50 HP Honda on 22Ft classic

T

T Lats

New member
Just wondering if anyone has this setup and has some specs on what type of speed they make and what r.p.m they run.
My boat only makes 14 knots at 4900 rpm. That is all the r.p.m that I can achieve.
Maybe I need to reprop? Am I wrong thinking the prop will give me the full 5700 r.p.m.?
Any info on this would help.

Thanks
 
T Lats,

It sound like your prop has too much pitch. I would try a prop with 1 to 2 inches less pitch. The motor should achieve the 'wide open throttle' RPM specified in the owners manual.

Sometimes you can borrow a prop for testing, or buy one from a dealer with exchange privileges.
 
T Lats-

Welcome aboard!

You can definitely raise your rpm by lowering your prop pitch.

The standard rule of thumb is 1" of prop pitch change = 200 rpm, so 5700-4900 = 800 rpm, and 800/200 = 4 inches of prop pitch reduction. However, I'd start with a 2' pitch reduction and see what you get first, as 4" is a lot, probably too much.

What pitch prop are you now running?

The "Classic" CD-22 was designed for a 70 hp 2-cycle (light weight, about 250 lb) engine.

At 50 hp you have 50/70 , or 71% of the recommended h. p.

You'll probably get an increase to a top speed of 16-17 knots, as a guess. It's harder to determine without knowing your present pitch, and even knowing that still would leave some unpredictability because of other unknown factors.

With the underpowered situation you're in, some may be surprised that your boat will plane, but it gets a lot of help from the light weight of the engine.

Joe.:teeth
 
Thank you guys for the info!! I will check on my pitch and go from there. I believe I will also be looking into one of those Hydrofoil attachments to help get my bow down in the water. I may also be considering a repower with a larger Honda possibly a 90 HP.
I have been keeping an eye on all the posts here, they are very helpful

Thanks again
 
Years ago when I was agonizing over power options for my Classic I ran across some test data for the Honda 50 (and the Honda 75). I think it was on the C-Dory site and I think it was also on the Honda site. I can't find it on the C-dory site. It is on the Honda site at the cut and paste link below (sorry, I'm a net moron).

http://www.honda-marine.com/performancetest.aspx#332

They tested a 99 Cruiser with an 11 1/4 X 13 X 3 on a 50. Top speed at 5400 RPM was 19 MPH. I would think a Classic should do a bit better with the flat bottom.

Hope this helps.

Mike
 
OK so when you go to my bad link, select Fiberglass-Monohull-50 and hit "Find Prop Tests" and you should see the link to the C-Dory 50 test. If you switch to 75 you'll see the link to the C-dory 75 test.

Sorry for the confusion.

Mike
 
Interesting to look at the two 22' tests. In one case, the boat is
over-proped and the maxed at (I think) 4mpg. When proped correctly,
they got 5mpg.

We're topping out at 5700 rpm right now and getting 4.7mpg anywhere
in the 4000-4600 rpm range. Lots of tab - about 3/4, and the motor
has a mid-range tilt.

I'd have to check our pitch. We have an AL Honda prop.

Mike
 
I would go for at least a 75 Honda if not a 90. My 1983 Classic runs great with my 90 even with a large load.
I think you are straining that 50 hp. JMHO
 
when i bought the Duck 2yrs ago it came with a honda 50 top speed was 16mph at about 5500 rpm way to stressed for my tastes . i bought the 90 hp suzuki best decision plenty of power with full fuel ,water and 4 people still can hit 30mph . the honda was always having fuel problems with those pesky carbs . love the suzuki i guess if all you do is go fishing and trolling i guess the 50 is ok
 
T Lat: I'd combine Larry H and Mac's numbers test as the starting point. Take about 3-4 props with you for heavy/light loads.

When folks ask how fast does it go, I start thinking they need to look at another hull design from our tuff C-Dory boats.

Do get your RPMs up to the correct limit with which ever type/size prop you need.

Now not asking what to repower with, I feel you are happy with the 50 you have now. With that, start with a light loaded boat and find the correct prop to get to the RPM range. Load the boat heavy, and get a second prop for that load, again, making sure you get the max RPM range. The speed things will be what they will be, because you do have a 50 hp. Many hours of good times for sure to be had with the current 50hp motor, and a couple of differant props to better take care of that motor. And... with the 50, you may find it a bit easier on the boat to move your 50-60 quart cooler away from the stern, and forward in the boat...even on the berth would help planing sooner...and...not as far to go for another beverage as you enjoy a nice, slower, smooth ride.

I have just returned from a 5 day river trip on my 18Angler classic. A new gizmo that really helped my fuel mileage with my 50 hp motor, was a "inclometer?".... the little gizmo more often used on sail boats as to show the side to side angle of the boat. I found that I gained about 1 mpg by simply keeping my hull running flat in the water.....simply by shifting the cooler from side to side a bit....
 
What struck me about the prop tests with the 50 and the 75 was that once on a plane the mileage was pretty much the same for the same speeds, so it takes a certain amount of power to go a certain speed and the bigger motor only lets one go faster. So if you don't need to go 25 MPH or whatever a well-propped 50 will do just fine. Actually I tend to think the 75 and 90 are too heavy for the old Classics, but we mostly seem to have them myself included. The 50 is closer to the weight of the old 2-stroke 70 the boat was designed around.

Good luck!

Mike
 
I also have a 50hp honda on a 1995 cd-22 cruiser, I have the same problem with top speed (about 14) but a more serious problem, anything over 10 knots and the boat wants to fishtail and not track properly, this is much worse in a following sea. I have installed trim tabs but it doesn't help much, changed the angle of the motor/transom etc.. tried shifting weight around with no help. thanks for any suggestions you may have.

Danny

PS: How do I determine the pitch? Is it stamped somewhere on the prop??
 
T Lats":2lc8p2bj said:
Thank you guys for the info!! I will check on my pitch and go from there. I believe I will also be looking into one of those Hydrofoil attachments to help get my bow down in the water. I may also be considering a repower with a larger Honda possibly a 90 HP.
I have been keeping an eye on all the posts here, they are very helpful

Thanks again
Click to expand...

Before you do the Hydrofoil or anything else, make sure that the pin that is removable in the mount for your 50 allows the engine to go all the way down and isn't keeping your bow pitched up. If it isn't in the most forward position, it could be keeping you from the bow down attitude at top speed. Play with that a little and see what it does. Don't go overboard with it or you could play submarine in a big wave... :shock: :cry The cavitation plate above the prop should be just about paralell with the flat boat bottom.

Have you changed props yet?

Charlie
 
I kinda doubt that much will help trying to push that boat with just a 50hp....I have tried to get my boat up on plane using a single 40hp...and it says...NO WAY !!!
What ya really need is to add another 50 and you would have a neat set..... I have thought if I were to re-engine my 22 I would go with twin 50's
With my twin 40 Yamaha's I average 4 to 4.5 mpg....

Joel
SEA3PO
 
Even with the correct prop, you will not be cruising at much more than 14 mph. (The Honda tests are in MPH). I am not sure if there will be that much difference in planing speed between the "Classic" (pre 87) and the "impoved". Both boats have very little dead rise aft and are relitatively flat on the planing surface.

What you are doing now is to be at the worse part of the power curve, as the boat struggles to get on a plane--This is lugging the engine, and is not good for it--or for economy.

The other thing to remember is that "tests" are done on a light boat--for example my CD 25 weight in the mid 4500 lb range, vs 7 to 8K for boats ready to cruise.

Irregardless you need to look at the pitch--it will be stamped on the prop either between two blades or molded on the back of the hub. A prop shop can also determine the pitch, either with a computer or "pitch guages/pitch blocks". One other factor is altitude--if you are above sea level, the engine will be less effecient and producing less HP.
 
I believe my lower unit has been going for some time now and it did!! I have ordered one and will see if this helps my W.O.T problem. The prop is 11 1/4 x 13 so I am hesitant to change this until I am set up with a new lower unit. Something has not been right down there all winter and I finally figured it out with a big bang right out of the harbor!! We managed to limp back in and get it out of the water it just did not sound very good.
I will get the new unit on and keep the post up to date

Thanks
 
T Lats If you are looking at a hydrofoil consider trim tabs. They make a world of differance on these boats.
Tnx, Jimbo
 
josepepper: If your engine mount and everything checks out good at the stern I would suspect your handling problems could be caused by water buildup in the space under the v-birth. This situation could cause your bow (heavy) to ride low and make the stern lift and slide. Leaving you disappointed in your boats handling. Trim tabs would not help this situation.

Two known ways for water to collect under the v-birth: Check your anchor locker drain hole. Many were drilled higher than the locker floor. This let water puddle. Then the hole to the outside of the boat was not properly sealed. This lets the water flow down inside the hull into the flotation chamber under the v-birth. Some people drill a tiny hole at the center floor base of the v-birth. With the bow raised on the trailer, water should flow out this hole if it has entered the chamber. When the water stops plug the hole with a dab of sealant. Others have cut a 6" hole behind where the porta pot sits and installed an inspection cover facing aft.

Another way for water to build up is that the screws/holes used to hold the brass rub bead on the bow bottom "V" were too long. Allowing water in to the chamber. With boat on trailer bow down. Remove screws. See if water pours out. Add sealant and reinstall screws.
 
I'm running a brand new 70HP Yamaha, replaced the old 1989 with an 07 and with the stainless steel Yamaha 17K prop I am getting apporx 18mph at 4200 rpm and 25-30 mph at 5200-5300 rpm all depends on tides and wind etc. Quite happy with the light weight 238lb 70 2strokes. When I thought about adding 100-120lbs of weight back there I decided to stay with the traditional 2 stroke on my classic 22 Angler.
 
When I thought about adding 100-120lbs of weight back there I decided to stay with the traditional 2 stroke
Click to expand...
I'm still running my original '89 Johnson 70 and my thoughts track closely with Quarnet's. If I had to re-power tomorrow I'd likely have Johnny rebuilt for a couple thousand. I haven't been able to justify a new motor no matter how I massage the numbers, fuel-savings notwithstanding.
 
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