Advice on new TomCat purchase

Some folks carry the generator on a small platform in the splashwell or swim step in a storage box, usually with a cover on it if not otherwise enclosed. Others leave it in the cockpit or even keep it in the head or cabinet near the door. Based on how you move around the boat and how you use the space for other items, there should be a good place for it to live on your Tomcat. The 2000 watt size is great for running the boat appliances but the even smaller 1000 watt size can do a good job of charging the 12v system of you only have that need.

Greg
 
Aurelia":px3izcbl said:
Some folks carry the generator on a small platform in the splashwell or swim step in a storage box, usually with a cover on it if not otherwise enclosed. Others leave it in the cockpit or even keep it in the head or cabinet near the door. ...
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On my 22, when we carry it, the Honda 1000 is stored in a plastic tub with a cover in the cockpit when not in use. The top of the tub can double as a table. When used the generator is on a folding plastic step stool strapped to one of the swim steps.

I have a steel cable that goes through a steel eye in the cockpit to discourage the generator from wandering off.
 
ken35216":3mbzymdw said:
I tried storing my Honda 2000 inside but always a gas/exhaust smell that I didn't like.
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Never experienced that. Did you close off the fuel cap vent? We do have a Sunbrella cover for it, but I doubt that would stop fumes/smells.
 
Congrads Kurt and Bev on your new TC255..you’re going to love it!
Stay mellow and realize that it may take several years of cruising on your new ride to discover what you like to do… and don’t. that’s normal. We are at 6 years ownership in Feb, and on the boat tonight (and the last 3 weeks), and still discovering ‘what works and what doesn’t for us”.
Agree a 10kg Rocna with lots of chain is the best compromise. The stainless version is very pretty. My last 4 trailer boats had a Lewmar windlass, and it would not swallow any chain/rode splice unless it was genuine ACCO US-made G3/HT chain over a professional splice to genuine Lewmar 8 plait rode (which does lay down in the anchor locker very nicely compared to any competition). Lewmar apparently regards this as a ‘feature’, not a ‘bug’ and is very proud of this.
The best stern/to sand beach anchor is the 14# Lewmar plow, which fits (barely) in a fish locker with SS lead and rode if you back up to soft sand beaches, which you won’t be doing until you take your rig to Florida, which you should.

No Suzuki 175 TC255 owners are currently posting that I know of. I’d rec’d a 4 blade prop with stern lift properties and a lower pitch than the go-fast crowd would use. Your TomCat will gain weight with age (a universal phenom) and as you guys add ‘nice to have’ plus ‘must have’ stuff. A lower pitch prop helps compensate for this, with better grunt around the docks and in keeping the boat on plane at the lowest possible speeds on top of the slop. There will always be slop. Although politically incorrect to say so, Alaskan boaters in general are expected to be more self-reliant (extra gas filters, spark plugs, etc) than those in, say, Naples, FL.
David M has excellent points. We retrofitted Cat O’Mine with 100% Marinebeam LED lights and now ‘lights’ are the #10 or lower 12V DC draw, #1 being fridge on 12v, #2 being windlass (which may have a lot of use with the engines off in our case) and #3 being electronics suite, some of which we leave on at anchor (AIS transmit and anchor drag alarm on ). Every Brat will differ on this, and again thanks David for a succinct summary that applies to the 99%.
Consider the Victron 702 battery monitor, which will give you precise (I like precise, can you tell?) readouts of 12v amps in and amps out of the House bank and battery voltage (only) of an additional battery of your choice.
The low-bid alternative is the Blue Seas 12V meter to 4 digits (ie, 12.22V) at about $34 on Amazon. The 3 digit $6 car meters are worthless for this.
Consider having the dealer install handholds over the stbd waste pumpout and the port water inlet, over the eyebrow so no ceiling or core penetration issues. If anyone can hold onto the roof rails while unscrewing either of these, we want to see the pictures. My personal wingspan is 4-6 inches short at 6 ft ½ inch (previously 6 ft 1 inch). Also above the aft door, but below bimini level, through the eyebrow, no ceiling penetration.

To date we won’t haul around a Honda 2000IU, though we have two for home standby use. It’s a powerful little bugger, esp compared to solar panels.

Best of luck in your travels and you guys decide what works best for you.
I always advise that new TC255 owners adopt our boating philosophy, which is
“if total damages after deductibles are under $1,000, and no one is seriously injured or killed, then it was a good boating day!”

Cheers from the edge of the Everglades!
John
 
You have some great suggestions. 'We used hydronic heat with 3 zones on our Cal 46: 4 seasons in AK. We used the ProHeat, perhaps as one of the first marine applications--using the truck heater, which was cheaper, and basically the same unit as is now the marine unit. However it is 45,000 BTU--a bit much for the Tom Cat! The Thermo Pro 90 Webasto might be a good choice for the Tom Cat at least 6,100 to over 26,000 BTU. If possible I would be shooting in the 12,000 BTU range. We used copper tubing for towel drying in the head, and hanging lockers for foul weather Gear.

Using hydronic with the heat exchanger (probably best to be better than what the usual engine type is) in a water heater works very well. Best to have a flow thru coils rather than the blind cylinder type as many are. I would do this as after market rather than factory installation.

You are getting advice from folks who have not owned a Tom Cat on the generator. We put our EU 2000 I on the outboard bracket, raised up on a "milk crate". We kept it in the cockpit when not in use. However, I have a mount on my 25, where we have the generator permanently attached to a piece of Starboard, and a weather tight cover which uses "Common Sense" fasteners to protect the generator--and that could easily be transferred to the Tom Cat.

It might be possible to run the water heater off a set of lithium batteries. We have been doing some experimentation, and will shortly do a write up. It takes the standard C Dory 6 gallon water heater 40 minutes and about 120 amp/hrs @ 12 volts to get the water heater fully hot. A 200 amp hour bank, would allow this, but then how do you re-charge the batteries? This bank can accept a charge of over 100 amps an hour. Victron makes an excellent Pure Sine Wave inverter charger (2500 watts/80 amps charger) as does Magnum (2500 Watts/100+ amps charger). But you need a generator to change these up. There is the possibility of a flow thru at 1200 watts, and for shorter time, since the volume of water is smaller. These could come in at under 100 amp hours for two showers. (limited water use).

Definitely have battery monitoring--we favor the Victron 700 series. We have the Victron 2500/80 and are doing all cooking with microwave and induction burner--the outboard charging the 200 amp hour battery back using a Sterling Battery to Battery charger to isolate from the Start Battery, and give the higher charging voltage used by the Li ion batteries. Standard lead acid would be over 150#, and not practical. Li ion are 60 lbs for the 200 amp hours usable at thousands of cycles.

As for stern anchors, we have always favored the High Test Danforth in Steel, or The Fortress--11X would work nicely as a good sand anchor/stern anchor. Not a thing wrong with the Ronca as prime sand anchor, but a back up should always be carried.

We have no problem with an amateur splice 8 plait to 1/4" G 4 chain going thru the horizontal axis windlass. For your AK waters, I probably would go with 50 feet of G4 chain--100'

would be fine. I personally did not feel that the Tom Cat needs more weight in the bow. If anything, less. However, with the deep anchorages, you may want to consider at least 400 feet of 8 plait 1/2" rode. On our larger boats we had 200 feet of chain, backed with 400 feet of line. Secondary anchor, 50 feet chain, and 600 feet rode. This will allow safe anchorage in 100 foot depths--or 75' depths with a 25 foot tide...!

Cats run best kept light. Not always easy to do when cruising. (and I am guilty of being "over weight" boat...!
 
Kurt & Bev,

Your going to love the TomCat. We are now into year 14 with 'Discovery' and still enjoying the boat.

We us a Manson Supreme Boss 25# anchor after having dragging problems with a 22# Bruce type anchor. 65' of 1/4" ACCO chain. The home made splice will occasionally hang in the chain gypsy. Reverse and the forward usually clears it.

We carry a Honda EU2000 generator in a rubber tote in the cockpit. When running the gen. sits on the swim step part of the Armstrong Bracket. I use a bungee from both swimstep rails as safetys to keep it from going overboard. We can have hot water and both shower after 15 minutes running the gen. The water stays hot for up to 2 days afterward.

We have 5 batteries. 2 group 31's port and 3 group 27's Stb. in the rear corners each side of the rear seat. We have 200 watts of solar on the roof and an MPPT type of controller, but it's dated. Looking at new I would go with BattleBorn lithium batteries. Dr. Bob has written about these. Lighter and much more usable capacity.

We heat with an Airtronic D2 from Espar, located under and behind the sink in the galley cabinet. http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?...ame=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

There are other pics of our modifications in the Discovery album. http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?...ame=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

We spent the summer of '15 in your area. 3 months in the SE launching at Skagway and cruising for 1600 miles. Really enjoyed it.
 
I really appreciate all of you taking the time to give us guidance. You have pointed out several issues I need to think about. There is nothing like first hand experience. I would like to have our boat set up as completely as possible from the factory rather than plan on changing things after we take possession. But I know there will be things that remain to be done afterward.

Can you give me any advice on why to choose hydronic heaters over forced air? (it appears more of you have chosen hydronic) It seems that forced air heaters would be easier and cheaper to install and maintain.

Thanks again,
 
I will be curious as to what you find as a good 4 blade prop. I have twin 175 Suzuki’s as well. Mine came with 3 blade props 22 pitch & I’m thinking there 17” for some reason. I get plenty of stern lift & the boat couldn’t run better. However it doesn’t respond well at all in reverse. This is the only one I’ve ever been on so it may be a cat characteristic I’m not sure. This is my only complaint & haven’t found out what to go to so haven’t done anything. I’ve looked at the 4 blade but don’t want to buy something that doesn’t perform as well as what I have as it’s great until you’re docking on a windy day.
 
Congratulations on your new Tomcat! I keep a Honda 2200i on my swim-step in a polished aluminum diamond tread truck box from Tractor Supply (SKU #128240499), mounted on its back with the locking lid up. I added large round screw-in plastic marine access hatches to each end, and remove the discs during use. One side for cooling intake and the opposite side for exhaust. On the hottest of days I will open the top lid when running the roof a/c. The top is lockable, the box is weather proof, and no heavy lifting in two plus years. I was going to suggest checking my C-Lark album but realized I did not add gen install photo's.

I have a 22lb Bruce type anchor but based on many past posts, video's, and anchoring articles, I suspect the 'best' anchor selection is right up there with choosing the best 'mate', the only common dominator may be using plenty of chain albeit my better-half is of the no-slack belief :lol:
 
BTDT":3ruwdpk5 said:
. (Some clipped)

I suspect the 'best' anchor selection is right up there with choosing the best 'mate', the only common denominator may be using plenty of chain albeit my better-half is of the no-slack belief :lol:
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Laugh of the week! :lol:

Thanks!

Joe :teeth :thup
 
BTDT":19e4mh59 said:
I keep a Honda 2200i on my swim-step in a polished aluminum diamond tread truck box from Tractor Supply (SKU #128240499), mounted on its back with the locking lid up.
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My bad and the 30 minute edit scrooge caught me- FWIW Tractor Supply skew is #109167299 and at about half the price :oops:
 
BTDT,
Glad to read you’re in good humor…when you didn’t show at Hontoon again we all assumed you’d post that “ I THOUGHT about attending, but that gave me a brain tumor with a 6 month prognosis, and the neurosurgeon said that if I thought about it again, it would drop to 1 month.”

Think about attending next year.

On the other hand, maybe you shouldn’t even do that.

Just trailer on down.

PS To beat the 30 min edit rule, just type your missive into Word or any alternative, then after careful editing (which I should do but don’t) just copy and paste it into the ‘message’ box on C-Brats to start the 30 min clock.

Thanks for the link to the Honda box.
Cheers!
John
 
I thought I should give all my C-brat advisors an update on what I am learning. We visited our Tomcat (in 3 pieces) at NMI in Bellingham a week ago. Greg and Michael from NMI, and Gino from Master Marine were very helpful in explaining the boat and options. We made the following decisions:

We went with a Webasto Air Top 2000 diesel heater with air piped to defrost, the berth, the dinette, and front row passengers. There will be a 6 gallon tank with a deck-level fill installed under the cockpit.

We are having a Sonic Hub 2.1 audio/video system installed that will be controlled by the SimRad plotter and can be driven from iPhones through BlueTooth.

Went with a Victron BMV-712 Battery Monitor.

The factory people told us of a problem they have experienced with mounting the counter-rotating engine on the starboard. They said there is a serious loss of control when docking - prop walk issues prevent pulling the stern into the dock. Because of this, they said people have reverted to the conventional arrangement, with the CR engine on the port.

I am still having trouble choosing the right props. The 4 bladed props, as recommended by many of you, have clear advantages, with the only downsides being a small loss of top end, and higher cost. However, it appears that Suzuki doesn’t make a 4 blade CR prop for the 175. I’d appreciate it if someone could tell me which prop manufacturer makes the 4 blade props that are used on your Tomcats.

We hope to have a final boat in a little over a month.

I will try to post some photos of the boat in my gallery.

Thanks again for the help.

Kurt and Bev
 
I have had very good luck on prop fitting and purchase with Ken at PROPGODS on the hull truth forums. Lots of great feedback and really knows his stuff. He is based out of Sarasota FL but I don't recall his phone number, but you can contact him via the hull truth forum

Also Mark at Wefings Marine would be a good source
 
Now this is getting somewhere. Greg is a super good guy & very knowledgeable & was very helpful to me when I first bought my boat. My hats off to him. My boat was set up by Wefings with the cr on the starboard side. As i’ve said before it runs great but responds poorly in reverse. The cr on the starboard side may be the issue. I was told the Suzuki 175 rotation can easily be reversed? I don’t know but that’s what I was told. I’ll have to investigate this as this could fix my only complaint. Keep us updated!
 
Another quick update:

What Shore - it sounds like you are experiencing the problem the factory guys told us about. They told of an instructor who was teaching new owners how to dock their TomCat. The instructor told them there was no way he could teach the owners to dock if he couldn't dock it himself. Could you explain a little more about the problem with backing - does it want to turn to one side but not the other?

I was wrong about the props - Master Marine was able to find a Suzuki counter-rotating prop for the 175. We are going with Suzuki Watergrip 15.25" x 20" props. I will report back on how they work out.
 
I’ll admit I’m not a seasoned captain but have ran & owned several boats thru the years. I wasn’t fortunate enough to spend time on the boat with someone who has ran a TomCat before nor have I been on another TC. The problem I’m having is when you engage the shift levers in opposite directions I feel the boat should start twisting the bow in the opposite direction of the forward engine. (Ex port forward starboard reverse bow should twist in its own length bow moving starboard). This does slowly happen but the reverse propoulsion is weak. This is fine until you have strong wind & current. With both engines on idle or just above the boat will veer in the right direction but not twist. Usually will have to run reverse engine up around 1200 rpms & forward on idle for it to begin to complete with each other. I can make it happen & put it where I want but it just seems it doesn’t happen as easily as it should. Maybe this is how a cat responds I don’t know as like I said I was never on one till I brought it home. Before anyone assume ahh the guy can’t drive lol, I’ve had a couple different friends of mine who make a living as captains on board & they had the same responses. I always assumed it was the props since they were cupped but after reading more I’m not so sure. Please tell me what I’m doing wrong.
 
We usually docked starboard side to, with the counter rotating engine on the starboard side. We didn't have any problems. We come into docks slowly at about 30* to the dock, and swing engines in reverse thrust of the port engine, to bring the boat to starboard--and reverse the port (clockwise engine), a moderate amount --in the 1000 RPM range. If necessary (rare) a little idea forward on the starboard (counter clockwise) engine-

This is not a dramatic as many single engine boats, or inboards. Occasionally more speed or a complete forward/reverse scenario are necessary deeding on wind and current.

The Tom Cat was harder to "Walk" sideways than a conventional twin screw 42 foot boat with 24" props. I believe the increased difficulty to swing the boat's stern rapidly as in a 22 or 25, is because of the "keel effect" of the long straight hard chines of the two hulls of the Tom Cat.

Coming into a starboard side dock, I usually would approach slowly, allowing the vessel to glide, and steering with the engines as rudders. As the boat was close to the dock, I would turn the motors to port (giving thrust to starboard in reverse, and continuing to push the bow toward the dock---a short burst of the port engine (clockwise rotation) would swing the stern in. Part of the problem is that many instantly put the starboard (counter rotating--counter clockwise) in reverse.
But that is my experience with my docking situations. The question I would have is what is the performance under cruising conditions with the engines in the "conventional" position? To me that is more important that the docking. With Suzuki 150's and a light boat we hit just under 50 mph at 6,000 RPM. With the loaded boat we could get in the mid 40's at about 5800 RPM. We often cruised in the low 30's.

The boat looks to be coming along nicely. It is most interesting to see the floor layout for the interior as separate piece--this is also actually the "wing deck" upper part--which is critical in the hulls stability.

Exciting times for Kurt and Bev!
 
Hey Bob, Thanks for the input. I’ve been trying to use just the engines as I have in larger twin screws. It sounds like the cat hull requires you to direct some propulsion with the wheel to counter act the hull. I'll Keep
Playing. I’m pushing 50 mph loaded. A bit over when light. That’s the reason I haven’t changed anything. I cruise around 4000- 4200 usually around 30 mph depending on current. I can’t argue with performance so guess I’ll adapt to its characteristics when docking.
 
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