About that anchor light...

T

tparrent

New member
One of the items found in my purchase survey was an inoperable anchor light. I believe it's an LED so a burned out bulb is less likely than a wiring problem.

Only a few of you C Brats are familiar with my stunning incompetence when it comes to all things mechanical and electrical. Want an epic cruise? Follow me to a hardware store.

Nonetheless, I'm willing to give this the old college try (when a trade school try would be oh so much better). I ask for your thoughts and prayers that it is a simple blown fuse because I have at least a 25% chance of being able to fix that without doing more damage.

If the fuses are smugly intact, where should I start with my multimeter?
 
Unfortunately there have been changes in both the wiring and position of the light. Most likely there is a 3 way switch. This will be "Anchor", "Navigation" and center is "off".

Since you have a multimeter, you already have knowledge of how to put the range on 12 V DC and then red probe to positive, and black probe to negative.

Find the negative bus bar under the console. Put the black probe to it. (There may be both yellow and black negatives In a recent Tom Cat. Then identify the switch which turns on navigation and anchor lights. On the back of It there will be a red in--which should read 12+ volts all of the time. The other switches should be: one to the anchor light only, and one to both anchor and side lights red and green. Both of these should read 12+ volts when the switch is turned to the proper position.

If these are both OK, then move to the holder for the anchor lite stanchion. There will probably be 2 or 3 points in the base. I would then put the black probe on the outside of the base--which is often grounded, and then with the switch In "anchor" position, check to see if one of the other points is 12+ volts. If this is OI, then up to the top of the stachion and see if there is a removable bulb. Many of the newer no longer have bulbs, but the LED unit is hard wired to the top. In that case, I usually use "jumpers" from the battery to the terminals of the base. I carry four 18" jumper wires, with thin alligator clips on both ends, plus about 20' of # 14 wire in a coil on board, so I can trouble shoot at any point, with a known source of 12 V DC voltage.

Often it is an issue of contacts corroded, or wiring corroded at a butt or ring terminal. This may mean cleaning terminals, or even putting a new butt or ring terminal connection. There are cheap crimpers--but I carry a good ratchet crimper and an assortment of adhesive heat shrink, ring and butt terminals on board. So I can replace if necessary.

On my 2006 Tom Cat, unfortunately there were some butt terminals which were not properly crimped and protected with adhesive lined heat shrink tubing from the factory, so I had to trouble shoot and find where there were connections. While you are at it--bring a labeler and label each wire, at the fuse block and where you find it exposed along the way.

Good hunting! Most likely corrosion or a bad fuse. Keep an assortment of fuses. Also some boats have both a circuit breaker and fuse --these will often be the older boats where someone has re-wired the boat..
 
If it is one of those removable lights on a pole with the plastic screw cap to hold it on there it could be poor connections where the pole plugs into the base. Happens often. If the light will come on or blink while twisting/wiggling the pole then it might be as simple as that.

Fixing it, however, isn't always as simple without replacing the plug components. The little holes and the little pegs they go over are hard to clean, and if the little holes are wallered out (technical term used by retired millwrights pretending to be electricians) then restoring the contacts is difficult.

Good luck.
 
If you need to clean the contacts just buy some contact cleaner at any automotive store. Just spray it on and It works like a charm. Very handy to have on the boat regardless.
 
Tom,

The “negative bus bar under the (helm) console” that Bob refers to looks like this, with a big red (positive 12v) cable connected to the bottom bolt and a big yellow (previous std was black) neg 12v cable connected to the top bolt.

When the current between the two for any individual circuit becomes too high for the given fuse rating, the fuse burns through and no current flows to prevent a fire or damage.

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Blade-B ... ag=mh0b-20

It can actually sometimes be a bit tough to pull a fuse and see if the tiny filament has parted (a blown fuse).

I have converted to all Blue Seas “Easy ID” fuses, which have a tiny LED which ‘lights up’ when that fuse has blown. For $31, you can replace ALL the fuses in that block and have a better idea, even in darkness, if you have a blown fuse. If the ‘legs’ on a fuse are discolored, grimy or dark, replace it and be done with it.

Many would argue that $31 is WAY too much to pay for the convenience of quickly identifying a tiny blown fuse, when you can do the same thing with a good light, a magnifying light, a loupe, a bright white background, a continuity testing apparatus, an oscilloscope (just kidding) and the knowledge of how to utilize them all. I beg to differ. Indulge me here for $31 for those who can afford it without having to steal Fifi’s cat food for dinner. I’ve found they work great and saved me many hours of troubleshooting.

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems ... 186&sr=8-1

If you have a Blue Seas 12v switch panel that looks like this except in white, make sure the little white push button under the plastic cover is not popped out… this is a 30A circuit breaker (not a fuse), but I would NOT expect nav lights to ever pop a 30A breaker. Still, worth checking.

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems ... 184&sr=8-8


Bob,
Isn’t there a purple wire from the back side of the fuse block from the NAV/OFF/ANC switch that turns on various instrument panel backlighting when NAV is ON? Could that help Tom ID the correct switch? Not sure...

Happy Hunting!
John
 
Never heard of lighted fuses.

Given that I spent more than two weeks tracking down an electrical problem on a simple fishing boat (who knew there were two batteries and I was messing with the trolling battery instead of the main one?), I need all the help that I can get.
 
The “negative bus bar under the (helm) console” that Bob refers to looks like this, with a big red (positive 12v) cable connected to the bottom bolt and a big yellow (previous std was black) neg 12v cable connected to the top bolt.
Click to expand...

A negative bus bar will not have any red wires attached to it. It will be a black base with terminals on a brass strip, and black or yellow wires.

What John shows is a fuse holder--which all of the C Dory's recently seem to have.

John, I don't know what color wire he will find--but yes, there should be a wire to the lights on the gauges, when the Navigation is turned on--but not the anchor position.
 
TyBoo":2rklp0l6 said:
If it is one of those removable lights on a pole with the plastic screw cap to hold it on there it could be poor connections where the pole plugs into the base. Happens often. If the light will come on or blink while twisting/wiggling the pole then it might be as simple as that.

Fixing it, however, isn't always as simple without replacing the plug components. The little holes and the little pegs they go over are hard to clean, and if the little holes are wallered out (technical term used by retired millwrights pretending to be electricians) then restoring the contacts is difficult.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

If it is the type Tyboo in mentioning, the light standard fits down into the base. (Dumb idea for any electrical connection on a boat, especially in Salt water) but that is how they did it. To keep it dry in that connection, I do two things. 1. I don't always put up my anchor light post. It depends on the conditions and timing. 2. When I do mount it, I take the plastic cover off of the base, insert the upright, and then after I check to be sure it lights up when the switch pushed, I then tape the connection with "Rescue Tape" from bottom rolling up, to make sure it stays waterproof.

9_Sept_Seq_2019_Cal.sized.jpg

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

January_2010_346.thumb.jpg
 
Here are some better pictures.

I was way too sore from spending hours on the cabin sole working on the heater to actually climb up top to take pictures.

I did not see anything that looked easy to unscrew (see my post on the hot water heater to understand how critical "easy" is for me)

That metallic button under the light looked like a rivet sort of thing rather than a screw. Might be wrong about that.

TomCat_Anchor_Light_1.jpg

TomCat_Anchor_Light_2.jpg
 
The photos help. My best guess is that this is a "Sea View" strut anchor light--problem is that they come in both LED and incandescent... Is there a name on the main part of the strut?

I agree this looks like a rivet not screw. If it is a Sea View, it will rotate, and probably come loose also. The rotation is to prevent a tree limb from destroying it as you go down the road, so it will be below the radar dome. (I have a fold down on my radar arch, and it is always down as we travel, as are the antennas--OK, I did break one antenna, as I pulled the boat out of the water and a branch got the antenna before I got to a standing area! )..

If It rotates, there is a pretty good chance that there will be access to the wire at this junction--and you can gently undo the bolts and work the anchor light holder free of the base.. Caution--there may be nuts on the radar mount between the base of the dome and top of the strut for this clamp--check on this first--if you can see in this area.
 
I installed a Sea View 16” radar mount and fold over Light Bar to replace my radar mount (which broke off with the radar attached) and to clear the rooftop AC. Bob, good call without even a label!

https://www.amazon.com/SEAVIEW-LTB-90-L ... 8090&psc=1

Like mine, the above provides for loosening 4 bolts to fold over. Sea View offers a $150 quick release option (which sounds like the kind of thing your PO would pay for, and I bet you have it, not a rivet, a quick release lock lever mechanism to rotate and lock).

https://www.hodgesmarine.com/sealtb-90- ... ght-b.html

I have the Perko 1197 incandescent, you have the LED, but the wiring is the same. Both come with a 7 foot lead from the bulb down into the light bar to connect to the boat wiring, most likely above the shelf under the roof bolts for the radar mount. Look for a black or yellow (DC neg) and a gray wire (all nav lights) coming out of the Seaview radar mount (gray is also used for the tach, but that would be under the helm console, not up here). The gray wire for the side port nav light is under the ceiling mouse fur at the aft section of the berth; the port side nav light goes direct into the under console 12v hub center.

Here’s an old but simple boat wiring color guide...since then the approved color for DC negative changed from black to yellow (except in Yamaha world, where yellow is 12V DC POSITIVE ignition on, a horrid exception that I discovered in the most expensive way).

https://www.boatingmag.com/abyc-color-c ... at-wiring/

There are multiple legal ways to wire a boat and stay within standards, so there WILL be differences in the hive advice. Bob referred to a ‘negative bus bar’ under his helm, and I don’t have one but have the ‘fuse block’ I pictured in a prior post. If you have the white version of the Blue Seas 30A switch panel (prior post), it will lead to a Blue Seas fuse block since most circuits require protection of 5-15 amps, not 30. Each fuse is a different color depending on amp rating at which it is designed to blow ie burn through and cut off that circuit. To expand on my prior post regarding Blue Seas “Easy ID” fuses...they only show a LED if the circuit protection has BLOWN, not if it is operating properly.

Find the switch which controls your nav lights. We hope you can see wires from it (gray and perhaps dark blue, which will turn on your instrument lights when you turn on your night running lights as above site) to your fuse block. On the fuse block, look for any gray or blue wire leading into it. That is the circuit you’re looking for. The fuse may be red (10A) but it sure as hell won’t be green (30A) for nav lights. Whatever the color, replace it with a genuine Blue Seas fuse (see my Amazon site for the EZ ID fuses). Sub another lower rated fuse to check if needed quickly.

Does the anchor light come on? If not…

On the fuse block, all positive wires enter the side terminals to enter the fuses, then all circuits exit via the black or yellow wires at the top. Touch your multimeter red probe to the side screw and the black probe to the top, DC voltage should be 13.1 or so on shore power, 12.5 or so off. A decent ‘auto ranging’ volt meter will show varying numbers on a dead circuit so be sure the scale is DC VOLTS and not DC MV millivolts (a dead circuit).

If you have over 12V DC there, then next to check is the gray and black wire leading up to the potted LED in the light. That possible villain is the connection above the shelf between the 7 foot Perko lead and your boat wiring. Cut and strip those wires and crimp on a new connector. You need both these and genuine Ancor butt connectors: (Genuine Ancor is $62).

https://www.amazon.com/Haisstronica-Cri ... s9dHJ1ZQ==

https://www.amazon.com/Stripper-Electri ... 69&sr=8-16

After replacing this crimp, does the anchor light come on?
If you have 12VDC at that connection, but the white anchor light still does not come on, that LED fixture is not fixable. The little black rubber stopper just under the light is an alignment stopper that you can pull out, cut the wires and pull it out. Replace it with a Perko 1197 much cheaper (yes it’s incandescent, but it’s rated for 3 NM not 2, uses almost no power and is under $90 all in).

Anchoring out in a TomCat instead of going to a nice marina is like driving your Mercedes SL550 to a Motel Six to “save money.” (Damn, I’m gonna take a lotta flak for THAT!).

While on the boat at the fold over light bar, call Sea View tech support for how to raise and lower your light bar.
Seaview Systems, Inc
7275 Joy Rd Ste A, Dexter, MI 48130
Phone: +1 734 426 8978
Email: info@seaviewsystems.com
They were very helpful to me.

I am STILL optimistic that you can get this light working for under a Boat Unit!

I think we all appreciate your sense of humor as you go through all this!

Cheers!
John
 
The fuses are labeled and the one labeled Nav Lights is a 30 amp. Of course there's always a chance the labels are incorrect so I'll have to do some tracing. However, the side lights and anchor light appear to the on the same fuse and the red/green lights work so the problem must be farther down the line.

I don't think I have the quick release. That would have made things too easy.

No urgency on this repair as I definitely won't run at night on the ICW and am unlikely to anchor overnight until it gets a lot warmer!
 
A couple of things to add to John's excellent post: You want to either put a string or flexible wire to the ends of the current 1169 Perko fixture, if it must be removed, to use to pull the new wire thru the light bar. When you pull any wire, always "follow" it with a puller string.

I don't use the automatic wire stripper that John links to. I prefer either my pocket knife and a light touch all of the way around the insulation, but also I use one of the all size strippers:

31n8L6Mw8xL._AC_.jpg

I agree that a ratchet type of crimper is important, vs the less expensive "pliers" type.

John. is that black dot which we think might be a rivet just below the light fixture on the light bar the "alignment stopper".

The LED is certified for vessels to 20 meters and 3 miles. I also have LED on my boat. It appears "brighter" than prior incandescent...of course "brightness" is somewhat subjective.because of color difference between LED and incandescent.
Because the incandescent 1197 uses two 10 watt bulbs it draws 1.6 amps. The Led 1697 uses 0.4 amps. I have no idea why C Dory continues to use the two compartment steaming/ anchor light. It is more energy effecient to use a single bulb, since these boats do not have a separate stern light.

Good luck on finding the culprit. But I would put money on the connection that John described between the boat wiring and the LED wiring, and that some moisture has run down from the strut or light bar and caused corrosion where the anchor light wiring attaches to the butt connector. If you don't use a butt connector with adhesive shrink wrap, or even if you do, cover this connector with another layer of shrink wrap-and that will prevent further corrosion.

In my own C Dory's I find that "ABYC" wiring Code is rarely used. Most wiring is the duplex marine red/blk or red/ yellow, in vinyl sheathing.
 
FWIW,

I recently did a bunch of electrical work on the boat; so I bought a good pair of ratcheting crimpers (Ancor). I discovered that I had a lot more to learn than I had anticipated. First off, there are single and double crimpers, and you must know the difference. You must also use the right type of connector for that type of crimper. Next it is critical to push the connectors in the right direction and add the wire from the proper side. How far to place the connector into the jaws is also critical. I wasted many connectors and did many do-overs until I figured all this out. I found lots of advise on Youtube on crimper use, but for whatever reason, although the instruction videos covered a lot, they didn't cover these sorts of issues very well. Just be aware......
 
Anchoring out in a TomCat instead of going to a nice marina is like driving your Mercedes SL550 to a Motel Six to “save money.” (Damn, I’m gonna take a lotta flak for THAT!
Click to expand...

No one else did yet, so I'll take the first shot. :lol: While it's always nice to pull into a full amenity campground, and sometimes just good to get a full recharge or fill the water tanks, there is some real beauty in camping in a primitive BLM space. I didn't use to do so much anchoring, and sometimes I'm still prone to have the pointy end of the boat touching land, or at least a stern anchor ashore, or to be able to walk off the boat at a dock, but I kind of look at parking my boat in a marina the same as pulling a motorhome into a hotel. :mrgreen: Colby
 
Colby :lol: :lol: :lol: Totally. Now a remote park dock, or logging camp dock; Different story.

Tom, 30 amp fuse for your nav(y) :shock: lights seems a bit much. Especially if they are LED lights.

Wonder if there is something else in that circuit?

And, sometimes they are not only for after dark or anchoring use. (See pix below.)

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

IMGP2353.thumb.jpg
 
Bob,

Here’s a pic of my SeaView Perko 1197 insert. There is a rivet in the body of the light, but below that is an insert with potted 5 foot tail and a hole in the light bar which aligns with a hole in the insert. Two plastic alignment plugs (‘rivets’) prevent the insert from twisting within the light bar, which would throw off the arc of anchor/steaming light to sideways or whatever. If they were pried out, I don’t think they could be re-used.

DSC04139.jpg


I dug up the instructions, and it looks like Seaview uses the Attwood 7800 LED light as an alternate to the Perko 1197. It has a 50,000, 10 year warranty and 2NM vis (now I remember that’s why I chose the 3NM Perko 1197). Seaview doesn’t offer a single all-around light option, although all agree that’s all that a C-Dory needs. I suspect C-Dory didn’t add them, owners or dealers did.

Tom,

Turn on your nav lights, pull that 30A fuse, and if the red/green lights go out you’ve got the correct switch and fuse. My white anchor light wire is gray and black as expected (yours likely gray and yellow), contained in a loom from the console, and ends up above the upper shelf where it’s barrel connector spliced to my Perko cable, which is gray and contains the LED + and neg wires.

The largest black cable is the Garmin marine network (ethernet like) which will plug into your MFD, don’t cut that. Another black cable is the radar 5-pin power supply which will dive down to a hopefully labelled fuse, don’t cut that either. My small red and black wires in the pic lead to the hailer/foghorn.

DSC04138.jpg


When you find the loomed gray and yellow wires above the windows where it enters the shelf space, and that connector, that’s the droids you’re looking for. Since in this use BOTH front and aft LED’s must light there may be two gray wires crimped together.

The SS bracket at the base of the light bar is secured by four 1 inch x5/16” bolts with a hex tool. The official rec’d of SeaView lawyers is to loosen and tighten the 4 whenever you fold the light bar over or back up. (I do that with the hook end of a boat pole from the catwalk; it’s much easier than climbing up there). Once the friction seems right, I have not tightened the bolts. Get a std SAE hex key set to adjust as needed.

DSC04145.jpg


To make you feel better, here’s this weeks 12v gremlin story:
The boat has been at the dry slip for 5 weeks, moving less than the average cadaver. Last month the stereo went dead. The fuse block only had 11.6V DC for that circuit. I moved the power leads to the fuse circuit for the shower sump pump, which we never use, and removed the shower sump connection. EUREKA, the stereo worked, except it only made shower noises (just kidding)...except the left speaker was dead. Last time this happened it was the speaker. I bought a pair (they only come in pairs) of replacements, hooked up the brand new left speaker...dead. I used the existing speaker wire, because re-threading through this massive mess is a nightmare, see pic.

DSC04130.jpg

I didn’t try the old presumably bad left speaker on the home stereo (which is of course a Yamaha) since I cut the wires too short. So I bought a replacement Fusion Stereo and hooked it up. Silence on the left in Zone 1. Well, maybe Zone 2 will work on the left and Zone 1 on the right. Nada. So I connected the remaining new speaker with it’s long wire to the new Fusion and EUREKA!! After a few hours of re-threading, all is well.

So what are the chances of a fuse circuit that has been mellow for 10 years abruptly going bad simply because it was NOT being jostled or chafed or bounced around? In my case, 100%. So what are the chances of a speaker wire simultaneously going bad simply because it was NOT being jostled or chafed or bounced around? In my case, 100%.

The Good News, the new speakers and new Fusion stereo plus my time at the mandated $15/hour costs me under a Boat Unit, and I have 2 old but good speakers and an old but good Fusion stereo for the Hontoon silent auction.

Colby,
You are so mean! I went to my room and cried for hours. But yeah, that’s not much flak for that particular transgression against the greater comity.


Happy New Year and one free of a plague of locusts!
John
 
Anchoring out in a TomCat instead of going to a nice marina is like driving your Mercedes SL550 to a Motel Six to “save money.” (Damn, I’m gonna take a lotta flak for THAT!).
Click to expand...
I hate stopping at marinas. I avoid them like the plague. The last time I remember doing it was at Victoria, BC. It was rainy; and it was wet; and we were wet; and our clothes were wet. Spent a night at the dock to get that coveted 120v connection so we could run the 1200w electric heater and dry out. Going out to dinner was a nice change of pace; and the marina's showers were a wonderful treat too. :wink:

My favorite is a small cove with nobody else in it.
 
Looking at all of those wires (and they're under my headliner to add tot he challenge), I'm thinking about hanging a Coleman lantern from a book hook and calling it good.
 
my time at the mandated $15/hour
Click to expand...

Oh my John. You're not worth much. :mrgreen: I consider my time worth $100/hour! And I'm still too cheap to stay in a lot of marinas! :xlol :xlol

Happy New Year! (And may your time go up in worth!)

Colby
 
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