"Agreed" Cash Value

T

tom&shan

New member
I'm starting a new topic from my previous one on Boat Insurance. Looking to get my boat insured for its Actual Cash Value - as I mentioned in the other forum - BoatUS will only insure my boat up to 5k, which they state is the maximum they can insure a 1990 16 Angler for.

Also, I just got this email from their boat valuation folks :
" ...Published values notwithstanding, we would anticipate a value, w/ motor, in the $3,000 - $3,500 range (add for trailer if applicable), ... The value estimate above is based on research and experience of BoatU.S. staff..."

Thoughts ??
 
You may have to check with other insurance companies. I had an old 1982, non-C-Dory boat insured for three times that amount. I do not think they know what a CD-16 is. You would never be able to buy boat, motor, and trailer for that figure.

Many insurance companies go by "replacement cost", which means, I think, that all they have to do is find a comparable boat either buy it and give it to you, or pay you the amount that would buy it.

Keep trying other avenues. Someone on this site ought to be able to help!

John
 
A.C.V is really Agreed Cash Value. It's a value that both you and the insurance company agree is the amount you'll get if you lose the boat. In some cases, it doesn't take any argument, they'll give you a reasonable amount of insurance (of course you've gotta pay for it), in other cases, you'd have to show that a boat like yours has sold for something near the Agreed amount.

Keep trying, you'll find someone...

Charlie
 
I don't know if it would do any good, but from the Market Place Reference Forum you could contact a bunch of owners and somehow document what real boats actually sold for.
 
I guess my "real" question to the group is how do we validate the cash value of a C-Dory - and I'm stating cash value - since most will quickly point out that for C-Dory folks the value has nothing to do with cash, but how do you (i.e. for insurance) come up with a cash value for a boat, when groups like BoatUS give such a "low" value.
 
I agree with David. Show them some real numbers and what you paid. They have to believe that if proven. I don't blame them for being cautious, if they'd insure it for anything, I'd insure mine for $500,000 and find the deepest spot in the bay....

While you are at it, look for some of that new life insurance, where they give you the money now and you pass on, your kids have to pay it back... :shock: :lol: .. You'll find that they take real good care of you after that...

Charlie
 
I meant to say Agreed Value. God forbid I'd pay these huge premiums for ACV. Allstate had my ACV pegged at a fraction of what Adeline could fetch on the market. Well under $10,000 as I recall, including trailer.
 
The "problem" is that Boat U S (and some other insurers) use NADA for the value. That is the "research" that they do. There are other book marks for used boats from brokers reported sales, but since so few used C Dories sell thru brokers, there are few reports. The NADA"Value" of a 1990 basic 16 C dory is low at $2150 and high at $2400. The "value" of a 1992 Honda45 hp is: $560/$630. A 1990 trailer is worth $150/$170.--so that max that NADA gives for a boat motor and trailer is $3300. (without any accessories).

The reality, looking at the for sale and market is that these boats sell for closer to 3 times that @ $10,000. You can take these ads and the market analysis to the insurance company--but I suspect that Boat US will not back down.

You may have to pay a bit more with an agreed value policy and that is where a good insurance agent will help you immensely.
 
I insured several boats through Boat US. Never had a claim,but always had to get arider to extend coverage when we left the Chesapeake area. Not real expensive but 60.to 100. for each trip.

When we purchased the C-Dory two years age their quote was actually higher than on my previous boat insured for almost double the amount. When I asked Boat US what goes I got the story that all insurers raised rated because of hurricanes. I called a local agent of Erie insurance and got coverage for the entire US East coast. The price 1/2 of the Boat US. I have not had any claim, but, Erie has a good reputation and I feel good about my coverage.

I have an agreeded value policy that covers boat motor and trailer for the price I paid for them including electronics. I have not tried to increase the policy to cover todays replacement cost.

Fred W Messerly - Red Lion, Pa.
 
I dont under stand this rider thing. You have to pay more for your trailerable boat if you go some place different? My boat is fully covered no matter whre in the world I take it. U.S. B.C. or Mexico. Progressive does not care where I wreck it . We have had two claims I the last year, both for thief, and we wheeere payed in days not weeks for the full valve of the items taken except the fishing rods.
 
starcrafttom":3khqhkqy said:
I dont under stand this rider thing. You have to pay more for your trailerable boat if you go some place different? My boat is fully covered no matter whre in the world I take it. U.S. B.C. or Mexico. Progressive does not care where I wreck it . We have had two claims I the last year, both for thief, and we wheeere payed in days not weeks for the full valve of the items taken except the fishing rods.
Click to expand...

My last boat was rated for the Chesapeake only because it was
considerably cheaper that way. We got an extension to cover a
good part of the Delaware River since we are close to it. Below a
certain point, and we needed a rider.

As for C-Dory insurance: you probably want a Boat/US "Yacht Policy"
if you are going to use Boat/US.

This what they call their agreed upon value policies. As far as I
know, they are a completely different product than their standard
trailerboat policies. In these policies, you state the value of the
boat, property on the boat, etc, and they quote you a price. We did
not have any trouble getting an agreed upon value policy for our
boat - at what we paid for the boat. PM me if would like more
details.

As for NADA and Boat/US: they probably do use NADA for their
standard policies. But, they do have a group that does boat
evaluations and they do not rely on NADA - at least not for a
C-Dory. The quote I received from them for a TC24 was pretty
much correct, and there aren't many boats as unique as a TC24!

Mike
 
Mike makes an interesting point--and it confirms something I have noted with the NADA and C dory--that the newer boats are farily good on the value listing: For example the 2004 (newist I found) Tom Cat 24 is listed at $33,700/$38,500 for the boat, Two Yahama's 115 $11,000 to $12,500 and trailer at $2,600/$3,000. For the boat's accessories, they are standard and add about $4,000 to the value (but no way to determining the Wallas stove)--so a 2004 Tom Cat would have a NADA high of
$ 58,000--which is not too far off the value.

However NADA looses it on the older boats which hold their value much better than most other boats.

The other interesting point is limits of the policy--When I was on the West coast my boats had specific limits along the West coast (non trailerable boats). With Progressive charging about 1/3 for a boat home ported on the West Coast of what one in Florida is charged--I wonder what would happen if the West Coast boat were trailered to Florida and damaged during hurricane season?
 
thataway":1zobyf7v said:
Mike makes an interesting point--and it confirms something I have noted with the NADA and C dory--that the newer boats are farily good on the value listing:


However NADA looses it on the older boats which hold their value much better than most other boats.
Click to expand...

I have no evidence of this, but I suspect the reason that the above is true is that NADA does little or no research on the real sale prices of used boats, but basically follows the pattern of the Kelley Blue Book for vehicles where they start with the cost of a new vehicle, deduct a percentage for the first year's loss, and then take 7% off each year.

The depreciation percentages may differ on boats, but the pattern looks the same and explains why the numbers are so far off.

Like a car, after about 14 years or so, the year model makes little difference and the value is totally determined by the condition of the vehicle, or in this case the boat.

Fortunately, C-Dorys are indestructible and always restorable and capable of being repowered, hence their REAL resale value.

Using the low numbers provided by NADA also serves the insurance companies well, keeping the insured values down unless you go to an agreed value, in which case you pay your own way into more insurance.

Joe.
 
Folks...you are all on target. There is nothing special about our electronics, our trailers, our motors, or our "other equipment and accessories" that we have on our C-DORY HULLS.

Our C-DORY hulls are what makes "us"...or "our" INVESTMENTS worth more than the "industry standards"... My investment in the C-Dory Cruiser boat motor and trailer did much better than ANY of my friends who were playing with stocks. Yes, I had the last laugh as we enjoyed a round or two...and talked about "the market".

Right now, I have some more work to do with USAA on the agreed value on my 84 year model, one of fourteen hulls built. Now, understand, it was the last one built. Today, just the hull portion on my insurance is listed as $3,600. Now, those of you who have been following my "retro-work", know I have WAY more in this retro work, not to mention what I actually paid for the hull to get it.

USAA wants me to get a commercial survey done, and us go back to the table with an agreed value...and adjust the coverage. Now...just what will that professional surveyor use as his guide??

Well... I do not know... and lets just hope nothing happens to my little C-Byrd. She is worth a "boat load" more to me than the total value for sure.
 
BUC doesn't make it values available for free to consumers as does NADA, so testing them out isn't as readily available.

However, most public libraries have copies of NADA, BUC, and for cars and RV's, the Kelley Blue Book available for your perusal.

I seem to remember the BUC values for C-Dorys being low, though.

When I went motorhome shopping several years ago, I bought the Kelley Blue Book for RV's so I'd have that reference handy.

Interestingly, the NADA boat values given to consumers on line show average and low retail values, and note that the values for boats in excellent shape can exceed the quoted average and low values by quite a bit. I wonder if the information available to professionals shows these higher values or if they're worked into the middle and lower average figures.

One problem these services have to deal with is that almost everyone with a boat to sell thinks it's in absolutely excellent condition and should command top dollar figures, hence perhaps the reluctance to publish high average values, as they would make the seller expect those high figures on the trade-in or sale of his boat, complicating the dealer's negotiation proceedings.

Fortunately, most boat dealers are somewhat easier to deal with and more ethical than car dealers. (Am I going to regret making this statement???)

Joe.
 
I use paul at travelers its insured for offshore (in case i take it tuna or butt fishing). agreed value 25k and 3,500$ tackle replacement ect. my boat is a 1989, it took a phone call. I got his contact off all the tuna guys at bloody decks. It was very easy to set up.
 
Morning all,

I have my 1993 19 Angler insured through State Farm. Much better rate than Boat US. I had to get a survey to get a loan from my credit union and State Farm used that survey as the "Agreed Value". Which was, by the way, $3,000 more than what I paid for the boat.

The survey was well worth the money. Not sure what he based the value on.
 
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