Your experience, and looking at your 22 " pitch props, tend to suggest that the 22" is good for the 175's. I went back over my posts, and the Tom Cat I Sea Trialed at Wefing's had 16" x 20.5 props. I suspect I had the same on mine. . I did have a set of lower pitch, but never used them. Kept aboard as back ups...
Advice on new TomCat purchase
- Thread starter Photo Op
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cmetzenberg
New member
thataway":7mndbiv9 said:
Hi Bob,
I've always been impressed with the numbers you've gotten out of your tomcat. I've maxed mine out at 38 mph with full tanks. I have 2007 honda 150s with 19" props. Think I should up the pitch?
Regards,
Conrad,
That was about the same I found on Dive Cat when I sea trialed her out of Marina Del Rey. I believe it is the difference between the Suzuki and Honda engines. A friend put a 150 Suzuki on his C Dory 25 and picked up almost 4 mph on the top end.
What is the RPM you get out of your Hondas at WOT? Are they setup with the counter rotating on the Starboard side? Are the props 4 blade SS? Almost all of the owners with Hondas get lower speeds than the Suzuki 150/175's.
That was about the same I found on Dive Cat when I sea trialed her out of Marina Del Rey. I believe it is the difference between the Suzuki and Honda engines. A friend put a 150 Suzuki on his C Dory 25 and picked up almost 4 mph on the top end.
What is the RPM you get out of your Hondas at WOT? Are they setup with the counter rotating on the Starboard side? Are the props 4 blade SS? Almost all of the owners with Hondas get lower speeds than the Suzuki 150/175's.
Gulfcoastjohn
New member
What Shore,
Your experiences with relatively weak reverse thrust and using throttle-only steering around the docks strikes me as normal for the TC255. With any wind or current, add some Forward RPM to the motor ‘outside’ your intended turn. Consider turning the wheel over to max while in neutral PRIOR to engaging the F and R gears; this gets the props ‘aimed’ correctly prior to actually applying power and moving.
Doing a 360 in a TomCats own length with any wind or current is challenging compared to no wind or current, but you’ll get there. There is no substitute for many hours at your own helm for your boating skills with your own boat.
Remember engine exhaust is being blown out the prop hubs, even in Neutral, which subtracts from the power of the engine in R but adds to the power of the engine in F, and you can’t stop that effect unless you shut down the engines.
I empirically feel that I have twice the nuanced helm control in forward vs in reverse, even with 4 blade props. All props work way better in F vs in R.
We have found Bob’s notes above to work very well.
Our wet slip is directly broadside to a typical 12-15k sea breeze when we end our avg boating day at max winds. That is a lot of wind pushing on the cabin. Nothing separates us from the adjacent boat except an end piling. We pivot on that piling in Forward towards a wall of fenders. The rub rail is made to take it. I would never consider ‘backing in’ under those conditions…way too much helm and engine drama.
A 6” Schafer 316SS 2 bolt cleat mounted vertically near the cabin step (like Bob’s album but without the cam cleats) is a great sub for a mid-ship cleat for boat control when docking with a crewmember. He/She/It can secure that first, then fore and aft for total boat control.
Photo Op:
Your pic of the floor/bridgedeck would seem to be a nice place to request the factory install a midship cleat on both sides, but I bet they will decline. All the hull 12v, sensors and binnacle rigging will be hung just under the starboard gunnel horizontal walkway. To adjust the bolts there would require removing the water heater and possibly interfere with the rigging. So install your own cleats as above.
Also, install 12” SS handrails over the eyebrow (so there is no roof core issues) above the stbd waste deck plate and the port water fill deckplate. At any marina, one of these will be on the ‘wrong’ side of your finger pier. I had to hacksaw off some of the bolt length due to the angle heading over toward the cabin, making it difficult to put on a big fender washer and nylon locknut.
Also, one at the aft end of the cabin on both sides, and over the aft door but under the bimini.
Those Brats in their 20’s can ignore all this. In the over-60 group, ‘falls’ are often a life-changing tragedy. (My 55 year old brother is a Physical Therapy Assistant who says to his elderly patients re falls, ‘We don’t use the F-word around here!).
Happy Mods!
John
Your experiences with relatively weak reverse thrust and using throttle-only steering around the docks strikes me as normal for the TC255. With any wind or current, add some Forward RPM to the motor ‘outside’ your intended turn. Consider turning the wheel over to max while in neutral PRIOR to engaging the F and R gears; this gets the props ‘aimed’ correctly prior to actually applying power and moving.
Doing a 360 in a TomCats own length with any wind or current is challenging compared to no wind or current, but you’ll get there. There is no substitute for many hours at your own helm for your boating skills with your own boat.
Remember engine exhaust is being blown out the prop hubs, even in Neutral, which subtracts from the power of the engine in R but adds to the power of the engine in F, and you can’t stop that effect unless you shut down the engines.
I empirically feel that I have twice the nuanced helm control in forward vs in reverse, even with 4 blade props. All props work way better in F vs in R.
We have found Bob’s notes above to work very well.
Our wet slip is directly broadside to a typical 12-15k sea breeze when we end our avg boating day at max winds. That is a lot of wind pushing on the cabin. Nothing separates us from the adjacent boat except an end piling. We pivot on that piling in Forward towards a wall of fenders. The rub rail is made to take it. I would never consider ‘backing in’ under those conditions…way too much helm and engine drama.
A 6” Schafer 316SS 2 bolt cleat mounted vertically near the cabin step (like Bob’s album but without the cam cleats) is a great sub for a mid-ship cleat for boat control when docking with a crewmember. He/She/It can secure that first, then fore and aft for total boat control.
Photo Op:
Your pic of the floor/bridgedeck would seem to be a nice place to request the factory install a midship cleat on both sides, but I bet they will decline. All the hull 12v, sensors and binnacle rigging will be hung just under the starboard gunnel horizontal walkway. To adjust the bolts there would require removing the water heater and possibly interfere with the rigging. So install your own cleats as above.
Also, install 12” SS handrails over the eyebrow (so there is no roof core issues) above the stbd waste deck plate and the port water fill deckplate. At any marina, one of these will be on the ‘wrong’ side of your finger pier. I had to hacksaw off some of the bolt length due to the angle heading over toward the cabin, making it difficult to put on a big fender washer and nylon locknut.
Also, one at the aft end of the cabin on both sides, and over the aft door but under the bimini.
Those Brats in their 20’s can ignore all this. In the over-60 group, ‘falls’ are often a life-changing tragedy. (My 55 year old brother is a Physical Therapy Assistant who says to his elderly patients re falls, ‘We don’t use the F-word around here!).
Happy Mods!
John
cmetzenberg
New member
thataway":mzus7205 said:
I think that's it. You'd think 300hp is 300hp, but i guess not. I'm just shy of 6000 rpm @ wot. yes i have the counter rotating screws to lift the stern. 3 bladed props.
Outboard horsepower varies a lot from the "Stated" by the manufacture HP, if measured at the prop. Some motors are considerably over, and a few are a little under. The props make a huge difference. When "Prop Scan" became available, with very accurate mapping of the profile of the props, and the ability to bring them up to specs, many inboard boats found significant improvement.
For example the Honda 130 vs the Honda 135. There was only a small difference the displacement, but performance was markedly different; the 130 was on the 115 block and the 135 was on the 150 block.
For example the Honda 130 vs the Honda 135. There was only a small difference the displacement, but performance was markedly different; the 130 was on the 115 block and the 135 was on the 150 block.
Hello C-Brat Advisors,
We are going to see our finished Tomcat next week. We are excited but also a little trepidatious about learning the systems and boat operation, and making sure we don’t miss anything on the inspection and check ride. After the manufacturer addresses items on our punch list, Bev and I plan to take the boat on a 3 day / 20 running hour cruise so the first service can be performed by Master Marine before they put it on the Alaska ferry bound for Juneau.
Two thing I haven’t asked about are skiffs and skiff mounting. The boat will have a high arch that will allow an inflatable to be mounted upside down on the roof. However, most inflatables seem to require saddles or some other type of mounting. I have two questions: 1) What is the best skiff for roof mounting on a Tomcat (it needs to be light enough for me to lift it into place by myself), and 2) What is the best way to mount it?
I sure appreciate all the help you have given me to date. It’s made this process much easier.
Thank you,
Kurt
We are going to see our finished Tomcat next week. We are excited but also a little trepidatious about learning the systems and boat operation, and making sure we don’t miss anything on the inspection and check ride. After the manufacturer addresses items on our punch list, Bev and I plan to take the boat on a 3 day / 20 running hour cruise so the first service can be performed by Master Marine before they put it on the Alaska ferry bound for Juneau.
Two thing I haven’t asked about are skiffs and skiff mounting. The boat will have a high arch that will allow an inflatable to be mounted upside down on the roof. However, most inflatables seem to require saddles or some other type of mounting. I have two questions: 1) What is the best skiff for roof mounting on a Tomcat (it needs to be light enough for me to lift it into place by myself), and 2) What is the best way to mount it?
I sure appreciate all the help you have given me to date. It’s made this process much easier.
Thank you,
Kurt
If you are looking to do the lift with body and muscle, (your own), you are going to want to find something out side of the the hard floor, RIB, zone, and maybe even the hard transom. I have used an Alaskan Series, fully inflatable, with a hard air floor for nearly 15 years. It has been a great boat and easy to load, BUT it is somewhat of a pig on ice when it comes to rowing. It will get you there, but you will have to work at it and it has a tendency to wander. It weighed 56 pounds and I single hand almost always. I recently found a "Port-a-Bote" but it is 70 pounds and it is a struggle to get it aloft.
Kayaks are much faster on the water, less stable.
Kaboat is a good option.
If you are going to go with outboard or power for the dingy, then the pointy end, hard transom versions are going to come into play. Note; More weight involved there.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
Kayaks are much faster on the water, less stable.
Kaboat is a good option.
If you are going to go with outboard or power for the dingy, then the pointy end, hard transom versions are going to come into play. Note; More weight involved there.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
Well, we have had our Tomcat since June 2019 and I thought I should report how we ended up outfitting it, in the hope that this information might help other new boat buyers - just as you C-Bratters helped us. I have added photos that show some of the options we chose.
Props: We went with Suzuki Watergrip Stainless Steel 15.25”x20” 4 blade props on our Suzuki 175 HP engines. These are a little underpropped for top speed - it runs into the limiter at around 45 MPH (although it doesn’t hit the limiter with a heavy boat). The props give good grip, acceleration, and fuel economy. We cruise around 30 MPH and get around 2.1 MPG. The manufacturer, Northwest Marine, recommended 3 blade props initially but after trying the 4 blade props on our boat, they said they will recommend 4 blades in the future.
580’ of 1/2” 8-plait line, 50’ of galvanized chain, 22 lb Rocna anchor. This is an excellent setup for the deep anchorages common in SE AK. And yes, there is room in the anchor locker, although it is tight.
Spare anchor: 10 lb Fortress with 300’ of line, 20’ galvanized chain.
Extra cleats in bow corners. These have been very useful for dock lines and anchoring (a harness tied to the bow cleats reduces swing).
Extra cleat in front of windlass (used for tying off the anchor line).
Central eye on transom for towing a skiff
Webasto Air Top 2000 diesel furnace with 3 floor outlets and 3 defrost outlets, 6 gallon deck-fill tank. This, along with the Wallas cooktop/heater, keeps the cabin pretty warm in chilly fall weather. However, the defroster doesn’t keep the windows clear - we have a fan to help with that.
Sonic Hub 2.1 Audio system with 4 speakers (plays iPhone audio wirelessly).
Victron BMV-712 Battery Monitor
Auto Pilot
We raised the radar arch to make room for an inflatable.
After a lot of searching, we bought a WestMarine PHP-310 10’ air floor Inflatable. This just squeezes under the raised radar arch, fits perfectly on the roof, and has a 5 person capacity. It weighs 73 lbs so it can be tough to get on the roof in windy conditions but it seemed like the best compromise among the available options.
Torquedo Travel 1103 CS electric outboard for inflatable - its slow but saves a lot of hassle with handling fuel and mounting a gas outboard. Very quiet.
Fire Extinguisher Holder
Bathroom Caddy
Grab bar in front of passenger seat
Grab bar in head
Honda 2200i Generator carried in a plastic box in the cockpit.
Northwest Marine does quality work and V.P. Michael Millison was great to work with on this boat.
Thanks again to all who helped us out with advice back in 2019. We are very happy with the “ViewFinder” and have used it to find and photograph many beautiful places.
Props: We went with Suzuki Watergrip Stainless Steel 15.25”x20” 4 blade props on our Suzuki 175 HP engines. These are a little underpropped for top speed - it runs into the limiter at around 45 MPH (although it doesn’t hit the limiter with a heavy boat). The props give good grip, acceleration, and fuel economy. We cruise around 30 MPH and get around 2.1 MPG. The manufacturer, Northwest Marine, recommended 3 blade props initially but after trying the 4 blade props on our boat, they said they will recommend 4 blades in the future.
580’ of 1/2” 8-plait line, 50’ of galvanized chain, 22 lb Rocna anchor. This is an excellent setup for the deep anchorages common in SE AK. And yes, there is room in the anchor locker, although it is tight.
Spare anchor: 10 lb Fortress with 300’ of line, 20’ galvanized chain.
Extra cleats in bow corners. These have been very useful for dock lines and anchoring (a harness tied to the bow cleats reduces swing).
Extra cleat in front of windlass (used for tying off the anchor line).
Central eye on transom for towing a skiff
Webasto Air Top 2000 diesel furnace with 3 floor outlets and 3 defrost outlets, 6 gallon deck-fill tank. This, along with the Wallas cooktop/heater, keeps the cabin pretty warm in chilly fall weather. However, the defroster doesn’t keep the windows clear - we have a fan to help with that.
Sonic Hub 2.1 Audio system with 4 speakers (plays iPhone audio wirelessly).
Victron BMV-712 Battery Monitor
Auto Pilot
We raised the radar arch to make room for an inflatable.
After a lot of searching, we bought a WestMarine PHP-310 10’ air floor Inflatable. This just squeezes under the raised radar arch, fits perfectly on the roof, and has a 5 person capacity. It weighs 73 lbs so it can be tough to get on the roof in windy conditions but it seemed like the best compromise among the available options.
Torquedo Travel 1103 CS electric outboard for inflatable - its slow but saves a lot of hassle with handling fuel and mounting a gas outboard. Very quiet.
Fire Extinguisher Holder
Bathroom Caddy
Grab bar in front of passenger seat
Grab bar in head
Honda 2200i Generator carried in a plastic box in the cockpit.
Northwest Marine does quality work and V.P. Michael Millison was great to work with on this boat.
Thanks again to all who helped us out with advice back in 2019. We are very happy with the “ViewFinder” and have used it to find and photograph many beautiful places.
Great upgrades! You can always add the Gerhauer Davit for hoisting the dinghy ours is very similar to yours, and the Davit works very well. Add 12 to 18" to lower post to get good clearance on the cabin top.
Your photography is magnificent! You have to get some Tom Cat photos in there!
For your ultra wide angles are your stitching, panorama, or super wide angle lens?
Great to see some photos of Juneau in the winter. I recognize some of the boats from time we spent up there.
Thanks!
Your photography is magnificent! You have to get some Tom Cat photos in there!
For your ultra wide angles are your stitching, panorama, or super wide angle lens?
Great to see some photos of Juneau in the winter. I recognize some of the boats from time we spent up there.
Thanks!
journey on
New member
Bob, do you have any posted pictures that show how you used a garhauear lift to get the inflatable on the roof? Especially on the 25's you've had.
I'm using a lift (homemade) on the small outboard. I'm having difficulty picturing how one can lift the inflatable high enough to swing it on the top.
We're all getting a little older.
Boris
I'm using a lift (homemade) on the small outboard. I'm having difficulty picturing how one can lift the inflatable high enough to swing it on the top.
We're all getting a little older.
Boris
Hi Boris,
This is a link to my sub album on using the Garhauer davit on 22's 25 and tom cat 255. There are some photos of each of the boats.
Basically I made a HDPE block to follow the deck contour. Drilled and then over drilled and filled with epoxy the bolt holes for the foot piece mounted on side deck. I put the upper mount thru the outer lip of the cabin top overhand. The lower pole is 12" over size, 18" might be better. The arm will not reach the center or the cabin, but that is fine. Once the boat is on the root it is easy to slide over into position.
For the lifting points my boat already had some patch "D" rings--I used those. Ideally I would have put them a little more aft and a little lower. I made a spreade3r bar out of 1" AL sq tubing, cut a dowel (I think it was 5/8", and epoxied it in the center. Put an eye bolt in the center and then eye bolts on the ends, plus carabiners.
I am using the Torpedo, which is light--and breaks down into no part more than 12#.
I also positioned a second place for the davit in the aft Starboard cockpit so I could move the kicker from the transom mount to the dinghy if necessary. We also use this for hoisting things like the freezer aboard. In this case the stand off arm is rail mounted and pivots down to be out of the way when we are not using the davit. If that is confusing after reviewing the photos, I can take more photos in the next few days.
This is a link to my sub album on using the Garhauer davit on 22's 25 and tom cat 255. There are some photos of each of the boats.
Basically I made a HDPE block to follow the deck contour. Drilled and then over drilled and filled with epoxy the bolt holes for the foot piece mounted on side deck. I put the upper mount thru the outer lip of the cabin top overhand. The lower pole is 12" over size, 18" might be better. The arm will not reach the center or the cabin, but that is fine. Once the boat is on the root it is easy to slide over into position.
For the lifting points my boat already had some patch "D" rings--I used those. Ideally I would have put them a little more aft and a little lower. I made a spreade3r bar out of 1" AL sq tubing, cut a dowel (I think it was 5/8", and epoxied it in the center. Put an eye bolt in the center and then eye bolts on the ends, plus carabiners.
I am using the Torpedo, which is light--and breaks down into no part more than 12#.
I also positioned a second place for the davit in the aft Starboard cockpit so I could move the kicker from the transom mount to the dinghy if necessary. We also use this for hoisting things like the freezer aboard. In this case the stand off arm is rail mounted and pivots down to be out of the way when we are not using the davit. If that is confusing after reviewing the photos, I can take more photos in the next few days.
gulfcoast john
New member
Great pics!
How did you fill the water tank or empty your waste tank when your boat was on the wrong side of your finger pier to do that?
I have a rather long wingspan, and yet it is impossible for me to hold on to a roof rail and reach the deck plate with a Davis tool to unscrew those plates. How do you do it?
I installed two handrails on each side, through the roof overhang, so there is no inside intrusions. And another handrail directly over the aft door.
What works best for you?
Best,
John
How did you fill the water tank or empty your waste tank when your boat was on the wrong side of your finger pier to do that?
I have a rather long wingspan, and yet it is impossible for me to hold on to a roof rail and reach the deck plate with a Davis tool to unscrew those plates. How do you do it?
I installed two handrails on each side, through the roof overhang, so there is no inside intrusions. And another handrail directly over the aft door.
What works best for you?
Best,
John
Pacificcoast101
Member
I reach through the window. Much easier.