All I want for Christmas is a new engine...

G

gstraub

Member
So a few months ago my wife and I were out in our C-22 with a Honda BF90D. Noticed something different about the feel but just thought I had some growth on the bottom. On the way home, it started to run rough and I started to worry about getting home. After we got home, I pulled the cowl and didn't see anything odd, but when I pulled the oil dipstick...classic milkshake! Anyway, a local independent mechanic pulled the head and said the head gasket was intact and he was having a hard time finding where the water came in from, but there was lots of corrosion inside. He said he could probably get it running again, but he wouldn't guarantee anything.

So, I need to re-power. Going to think about single or twins, and have read several discussions about that, and also what brand. I'm guessing that any of the major brands of motors are going to be fine, but open to any comments or experiences.
 
After cruising with Hunky Dory last summer in Alaska I would choose twin 60's. Plenty of HP while loaded heavy. Run on a single for best fuel economy. Only use hours on one motor when at displacement. A single motor should troll plenty slow enough for fishing. The down side would be more cost to install and maintain. This is coming from someone who has a single 140 HP on a 22.
 
I have chosen engines based on price and availability of service. All of the engines are good, and all have occasionally had issues. I cannot agree with HunkyDory's argument about the twin 60's and If I were doing what Jay does, I would go that way.

Look at weights also. There is the issue of re-rigging if you change brands. Recently some of the larger motors have been hard to get. That seems to be easing some.

Was your engine flushed after every use? Milky oil, with intact heads (no cracks or bad gasket) becomes far more serious. Hondas do seem to have a bit more susceptibility to corrosion in salt water, However there are some who get thousands of hours out of the Hondas in commercial use.
 
The boat was normally in the water at our dock and would go out often for short runs, so it wasn't flushed after every use, but usually at least once a week. However, the boat was a boat that was donated to a museum and had been sitting in a slip for at least four years before they got it, so I do not know the history, and I bought it knowing this was a risk, but the price was right! In fact, I bought it with a bottom full of barnacles and not knowing if the engine would even start, so I knew that re-powering was a distinct possibility. Pay now or pay later, right?!

Anyway, I got a couple of years out of it, and I'm not complaining, just trying to decide what to do. I know of another Honda that had a similar issue and the mechanic that looked at it was trying to steer me away from another Honda, which is one of the reasons for my post. I've had good luck with smaller Hondas that I have had and I know they generally have a good reputation, so not sure what I'll do yet. It will probably come down to price and what one of the local shops have available.
 
Our 2004 Honda 90HP had relatively low hours, but was starting to have some corrosion issues. We did not want to have problems while cruising hundreds of miles from home, so we decided to repower while we could still get something for the Honda on trade. While another Honda would probably have worked well, I was not fond of our local Honda dealer and instead went with a Yamaha F90 on our 22 cruiser. I love this motor. It has all the power we could ever use even when loaded heavy for Cruising trips of up to 3 weeks. It is quieter than the old Honda, has noticeably more power and gets better fuel economy as well as a bigger alternator that recharges batteries faster. We actually use this motor for trolling for Salmon, as it is even quieter than our 8HP Honda kicker. The Yamaha is also really easy to service compared to the old Honda. There are lots of good motors on the market, but I can give the Yamaha a big thumbs up.
 
If you get another Honda you can probably use the same rigging, controls, and instruments. Could save some $$.

Might try the BF100.
 
Gerhard,
There is a Honda dealer/repair facility in Yorktown, VA, that is absolutely the best of the best. They only work on Honda outboards and are truly the best experts on the East Coast of the USA.
I would recommend taking your boat to them. They will troubleshoot and provide the best information about repair or replacement. I do my own maintenance and overhaul lots of smaller outboards for a hobby. I was really concerned about reaching out to someone for advice, when I had serious problems with my 200 HP. They helped me do basic troubleshooting on the phone, then when things looks more serious, they had the boat at their shop for less than 2 hours and had all of the questions answered.
I had to purchase a new outboard, but was out the door in less than 3 days, for under $14000, for a 225 HP, including their troubleshooting of the old outboard and the installation of the new one.
If this sparked your interest, give Atlantic Marine a call at 804-815-2666.
www.atlanticmarineva.com
PS, they have worked on many happy C-Brats boats and all rave about their work and fair cost.
 
Unless Honda has made some changes to the internal cooling passages or whatever is going on with the issues of compromise in motor corrosion, I agree with Doug to consider Yamaha over a Honda 90 in replacement. Another consideration would be to go with Suzuki in that you would avoid timing belt maintenance because it has a timing chain. I have a Yamaha 40 on my aluminum bay boat and think Yamaha as a great motor. Rigging, controls, and instruments as mentioned are a consideration with the total cost of a motor change. Local dealership service is another concern.
 
Just a comment that no outboard is immune from corrosion and salt passage build up. I bought a 16' bay boat when I first moved to Pensacola powered with a 90 hp Yamaha. It had corrosion and water passage issues due to not being properly flushed after each use in salt water. If you are using the boat every day, such as on a cruise--not an issue. But if you only run the boat occasionally, it is an issue. We had to clean the passages, and I used a rigorous program of flushing after each use. Even when I was running almost every day in the Keys, I flushed the 140 Suzuki on the Caracal Cat daily.
 
Thanks for all the comments, and thanks for the lead on the place in Yorktown, Steve. I'm going to get through the holidays and then proceed on this one way or another. As for flushing, I'll certainly be more diligent about that, but I think this issue started well before I got the boat. Just frustrating to see it sitting in the yard on the trailer!
 
I repowered my boat 3 weeks ago with new Honda 2022 twin 40's. Each motor was $6500 rigging was $3000 with all the latest Honda controls (2022) NEMA 2000 network. Total cost with tax came to $17,000. I did the install myself. It's like a new boat now and burns 1/3 less fuel than the old carb 40's that were 23 years old and are way quieter too.
 
I repowered my 19 with another E-Tec 90 2 years ago. I got a left over 19 model that was discounted to $9,300 that included all installation costs. I didn't have to do the 3 yr. service on my old motor ($1,000) and didn't have to repair the motor tilt trim that was going bad ($1,500) and they still gave me 1,400 trade in bringing my cost down to $5,400. Then I was able to use my old controls, saving me another 1,000 or more, now down to $4,400. Now my new motor came with a 3 yr warranty. If I had kept my old motor, I'm pretty sure that I would of had at least 1 break down in the next 3 years that's another $2,000 possibly a lot more. I usually put over a 100 hrs. per year on the motor. That brings my cost for a new motor down to about $2,400, at least that's what I told my wife. Note they quit making E Tec motors in 2020, so that's why it was discounted so much.
 
ssobol":3kx7qpzr said:
If you get another Honda you can probably use the same rigging, controls, and instruments. Could save some $$.
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That's what I was thinking. I was wrong. :cry:
We ordered new Honda 150s last year. They finally arrived eleven months later. We hauled our boat out to swap out the old motors, but it's taken a lot longer than expected. It's been in the boatyard for two months.
After finally getting around to our boat, the mechanic found that the new motors didn't accept the wire harnesses from the old motors. After the new harnesses arrived, they discovered the old gauges didn't have the correct connections for the new harnesses. After swapping out gauges for a new HD-4 gauge, the small adapter on the new motors was incorrect. We've been waiting for two weeks for a one inch part to arrive. In the meantime, we missed two months of nice ocean conditions. Today is our first winter storm. The ocean is a mess, but we still don't know when we will get our boat back home.
 
-Waypoint-":2pupdyhw said:
I repowered my boat 3 weeks ago with new Honda 2022 twin 40's. Each motor was $6500 rigging was $3000 with all the latest Honda controls (2022) NEMA 2000 network. Total cost with tax came to $17,000. I did the install myself. It's like a new boat now and burns 1/3 less fuel than the old carb 40's that were 23 years old and are way quieter too.
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That's a lot of money - almost as much as paid for my boat years ago.
 
I don't know what lead times are on engines right now but I suspect there may still be supply chain issues. I ordered two engines last year in January and it took until late may for the first one to be delivered and mid August for the second one. So I'd suggest to check immediately to see what the lead times are running and order appropriately. Because if lead times are as long now as last year, you need to order now to have it in time for the coming season.
 
I got lucky finding my Honda 40s. Otherwise they had a 6-month waiting list from Japan for Hondas. I thought the install was going to be plug and play with basically the same motors. Not after 24 years have passed! EVERYTHING has to be changed out with repowering an old boat. One advantage of doing the work yourself, is that the parts arrive at the house faster! Still cheaper to repower than buying a new C-Dory.
 
rogerbum":2qki2way said:
I don't know what lead times are on engines right now but I suspect there may still be supply chain issues. I ordered two engines last year in January and it took until late may for the first one to be delivered and mid August for the second one. So I'd suggest to check immediately to see what the lead times are running and order appropriately. Because if lead times are as long now as last year, you need to order now to have it in time for the coming season.
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Commenting on two issues already brought up, and a n additional suggestion. I repowered to a Honda 100 from a more than 20 yo Honda 90. The older motor worked fine, but so many hours I didn’t trust it for long trips any more. Wow, am I ever pleased, particularly the increase in nmpg, both at hull speed and on step.

First, you might need a considerable lead time, both to get the motors and to have them installed. Don’t wait until Spring if you intend to use it this summer. I had to wait six months, ordering in summer, with installation in January last year. Also, prices have gone up considerably, and I don’t think they are coming down in the future.

Second, they did use some of the steering hardware, and existing bolt holes, but replaced all of the electrical (should be done anyway) and the throttle and cables (also should be replaced). Not sure how much would be saved by using same motor brand, but I think not much.

Third, Consider having a quick connect from the gas tanks to the motor. Then you can use external tanks that are easy to empty. Fill the regular tanks for longer trips. Just unhook the connect and you can run the system dry, though I’m told this isn’t important for the fuel injected motor. I have always run all of the gas out of carbureted motors (generators, chain saws, lawn mowers, trimmers, outboards),, 2 and 4 stroke, and have had few issues with long-term reliability. When I finish a trip and don’t plan to use the next few days, and ever month or so when using, I “finish” running the motor with synthetic, ethanol-free fuel.

Don’t know if this is going to make a difference with the Honda 100, but I’m now a person of habits, and doing this has served me well for a long time now.
 
Poor motor availability & wait time on some makes was already happening pre Covid, when we repowered from the twin Honda 40’s to 60’s in the summer of 2019. Even then it was a very expensive decision. All the controls & gauges had to be replaced & at that time, I chose cheap analog gauges, knowing at a future time, when also upgrading my auto pilot, electronic chart plotter & radio, I would be adding a nmea 2000 network, which I would do myself. The cost of motors, including dual controls, analog gauges & installation was $16756. Later it was another approximately $1300 to add the Honda HD-4 gauges & nmea 2000 network, so over $18,000 total.

Jay
 
Thanks for all the additional info. The lead time issue was not something that even crossed my mind. I'll take everything mentioned into account and do some more research and try to get this moving immediately after Christmas.
 
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