Advice on a first boat

D

DaveWeinstein

New member
I live in the PNW, and I'm tired of fighting for space on the piers or the riverbank for fishing or crabbing.

I have minimal boating experience (that is to say, I've been grunt labor on a sailboat 20 something years ago on a closed lake in Texas), so please assume I'm starting from nothing.

What I'm looking for is a boat that I can take fishing on Puget Sound, is big enough to bring friends and family along (as well as a couple of miniature Dachshunds, from time to time), but is also capable of going out to the San Juan islands.

I'm not concerned with trailering (the only space I could store a trailer already has a small travel trailer in it), and would instead be likely to keep it at Dagmar's (covered out of water storage, put into the water when you are about to take it out).

Thanks,
--Dave
 
Welcome, Dave. You didn't mention if you are specifically looking for a C-dory or any other brand, or a particular price range. Since you are here we can assume C-dory, and with the requirements to bring along friends, family, and dogs, and not concerned about trailering I'd suggest the biggest one you can afford. Current production would be a 255 tomcat. On the used market there might be other great options like the 26' Pro Angler, there's currently a completely re-fitted one at Waypoint Marine in Seattle for $69k. The 25' C-dory is not going to be as fast in the rough water as the Pro-Angler or Tom Cat, but size wise might be good if you aren't in a hurry when it's rough.

The 22's are probably the most popular C-dory model, but I think a big selling point for most owners of this model is it's lightweight trailerability for its size, which doesn't sound to be of much concern in your case. I don't fish but use mine for solo cruising and would think it would be very cramped if bringing several friends and family along. So, the 22' might not be a good match for you. But being one of the oldest models of C-dory it is the most readily available on the used market, and the older ones can be found as low as $20k in the PNW. Like the 25, not the fastest of boats in the rough water.

If looking for an all-weather fishing boat and not concerned about trailerability there are all sorts of other pilot house options good for the NW like Sea Sport, Osprey, and any number of pilot house aluminum boats which seem out-number the fiberglass boats 10 to 1 where I store my boat (also in a dry stack facility similar to Dagmars).

-Mike
 
The C-Dory was certainly high on my list, in part because I know they are common in the PNW.

What I'm mostly looking for is a good fishing boat with a reasonable cost-to-operate, that can be used for solo cruising by a novice, but that doesn't preclude bringing company.
 
Welcome aboard.
I guess we need to know the budget--not only for purchase, but for maintenance, and fuel.

Generally the 22 is best overall. But more than 4 people becomes a crowd. I discussed with my son, about max practical load for the 25, and we agreed it is 8, but that is going to be crowded.

Overnight? If not the 22 angler, has a bigger cockpit, but less cabin, and can be used for minimal cruising.

The way to get knowledge is to start with a Coast Guard Auxiliary or US Power Squadron course in basic boating. I strongly recommend this. Also get one of the nearby "C Brats" to spend a day or so with you on your boat, to explain how to trim it in various conditions. I feel that both the 25 and 22 need the trim tabs, and a hydrofoil, called a "Permatrim" to get the best performance and ride.

The "Bible" is "Chapman's Piloting and Seamanship 67th edition". Place to go for all things boating! A bargain at about $35.

You still need a trailer, for the storage, unless it is "rack stored"

You may have to reach out over the entire country to find the best boat for you.

All off my C Dory's have been purchased at least 1000 miles from my home, except the new Tom Cat, which was about 200 miles away...

Best place to "shop" is on the "Home Page", down at the bottom right.

Good boating
 
Do not be in a hurry to make your choice.
Think about where and how you will use it.
Take a USCG Auxiliary or Power Squadron basic boating course.
Go to dealers, boat shows; ask lots of questions.
Study the weather.
Board boats of interest; ride when possible.
Take more specific boating courses.
Learn about hull shapes and how this affects ride.
Study weather.
Do something else for a while.
Repeat the above.
Learn about weather.
After tiring of your first purchase, don't get discouraged.
Repeat the above.

Aye.
 
I am definitely not in a hurry to purchase. I've ordered the book.

As far as a budget, I'd like to keep it under $50/single-day-outing in fuel, and under $35k for the boat, but I have some flexibility.
 
$50 going to buy you 15 gallons of fuel, currently...(give or take). that could be up to 50 mile range.

The $35K should buy a nice post 2000 C Dory 22. The 25s generally start in the low 50's--the exception is one of the older Cruise Ships--of which there are only 6, and I don't believe any are for sale--which may go as low as the high 30's.

But I usually figure 25% of purchase price as a buffer (some may think that high) to bring the systems, electronics etc up to snuff.

Not only is there the monthly storage fee, there are state possessory interest taxes, insurance, and maintenance, including annual or semi annual haul out for bottom paint. Figure at least $100 to $150 a month in addition to the slip rentals.
 
Dave - just wanted to add a couple of thoughts based on your additional comments regarding budget and your plans for storage and cruising. I agree with Bob, in that price range a nice used 22 would be the best bet (for C-dory). And few boats in that size, if any, would get you as far on $50/day of fuel.

Having launched out of Everett for years I'm familiar with Dagmars location, and think that dry-stack is a great option (I do the same at another facility further North and closer to the San Juans). When I bought my 22 I wasn't even considering the dry stack option until I learned about it from several other C-brats at the Bellingham get-together in August (with special thanks to Peter and Caryn of C-Dancer!). For me the extra cost of storage easily penciled out because I was either towing up to Anacortes and sling-launching, or sling-launching in Edmonds and cruising up to the San Juans. When I added up the cost of truck fuel when towing, launch fees, parking fees, and boat fuel (when cruising from Edmonds), it added up quickly and figured that using the boat just twice a month would cover the cost of the monthly dry-stack storage in a heated secured facility, which includes unlimited daily launching (no need for winterizing either, and also no dunking the trailer into salt water). An unexpected bonus is that the boat is getting used year-round and much more than any boat I've owned previously - with a phone call about 15 minutes ahead the boat is in the water and ready to go when you arrive.

Now back to the fuel cost - one downside I didn't really anticipate is the extra price per gallon I'm paying for boat fuel by keeping in the dry stack. Granted I'm not having to cruise or trailer as far so I'm using much less fuel overall, but the fuel I do use is almost twice what I was paying when fueling on land because of marina fuel prices. Where I keep my boat they don't allow fueling with 5-gal portable tanks so you have to either gas up using their service or some other marina. I suppose one could just load some portable tanks into the boat and fuel up after leaving the marina, but I don't like the idea of those extra cans cluttering up the cockpit or the hassle of it. Not sure what the policy is at Dagmar's, maybe not an issue. So using expensive $4+/gal marina fuel I'm finding that my fuel bill is usually between $60 and $80 but that's usually after about 3 or 4 days of cruising, so I guess that's well under $50/day if you were to travel similar distances in a day of boating.

Regarding the occasional cruise up to the San Juans - the 22' can easily do that from Everett, in fact almost any boat can do it safely with careful planning. One C-brat has even made a longer trip from near the Canadian boarder to Seattle in a 10' skiff! The point being the waters on the inside of Whidbey are very well protected, as are the San Juans, so you should have no worries that any boat you get will be capable of that type of cruise (have done it many times in the 16 - a nice cruise!). Watching the weather is key, and you probably want to get some time under your belt on your first boat before attempting long distance cruises, so you know how the boat handles in rougher water which you'll invariable encounter along the way at some point, if only for short stretches. A few fishing trips from Everett to the South end of Whidbey will provide some quick hands-on experience.

-Mike
 
DaveWeinstein":13kqkhgx said:
The C-Dory was certainly high on my list, in part because I know they are common in the PNW.

What I'm mostly looking for is a good fishing boat with a reasonable cost-to-operate, that can be used for solo cruising by a novice, but that doesn't preclude bringing company.
Click to expand...

Start with A 25 Cruiser, It will save you thousands in Twofootitis! :lol: :lol: :thup
 
I used Dagmar's covered storage for over a year. Wonderful. About the only negative it is about 4 miles to the Puget Sound. But always fast to launch and recover. My wife and I would drive to the boat, unload the day's goodies, call for the launch, drive over to the parking lot at launch site, use the restroom, and often the boat was in the water before we could assist.

We moved to Bremerton and there is no such luxury available, so we leave the boat at the marina. We will always miss Dagmars.
 
First off: welcome aboard! This is a friendly and welcoming group. Considering that you live in the PNW, and have an appreciation for cabin type boats ('cause you're here), you are in the right place to start your search and gather information.

Human nature being what it is, if you ask here what boat to buy, you are going to get told: a C-Dory! Taking that further, most folks will recommend the model they own. What will be the best for you? That is for you to figure out.

If you want to fish, the C-Dorys are very capable. Same with handling snotty weather; the boats can take a lot more than most boaters. Single-handing and taking out friends and neighbors? My suggestion for you is to not buy any boat based on taking along others... for most friends and family, an hour or two on a boat is plenty... and once out is probably enough. If they were interested in boating, they'd have their own boat. So buy the boat that suits YOU.

I once heard: buy your third boat first. In other words: the first two boats are learning experiences. You don't get that experience without buying the first boat... or two. Even though we didn't own one, I think the C-Dory 22 is an ideal first boat AND a boat that you won't necessarily outgrow. It is small and light enough that it is easy to singlehand for docking and anchoring, but plenty of space for an individual or a couple. Four would be fine for an afternoon trip. More than that, and you have to move people to get around on the boat. And, as a new boater, you probably shouldn't be taking anyone out (especially not a crowd) until you get enough experience to get yourself out of any situations your lack of experience gets you into.

The advice to take a Power Squadron or Coast Guard Aux Safe Boating Class is spot on - you will meet other folks like yourself and learn from each other as well as the class material.

If you look at the boat manufacturer and dealer ads, you might believe that every outing is with sunny skies, smiling people, smooth water, and no stupid boaters coming at you from all directions. That, of course, is a fantasy... the fantasy that hooks a lot of us on boating. And when you get to the reality, there is a lot of work that goes along with being a boat owner: cleaning, maintaining, waxing, hauling stuff to and from the boat, learning weather, learning safety aspects, docking (and learning to polish out the scuffs)... as well as the expense: fuel, maintenance, boat stuff (and there is always boat stuff you want), storage, trailer parts, oil changes, batteries, etc, etc, etc, etc. Will you want dock lines that match your boat's trim colors? Well, yeah! You will be looking at a whole new wardrobe.

And, SO MUCH to learn. I have a Captain's Master License and still learn something each time I go out. If you get to the point that you think you know it all (and you will run into those on boats who act like it), you are just making the same trip over and over... boats (at their best) are a platform for exploring!

All this is to say: boating isn't the acquisition of a boat... it is a complete change of lifestyle. There are those who don't feel this way - they are called: former boat owners. You will stop keeping track of expenses and find yourself frequently saying, "It is for the boat," as justification. And, you will be completely happy with that (unless you become a former boat owner).

Enjoy the acquisition - it is part of the boat owning experience. The Seattle Boat Show will be happening in a bit over a month and is a truly great place to see all kinds of boats, all kinds of boat stuff, and to immerse yourself in all things boating. After getting past the "What boat should I buy?" stage, you will go into the "I had no idea there were so many options!" stage. Followed by the "My brain hurts from trying to take all this in" stage. Which leads to the, "OMG, do you know how much that costs?" stage.

:wink:

Good luck with your search.

Jim
 
Good points by all. As usual, Jim was spot on with all of his points. When we bought C-Dancer, our 22' Cruiser new in 2005, I had no boating experience whatsoever and my wife Caryn had similar experience as you, first mate on a sailboat. We have experienced and learned so much in our 12 boating seasons and continue to learn. Although I haven't owned a bigger boat, I feel the 22' is the perfect size for us for all the reasons Jim mentioned. We like to fish as well as cruise. I prefer to separate the 2 activities as the boat can get quite crowded trying to do both. We have done both many times but it's so much easier organizationally to keep it separate. The only thing I miss is the lack of a shower. I can live with the porta potti but a marine head would be nice if we anchored out more. Now that I own a great tow vehicle, towing the 22' is easy too.

It's a funny fact that we have tried almost all sources of storage and moorage up and down the Puget Sound and must say our favorite remains Twin Bridges near Anacortes for all the reasons Mike R mentioned. (Thanks for the shout out Mike) We left TB again this fall only because I have a huge project list I want to complete by next May. We live in Seattle so the drive up and back for day projects gets old. And yes we did store the boat at Dagmars for about 6 months in 2007 or 2008. It's a good, well run facility and it was nice that we had our own rack with water and power avaliable. The only drawback was that long, slow boat ride in the river before getting to the sound. Also, we like to cruise the San Juans and Gulf Islands in the summer and Everett was literally right in the middle so it added a lot of time on the water just to get to where we wanted to go. YMMV.

I hope this helps and good luck in your decision.

Peter
 
I always love Jim's posts:

And, SO MUCH to learn. I have a Captain's Master License and still learn something each time I go out. If you get to the point that you think you know it all (and you will run into those on boats who act like it), you are just making the same trip over and over... boats (at their best) are a platform for exploring!
Click to expand...

This is one of the reasons I love boating, no matter how much experience you have there is always some learning process for me. Jim is always modest, but each year he is out on the water in a commercial passenger carrying boat for 3 to 4 months nearly every day.
 
Dave Said:

"....What I'm looking for is a boat that I can take fishing on Puget Sound, is big enough to bring friends and family along (as well as a couple of miniature Dachshunds, from time to time), but is also capable of going out to the San Juan islands....
Click to expand...

As mentioned already, you posted here so you are looking at an enclosed, (pilot house) style boat as a possibility. For the PNW, that is a good choice due to our weather. As you may have noticed, I have a 22 Cruiser and as Jim said, I will recommend what I have. It works for me, but realistically YMMV. I single hand 90% of the time so there is usually plenty of room. I occasionally take 2 or 3 visitors with me. It works for short (2-4 hour periods), and I have been on the boat for up to 11 weeks in one stretch, carrying most of my food, all of my clothing, and other cruising resources (some books, other shoes and boots), and have been able to be comfortable and self contained.

I live in Sequim, and can easily go across the Strait of Juan de Fuca to Friday Harbor, for $50, spend some time at Jones Island or Stuart Island, go across to Sidney BC and go back to Friday Harbor after a week in the islands, refuel for about $75 - $100 and then go back south across the Strait of Juan for home.

The pilot house boats will allow you to be out when the weather is cool, or rainy, and be shaded in the hot summer sun. Notice that most of them will have a deep vee bottom. That will cost you more $$$ in fuel and engine HP. The C-Dory flat (or nearly so) bottom will provide a lower speed planing hull and more fuel efficiency so you can get by with a lower HP outboard or power system. Also, the C-Dory will be outboard powered, not Inboard-out drive powered. All kinds of good logical reasons for this: easier maintenance, lighter weight, more cockpit room, no big hole in the back of the boat right at the water line to worry about and did I mention more economical to run.

OK, You knew I would be a little biased. I was trying to be fair. Now I'm getting off that horse and going to come right out and say
:hug :love I love my C-Dory :love :hug2

Now that you know a bit about the boats, do this: Take a boating class for sure. Come and see the C-Dorys, (Friday Harbor in May will have a get together with about 50 boats from 16 to 25-6 and the TomCat all there to see).

No pressure, just great folks who love there boats and have a common interest in boating, cruising, fishing and trailering to some extent.

Hope that helps.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

1_10_2012_from_Canon_961.highlight.jpg
 
tsturm":37ixt3k2 said:
DaveWeinstein":37ixt3k2 said:
The C-Dory was certainly high on my list, in part because I know they are common in the PNW.

What I'm mostly looking for is a good fishing boat with a reasonable cost-to-operate, that can be used for solo cruising by a novice, but that doesn't preclude bringing company.
Click to expand...

Start with A 25 Cruiser, It will save you thousands in Twofootitis! :lol: :lol: :thup
Click to expand...

Why didn't anyone tell me this last year! 😄
 
Well, we are not prejudiced...much! The C-Dory part goes without saying around here. Size? Well, are you married? Do you and the Mrs. like to be able to pass each other in the aisle inside the boat? Unless you are both 125 lb twigs, that means a 25!

Honestly, we had a 22 for two years (2003-2004), loved it, and did not know we needed a 25...until 2 years later at the 2005 Seattle Boat Show. She got on it, looked at this, looked at that, came out and said "Let's just go see what the deal is," and I knew we were getting a new boat. Our 25 is Daydream, and it is all we want or need. The good deal? We sold the 22 for almost what we paid for it. No regrets!

Upsides of a 25, LOTS more room inside and out, a lot more stable in most conditions. Downsides, and this may matter, more to purchase and quite a bit more to operate. Many 22 owners report economy that is 1.5x - 2x better than a 25 at typical cruising speeds, and that somewhat conforms to our own experience. But the 25 carries 100 gallons of fuel, the 22 carries ~40 gallons of fuel. And the 25 gets economy when you slow it down to 6-7 knots comparable to a 22 always zooming around.

We also have a 16, Crabby Lou, it is currently out of service with a hydraulic engine lifter issue, but that will get fixed or the boat will get repowered. I love the 16, my wife not so much. But it does not sound like this would suit your requirements,

You really cannot go wrong with either a 22 or a 25, you need to look at them both, take a ride and a turn at helm on each. Good luck in your search!





 
Now Pat, passing in the Isle just depends on how "cosy" you want to get with the Mrs...Marie (125#), and I (180#) manage well. Actually we both seem to like the experience~! But what an excuse to upgrade to a 25...

The issue of towing may not be important to the PO--but you should have a more substantial truck for the 25--which can weigh over 8,000 lbs on the trailer.
 
As predicted, the Boat Show opened up more questions than it answered.

Does anyone here have any experience with the heavy gauge aluminum boats (North River, Duckworth, etc)? How do those compare with a C-Dory as a mostly-not-overnight boat?
 
You will not find an aluminum boat 22' plus enclosed cabin for $35 k.
None will have the economy operating of the c-dory.
A deep vee hull will be at least 8 gallons per hour, so your fuel budget will be busted within 2 hours.
They all look so wonderfull at the boat show.
You will be very hard pressed to find something as good as the c-dory, for the money.
You could find a used Olympic, Osprey, or Seasport 22' outboard for your budget, but your fuel budget needs to rise.
alan
 
DaveWeinstein":w0qmqdxe said:
Does anyone here have any experience with the heavy gauge aluminum boats (North River, Duckworth, etc)? How do those compare with a C-Dory as a mostly-not-overnight boat?
Click to expand...

No personal experience but I see a lot of those boats at the marina where I launch from. They appear to be very nice all-weather fishing platforms. In my opinion they all lack character aesthetically and look more like they were designed by welders or fishermen than naval architects :lol: But since most have deeper V bottoms they will go faster than most C-dories in the rough stuff (with exception of the TomCat), and require larger engines and burn more fuel.

One comparison I can offer is that, as far as I know, none of those boat brands have such dedicated boat owner forums as this one - that may or may not matter to you, but I sure find C-brats to be an invaluable resource compared to the previous boats I've owned, the C-Brats community is what has made me (hopefully!) a life-long C-dory owner from here on out! Funny how you can type almost any boating-related question into the Google machine, and the top results usually include links to C-Brat threads!

-Mike
 
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