web, I did put in Air Lift airbags in the suspension before I started towing this boat. These prevent the suspension from sitting too low when the boat is attached.
 
30 degrees sounded very steep to me and we generally overestimate the grade of roads. So just for fun, I mapped it out. I have to admit I was expecting to find a grade of 10-12% (which is what the N. side of Queen Anne Hill is). But the max grade I found was about 19%. That's damn steep!
 
That is a steep grade! We towed the 22 with a pilot--even the 25 very short distances. A equalizer hitch can help with the weight distribution. For the short distances, the Pilot would be OK-for long distances, we sold the pilot and bought a Yukon XL--far better choice, and gets better gas mileage when towing than the Pilot (not so on the road non towing)
 
Yes it is, and that is the real dilemma trying to get a vehicle that will tow a CD22 up that hill and safely take it down the winding hill as well.
 
Do any of those SUVs have a low range in their transfer case? That would make the difference. Doubling the torque at low speed allows a lightweight vehicle to do amazing things albeit at very low speeds.
 
You can slap a tow hitch and wiring on just about anything. We saw a Toyota Prius towing a boat on I5 over the summer.

I completely wore out my jeep towing a boat. Could it do it? Yes, it did. Hills were sketchy, especially coming back down. Bumps in the road were white knuckle ordeals. Nearly every part of that truck was worn out pre-maturely. Im lucky I didn't hurt myself or someone else on the road.

Buy something heavy duty, its a lot safer and cheaper in the long run. I chose an older diesel dodge pickup. I get 21 mpg on the hwy, and 16 towing the boat. I can hook the trailer up and tow anywhere in the US without hesitation.
 
PaulNBriannaLynn":gmjxey7e said:
...
Buy something heavy duty, its a lot safer and cheaper in the long run. I chose an older diesel dodge pickup. I get 21 mpg on the hwy, and 16 towing the boat. I can hook the trailer up and tow anywhere in the US without hesitation.
Click to expand...

I hear what you are saying for towing "anywhere in the US," but the OP is towing two miles on an island at a slow pace (with a 200 yard hill). The boat won't be leaving the island with this tow rig. It seems like the ability to tow/stop in low gear would be more important than cross-country/highway performance for this situation, and I can see why a vehicle that suits other the OP's purposes better (than a pickup) would be sought.

I don't have any direct advice, but I happen to remember C-Brat "matt_unique" mentioning pulling his Tomcat 25 out of the water with a previous-generation Toyota Tacoma 6-cylinder (not even as beefy as the newer ones). That was because he could use low gear and just crawl on up. Of course it would be unsuitable for cross-country or even cross town towing.

Here is what he had to say, then a link:

matt_unique":gmjxey7e said:
I have a 2004 Tacoma 6 cyl with 4WD. I would have no concerns about towing a C-22 whatsoever. (I don't know the specs on the 01 Tacoma).

I can easily - yes easily - tow my 10,000lb Tomcat up and down low tide ramps in low range 4WD without lugging my 131,000 mile engine. I release brake, press the gas gently, and it moves. I use my Taco to move her out of harms way when a hurricane is coming or if I need to work on it. Now - she could NOT tow 10,000 lbs beyond about 15 mph. Way too much weight, etc. I rent an F-250 diesel to tow on the highway.

With the above as context, I would not personally hesitate towing a C-22 in high range 2wd on the highway based on my 04 Tacoma. I would always use low range 4WD for the ramp of course regardless of weight. In MA we have an 8-11' tidal change and at low tide you can barely walk on the slime let alone drive anything with just 2 wheels of power.
Click to expand...

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?p=202266&sid=261cd0653de64bcef92505d5c9f735c0
Seems like 4wd with low range, plus a short drive and low speed are the keys to it (?).
 
Sorry about the blank posts, I typed a response, but it just comes up blank in preview and submit (?)

Let me try again:

PaulNBriannaLynn":24hfpnaw said:
Buy something heavy duty, its a lot safer and cheaper in the long run. I chose an older diesel dodge pickup. I get 21 mpg on the hwy, and 16 towing the boat. I can hook the trailer up and tow anywhere in the US without hesitation.
Click to expand...

I hear what you are saying for towing "anywhere in the US," but the OP is towing two miles on an island at a slow pace (with a 200 yard hill). The boat won't be leaving the island with this tow rig. It seems like the ability to pull/stop in low gear crawling up a hill would be more important than cross-country/highway performance for this situation, and I can see why a vehicle that suits the OP's other purposes better would be sought.

I don't have any direct advice, but I happen to remember C-Brat "matt_unique" mentioning pulling his Tomcat 25 out of the water with a previous-generation Toyota Tacoma 6-cylinder (not even as beefy as the newer ones). That was because he could use low gear and just crawl on up. Of course it would be unsuitable for cross-country or even cross town towing.

Here is what he had to say:

matt_unique":24hfpnaw said:
I have a 2004 Tacoma 6 cyl with 4WD. I would have no concerns about towing a C-22 whatsoever....

I can easily - yes easily - tow my 10,000lb Tomcat up and down low tide ramps in low range 4WD without lugging my 131,000 mile engine. I release brake, press the gas gently, and it moves. I use my Taco to move her out of harms way when a hurricane is coming or if I need to work on it. Now - she could NOT tow 10,000 lbs beyond about 15 mph. Way too much weight, etc. I rent an F-250 diesel to tow on the highway.

With the above as context, I would not personally hesitate towing a C-22 in high range 2wd on the highway based on my 04 Tacoma. I would always use low range 4WD for the ramp of course regardless of weight. In MA we have an 8-11' tidal change and at low tide you can barely walk on the slime let alone drive anything with just 2 wheels of power.
Click to expand...

So it seems like 4wd with low range and low speed are the keys to it (?).
 
browntdb-

The "30 degree grade" would be 50%!

But even if you meant a 30% grade, that's really steep!

The steepest grade I know of on a major paved highway around here (Northern California) is only 9%!

For that steep a climb, I'd recommend a used farm tractor.

They use them on the steep walls of the levees down in the California Delta, and also use them to launch trailer boats in the ocean surf.

The big rear wheels are great on slippery pavement or in sand!

watertaxi-01.jpg


Joe. :teeth :thup
 
I think I probably didn't have the degree slope right, but a previous post to this thread mapped the slope to 19%. I just know it is really steep and a worry.

Terry
 
YUP 19% is real steep. Now it it is paved and dry you should be able to handle that in low low gear going up or down. Hope it is not too long or you will heat up your trailer brakes some. If that is gravel then you are going to want something with more weight doing the towing. The extra weight will help maintain traction. Might be able to find a local with a 3/4 or 1T dually to make the pull, especially if it is going to be a very infrequent trip.

Good luck and hang on :wink:

Harvey
SleepyC:moon
 
This is an interesting discussion. I have a friend who lives on a street with 19% grade (in snow-country yet!), and it is steep. When you go past the houses on the side hill, they look like they are built crooked - I guess just because the brain can't quite parse that you (in the car) are that angled.

But still, with good trailer brakes and a vehicle with 4WD and low gear.... would it really need to be a 1-ton/dually? Or even a 3/4-ton? I feel like a non-huge tractor could do it, and they're not that heavy - or are they? So I'm still thinking something smaller, properly equipped, could do it (like a 4-Runner, etc.). I mean, assuming no snow or ice conditions.

That said, I have never done it, so I may be off base. And it's always interesting to learn more about something like this. Reminds me of having professional boat movers come to get (big) boats out of crazy places, and how it's enjoyable as they noodle all the possible ways and then eventually make it happen (to my amazement sometimes).
 
Hi Terry,

I'm often in the position of advising folks on tow vehicles when they're looking for a new (to them) boat. In general I'm pretty conservative with my recommendations but that said there's no reason to overdo it for specific requirements.

Something like the Honda Pilot is a good case in point. Would I tow a CD22 in western Washington with that vehicle? Absolutely. Would it be the best choice for long distance trailering or for a lot of use in the mountains? Not really. Could it do it? Yes, but I'm pretty sure on some days you'd really rather have something else.

My personal tow vehicle is an F350 4-door dually 4x4. When towing a CD22 or Marinaut it's really easy to forget it's trailing behind you and it's definitely a situation where the dog is wagging the tail and not the other way round. Regardless of how well I like my truck and how comfortable it is to tow with I wouldn't, out of hand, recommend it for every towing need; it's just way more than one needs a lot of the time.

For your use anything rated at or above 4,500 pounds will work just fine. Almost anything with a V-6 or larger and with a transmission will pull the load up the hill. The smaller (really, let's say lighter) you go with your tow vehicle the more I'd recommend all-wheel or 4-wheel drive.

The rules all change at the top when you're facing downhill. Now you have 4,000 or so pounds trying to push you down the hill and that's a LOT different from trying to drag it uphill. My recommendation, with no regard for your budget, is to get a trailer with electric-over-hydraulic disc brakes (or add it to the trailer that comes with the boat). With an in-cab controller (required) you'll then be able to set up the brakes to actually work with the tow vehicle. Set up correctly your tow vehicle will stop as well or better than it does on it's own. Even though the electric-over-hydraulic brakes aren't inexpensive they're probably a lot less that the extra cost of buying a much larger tow vehicle than you'd like.

Another important aspect is tongue weight. I consider this just about as important as rated towing capacity. You may have a tow vehicle that can actually pull 4,500 pounds but it it's a lightly sprung passenger car or even an SUV when you drop 400-odd pounds on the hitch the tail end of the tow vehicle really sags (and consequently, lifts the front of the tow vehicle). Going downhill this is a bad situation; most of the braking on your tow vehicle will be on the front wheels and you want them firmly planted and not lightened up (very much) from the tongue weight. An equalizer hitch solves this situation but it's inconvenient to install each time you launch and/or retrieve and they don't like really tight turns. However, it is an option. The better option, most likely, is choosing a tow rig that can handle the tongue weight without undue sag.

I know it's looks funny when you're shopping for a tow rig but if you can get a couple of 200-pounders to step on the rear bumper you'll get a good idea of how well the rear end of the potential tow vehicle responds to weight.

There are a lot of variables here and you'll have to make your best choice based on what fits you best. If you go for a lighter tow rig (Pilot, Xterra, etc) then I think the electric-over-hydraulic brakes are much more important and it would be good if the tow rig had either heavy or adjustable suspension. A medium rig (Jeep Grand Cherokee, Yukon, Sequoia etc), would likely be ok with just the typical surge brakes if it didn't sag much with the tongue weight (and it shouldn't). A heavy weight tow rig (like my F350) would handle the tongue weight easily and wouldn't even need trailer brakes (though I'd definitely have them and they'd be required by law).

Unless you go for a heavy weight tow rig (and that doesn't sound like what you really want) the condition of the brakes on the trailer will be very important so make sure (especially if they're surge brakes) that they're in top working order.

Hope this helps sort things out a bit.
 
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