Advice Sought on Oil Additive for BF150

P

Pat Anderson

New member
Our 2006 Honda BF150 has 2,038 hours on it, 800 of them on the Great Loop in 2017 alone. When we had the motor serviced after returning from the Loop, Pete said there was evidence of blow-by, which is combustion products getting past the rings. He recommended we add Techron to our gas to clean the engine as much as possible and change oil every 50 hours, and we have been doing that.

Right now the tank is full of non-ethanol fuel with Techron and Stabil 360. Of course, we don't know when or where we will be able to boat this year, but when we went to Costco where we had been buying six packs of 16 oz. bottles of Techron for about $15, we learned Costco no longer carries it. When we looked online, we discovered that nobody was selling the six packs, only individual 12 oz. bottles, at up to $10 a bottle.

We might find a substitute for Techron that costs less, but so far no joy. So I started looking at oil additives to address blow-by. A lot of products say they reduce blow-by, and a number of sites recommended Rislone 4416. I did not want to add something to my oil until I knew it would do no harm, so I called Pete at West Coast Marine. Pete said he did not think I should be adding an oil additive.

So, what advice do you have for me?

 
Pat Anderson":2jtumff0 said:
Our 2006 Honda BF150 has 2,038 hours on it, 800 of them on the Great Loop in 2017 alone. When we had the motor serviced after returning from the Loop, Pete said there was evidence of blow-by, which is combustion products getting past the rings. He recommended we add Techron to our gas to clean the engine as much as possible and change oil every 50 hours, and we have been doing that.

Right now the tank is full of non-ethanol fuel with Techron and Stabil 360. Of course, we don't know when or where we will be able to boat this year, but when we went to Costco where we had been buying six packs of 16 oz. bottles of Techron for about $15, we learned Costco no longer carries it. When we looked online, we discovered that nobody was selling the six packs, only individual 12 oz. bottles, at up to $10 a bottle.

We might find a substitute for Techron that costs less, but so far no joy. So I started looking at oil additives to address blow-by. A lot of products say they reduce blow-by, and a number of sites recommended Rislone 4416. I did not want to add something to my oil until I knew it would do no harm, so I called Pete at West Coast Marine. Pete said he did not think I should be adding an oil additive.

So, what advice do you have for me?
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I use Sea Foam. available at most auto parts stores $10.00 or so for 16 oz. In fuel & crank case :thup
 
If I understand the situation correctly, your mechanic suggested something to clean the engine, but not something that would stop the blow by. That being the case, I also would recommend just adding seafoam. Other than that, the only other thing I'd recommend is running Stable in your gas if it sits for a relatively long time without use. Colby
 
Blow by is usually due to rings/piston walls which are worn. I can see adding some thing like "Sea Foam" to a cylinder which is sitting and frozen up rings, to increase compression....but in fuel?

MSDS shows "hydrocarbon blend" (Probably some lite oils) and Isopropanol. Nothing really magic there....

I have thrown some in my fuel a few times (Probably to make me feel good that I did "something") But as to really reducing your blow by? Probably not.

Yahama recommends "Ring Free"..is not a lot better. Less than 0.50% of secret ingredients...Mostly (70 to 90%) "Base oils". Very small mounts of other organics. These are burned as the fuel detonates. May help with fuel system...but does it really free stuck rings, or seal worn rings?

2000 hours is mighty impressive, especially since Pat's boat is not run every day--as many of the high engine hour boats are. But I also know that Pat rarely pushes his engine, and most of these hours are at low RPM.
 
Hi Pat,

We really enjoyed reading your 'loop' adventure blog!

FWIW- I was the head of warranty for a very high end RV manufacturer that used Detroit Diesel, Caterpillar and Cummins engines. None of the manufacturing engineers recommended additives and in fact discouraged their use in any type of engine. I also worked closely with Mobil 1 engineers and they too discouraged use of additives. I do not use additives in my twin Honda 150's and they are approaching 3000 hours. Both engines are still running good and to be perfectly honest I don't care if there is a little blow-by, nor have I taken the time to check for it.

My plan is to run them until I start having problems and than replace one, or both, rather than chasing problems with $$$$.

PS I have used Seafoam in my fuel but not for repairing worn parts or mechanical issues
 
BTDT":2ay6t0pf said:
PS I have used Seafoam in my fuel but not for repairing worn parts or mechanical issues
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Or just freeing up stuck (carboned up) oil rings from too much idling low load time & not enough WOT with load time.
Yamaha Ring free is also good :thup
 
Yamaha Ring Free has been redone and now includes fuel stabilizer. It is good for "cleaning" the system and will darken your oil, making it appear that it needs to be changed at much shorter intervals.

AS to fuel additives. Pay attention to what fuel you burn. Cheap gas does not burn clean. Burning good quality gas, (Chevron with Techron for instance), will not carbon up your insides and foul up your plugs like Safeway or Costco gas will. I just heard this lecture (to a customer at the auto mechanics today) when I was in to have my pickup service done.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

JC_Lately_SleepyC_Flat_Blue_070.thumb.jpg
 
I like Sea Foam and use it in most things.
Ring free is awesome and a little goes a long way..
So when a quart cost you as much as about 10-12 pints of good beer...don't be surprised. But, it will out last the pints!
 
From a mechanic and a friend of mine"

Use Sea Foam --- in lots of places. It makes you feel good and it won't harm anything. Of course, it doesn't really do any good either BUT, it does make you feel good, and it helps the guy who sold it to you, and the guy who sold it to him. 8)

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

IMGP3205.thumb.jpg
 
Burning good quality gas, (Chevron with Techron for instance), will not carbon up your insides and foul up your plugs like Safeway or Costco gas will. I just heard this lecture
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The basic gasoline of the same octane, comes from the refinery. That arrives at the depot in bulk. After the tanker truck is nearly filled, the additives are put into the tank. (At least that was --and still is in at least at one tank farm) in our area.

The brand of gas only deals with the additives. The "Top Tier" standard was established in 2004. AAA had some studies done, which shows that gas with the additives burns cleaner and less fouling than non "standard" additives. But if you have the fouling, and then burn "Top Tier" certified, it will clean up the valves etc..

Will any of this help Pat's blow by? I personally don't think so, but it is certainly possible. How do we measure Pat's blow by? :o
 
Well, first of all, blowby in the engines I've had comes from worn rings/pistons. No chemical that one can add to gas or oil is going to cure that, wear is wear. One can use a thicker oil, but then that offers it's own problem. And, by the way, does it burn oil?


One can check blowby through a leak test. The cylinder is pressurized and the rate of leakage is measured. Or one can get cranking pressure and then see how it leaks down. Since the Honda 150 is just a Honda car engine turned sideways, i would assume that any competent mechanic can do that.

Honda outboard engines typically don't wear out. If one follows the reports on this site, other failures typically trash the engine first: support bearing for keeping the crank up (and upright), broken drive shafts, broken lower ends, etc. None of those problems are directly due to engine wear. For instance Journey On has the same engine as pat's boat and I'm having the lower end seals replaced. However the engine runs well. And remember, Honda cars are good for 200,000 miles.

So, in summary, Pat should find something else to worry about. Or have the engine tested.

Boris
 
There are two tests to measure the compression in the cylinder of the engine. They seem the same, but are slightly different in what they tell.

Both tests should be done after the engine is warmed up. Both have spark plugs removed.

The compression test:
Put a pressure gauge on the cylinder to be tested. Crank the engine over 3 or 4 times using the starter and read the compression. The cylinders should be within 10% of each other and close to factory specs. If low, then oil is added to the low cylinder and cranked again, to see if adding the oil increased the compression (wet leak down test)--to check for worn rings (or other primary cylinder issues).

The Leak Down test:

There are two gauges. One is the air pressure gauge, and the other in series, is the leak down gauge (more sensetive).
The gauge calibrated to 100 PSI from the air compressor source, and the leak down gauge is at full pressure. The engine is brought to top dead center (If not the engine will turnover) and the amount of loss of compression is observed. The leak may be thru the exhaust, intake valve (valves) or blobby the pistons. You can determine where the air is leaking.

The compression test might show low in cylinders due to a low battery, or a bad starter, corrosion in the electrical system etc...

Perhaps Pat's mechanic did a compression test. Borris's (and others) point that you cannot not really do anything about it, unless you want to rebuild the engine.

Pat if you want to do the loop again, get a new engine. If not, run this one until it fails, or until you are uncomfortable worrying about it failing...and keep the kicker in the best of condition or Tow Boat insurance paid up.
 
thataway":1in6t9k0 said:
There are two tests to measure the compression in the cylinder of the engine. They seem the same, but are slightly different in what they tell.

Both tests should be done after the engine is warmed up. Both have spark plugs removed.

The compression test:
Put a pressure gauge on the cylinder to be tested. Crank the engine over 3 or 4 times using the starter and read the compression. The cylinders should be within 10% of each other and close to factory specs. If low, then oil is added to the low cylinder and cranked again, to see if adding the oil increased the compression (wet leak down test)--to check for worn rings (or other primary cylinder issues).

The Leak Down test:

There are two gauges. One is the air pressure gauge, and the other in series, is the leak down gauge (more sensetive).
The gauge calibrated to 100 PSI from the air compressor source, and the leak down gauge is at full pressure. The engine is brought to top dead center (If not the engine will turnover) and the amount of loss of compression is observed. The leak may be thru the exhaust, intake valve (valves) or blobby the pistons. You can determine where the air is leaking.

The compression test might show low in cylinders due to a low battery, or a bad starter, corrosion in the electrical system etc...

Perhaps Pat's mechanic did a compression test. Borris's (and others) point that you cannot not really do anything about it, unless you want to rebuild the engine.

Pat if you want to do the loop again, get a new engine. If not, run this one until it fails, or until you are uncomfortable worrying about it failing...and keep the kicker in the best of condition or Tow Boat insurance paid up.
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On the compression test all plugs removed, plug wires grounded, throttle held at wide open(if air can't get in you can't compress it) :thup
 
smckean (Tosca)":2bvxezz6 said:
Pat,
Check out "Project Farm" on Youtube. This guy does all kinds of tests on motor oil and additives and many other things. You might find something useful:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2rzsm ... -wuOg_p0Ng

P.S. He seems like a great guy and is certainly very knowledgeable. His testing techniques are clever in themselves.
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Thanks, Sandy (and all!). That is indeed a great site. One of his videos was a test of Liqui Moly Cera Tec, which is one of the oil additives I was looking at before i posted my question. Here is the description from Amazon:

Product description
CERA TEC is a high-tech ceramic wear protection product for all motor oils. CERA TEC reduces friction and wear due to ceramic compounds that withstand extremely high chemical and thermal loads. Prevents direct metal-to-metal contact, thus increasing the engine service life. The low-friction effect reduces fuel consumption in gasoline and diesel engines. CERA TEC provides wear protection for engines, transmissions, pumps and compressors. CERA TEC should be added to the oil and is self-mixing. Sufficient for 5 liters of motor oil. Provides protection up to 50,000 km. Not suitable for use with wet clutches.

Here is the Project Farm video on this product. Results were "mixed." Not "snake oil." The conclusions are at about 8 minutes and 50 seconds into the video. It did reduce friction, but did not fill in microscopic irregularities, at least according to a compression test. Reducing friction would be good, no? Would that increase service life? I don't see that it could do any harm (except to my wallet), does anyone else?
 
Rislone Ring Seal was another product I looked at. Any downside to trying this? Again, I don't want to do any harm, but I am willing to try whatever MIGHT do some good to postpone the inevitable re-power!

Boris, I am not aware that we have been burning oil, but changing at 50 hours, that could be. I suppose I should check the oil level every time we go out now.
 
BTDT, and Dr. Bob, I know I am probably just farting in the wind, and should get the most out of our BF150 until it dies, but the thought of the cost of a re-power, which did not make my blood curdle in 2019, suddenly seems extremely depressing at this point in 2020!
 
I add Marvel Mystery oil to the fuel as well as Stabil. The Marvel gives slight upper end lube while keeping an oil film on the aluminum surfaces to minimize oxidation from moisture in the fuel. In addition, I use ethanol free fuel. So far it has worked well for me for many years on our 4 stroke motors. Some of the ethanol problems did not impact 2 stroke motors , I think, because of the oil film in the fuel, and larger ports in the carb jets. Ron
 
Pat not much to lose, except a few bucks. Would it prolong the life of an engine with over 2000 hours? There is absolutely no way to know.

Have you done a compression test?--very simple and easy to do. Then you will have a baseline.

If you change oil at every 50 hours, that would be unusual. The owner's manual calls for every 100 hours, and several of us felt that you be fine every 200 hours considering that you rarely ran the engine under high low. ((Mostly displacement speeds). Some gauge oil changes by fuel used rather than tachometer hours.

You have lived thru the period when that engine would have failed due to thrust bearing failure--and it may be because you have rarely really loaded the engine up.
 
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