American Exceptionalism
- Thread starter Barry Rietz
- Start date
How cool. WOW 50+ mph on a "sail boat". DO NOT FALL OFF!!!
When I was on San Franscisco Bay with the Delta Extravaganza cruise this Spring we got to watch the "half size" of these boats practicing and racing there. They were 45 feet and faster than my C-Dory :roll: not so :shock: but increadible to watch. I have added some pix of them in my "Other Boats We Have Seen" album, in a sub-album (That I cannot seem to change the title from "Untitled" to SF Bay Americas Cup Training 4/20.) Anyway, take a look there and see some of the pix of that action. It will be on this page, behind the photo of the SleepyC under the Golden Gate.
Americas Cup Practise Races
Take a peek, and hope this works,
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
When I was on San Franscisco Bay with the Delta Extravaganza cruise this Spring we got to watch the "half size" of these boats practicing and racing there. They were 45 feet and faster than my C-Dory :roll: not so :shock: but increadible to watch. I have added some pix of them in my "Other Boats We Have Seen" album, in a sub-album (That I cannot seem to change the title from "Untitled" to SF Bay Americas Cup Training 4/20.) Anyway, take a look there and see some of the pix of that action. It will be on this page, behind the photo of the SleepyC under the Golden Gate.
Americas Cup Practise Races
Take a peek, and hope this works,
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
hardee":365l8vsg said:How cool. WOW 50+ mph on a "sail boat". DO NOT FALL OFF!!!
When I was on San Franscisco Bay with the Delta Extravaganza cruise this Spring we got to watch the "half size" of these boats practicing and racing there. They were 45 feet and faster than my C-Dory :roll: not so :shock: but increadible to watch. I have added some pix of them in my "Other Boats We Have Seen" album, in a sub-album (That I cannot seem to change the title from "Untitled" to SF Bay Americas Cup Training 4/20.) Anyway, take a look there and see some of the pix of that action. It will be on this page, behind the photo of the SleepyC under the Golden Gate.
Americas Cup Practise Races
Take a peek, and hope this works,
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
Harvey those 45' cats are not involved with the current generation of America's cup boat. They are "Sail GP" There are 3 of the boats in Sail GP which are converted America's Cup boats from 2017, There is no resumblance to the AC 75 such as "Patriot" which is a monohull foiling 75 foot boat.
The only American's cup boats that have sailed in the US during the last year were the half scale "mule" which and the first generation AC boat from New York YC named. These did trail runs in the winter months in Pensacola.
smckean (Tosca)
New member
I really dislike the term "American Exceptionalism". The phrase itself conjures up an image of the USA somehow being the number one nation on the planet. I can't help but wonder how Germans, Japanese, Canadians, Spaniards feel about that. Besides it's a silly concept in this globally integrated world. A case in point.....this very racing yacht being discussed is the product of a team composed of many nationalities. I will make one comment and then rest my case:
The naval architect designer of Patriot, Marcelino Botin, and his firm, is Spanish. Whatever exceptional qualities the yacht has, and it certainly has many, is, as always with boats, primarily due to its designer. So....maybe we should call the Patriot an example of "Spanish Exceptionalism" Bah and humbug!
P.S. Just to rub salt in the wound, the Patriot's helmsman is Dean Barker......a New Zealander!
The naval architect designer of Patriot, Marcelino Botin, and his firm, is Spanish. Whatever exceptional qualities the yacht has, and it certainly has many, is, as always with boats, primarily due to its designer. So....maybe we should call the Patriot an example of "Spanish Exceptionalism" Bah and humbug!
P.S. Just to rub salt in the wound, the Patriot's helmsman is Dean Barker......a New Zealander!
Great points Sandy. The current (and last 30 years) have gotten away from the spirit of the "America's Cup" (Named after the Schooner "America").
The only requirements are the the hull be laminated in the country of challenge, and that 20% or 3 crew members be citizens of that country. "The remainder of the crew can be made up of residents of the challenging yacht club’s country which is defined by being physically present in that country for a minimum of 380 days over a two year period, between 1 September 2018 and 31 August 2020."
The America's Cup has always been about super boats and huge budgets. It has only gotten worse. I would much rather seen it sailed in identical boats, with a crew of citizens of the representative country. On the other hand, this type of racing has made huge improvements (???) in competitive racing. Now we have around the world racing in foiling monohulls. Foiling boats which are truly affordable. (For example a laser foiling kit is:about $pence 5,000.) For some wind surfers only about $600.
The current America's Cup budgets run from $50 million New Zealand (for boat and crew) to several hundred million (USA). Just the shore side facilities cost in the $150 million range.
I liked it better in slower non foiling monohulls that I could relate to. Now, it is who gets the start and unless they make a major mistake in a few minutes they have won the race. In the last America's Cup race in Bermuda, sailed in the 50' foiling catamarans the average race time was just over 20 minutes. Vs the 1983 race which we witnessed in Newport, Rhode Island took several hours for each race and the lead changed several times.
The only requirements are the the hull be laminated in the country of challenge, and that 20% or 3 crew members be citizens of that country. "The remainder of the crew can be made up of residents of the challenging yacht club’s country which is defined by being physically present in that country for a minimum of 380 days over a two year period, between 1 September 2018 and 31 August 2020."
The America's Cup has always been about super boats and huge budgets. It has only gotten worse. I would much rather seen it sailed in identical boats, with a crew of citizens of the representative country. On the other hand, this type of racing has made huge improvements (???) in competitive racing. Now we have around the world racing in foiling monohulls. Foiling boats which are truly affordable. (For example a laser foiling kit is:about $pence 5,000.) For some wind surfers only about $600.
The current America's Cup budgets run from $50 million New Zealand (for boat and crew) to several hundred million (USA). Just the shore side facilities cost in the $150 million range.
I liked it better in slower non foiling monohulls that I could relate to. Now, it is who gets the start and unless they make a major mistake in a few minutes they have won the race. In the last America's Cup race in Bermuda, sailed in the 50' foiling catamarans the average race time was just over 20 minutes. Vs the 1983 race which we witnessed in Newport, Rhode Island took several hours for each race and the lead changed several times.
Robert H. Wilkinson
New member
Harvey, thanks for the link to your "other boats we have seen" album. Many interesting boats! In particular the Kawanda Dory caught my eye. Love the sheer line and matching forward rake of the bow and windshield. The lapstrake lines of the fiberglass Cdory may be mostly for aesthetic value and keeping some spray down but the traditional Clinker built hull is a very strong design.
Unique boats are a thing of beauty and interest to me and I enjoy researching their design and purpose. My local marine broker(Bridge Yachts) currently have an owner built Jolly Roger 30 for sale. A beauty for sure but more boat than I need!
Regards,
Rob
Unique boats are a thing of beauty and interest to me and I enjoy researching their design and purpose. My local marine broker(Bridge Yachts) currently have an owner built Jolly Roger 30 for sale. A beauty for sure but more boat than I need!
Regards,
Rob
smckean (Tosca)":2m5idb70 said:
Many Americans, this one included, don't want to be considered exceptional. Maybe we want to be "above average", but not "better" than other people. Reminds me of a joke...
An American sailor dies and is suddenly standing at St Peter's gates. St Peter says...well, I see you are an American, a sailor, you have a love/hate relationship with comfort, and you've never taken anything for granted. You lived well, and you can enter heaven if you want. If not, you must go to hell.
The salty sailor, skeptical of the excess he sees at the pearly gates, asks for some evidence of what each is like...St Peter says:
Well, in Heaven, the French are the cooks, the Swiss are the bankers, the Italians are the lovers, the English are the police, and the Germans are in overall charge of running things.
The American sailor says "This sounds good". How about Hell?
In Hell, the English are the cooks, the French are the bankers, the Swiss are the lovers, the Germans are the police, and the Italians are in overall charge of running things?
The sailor asks "Which place has more boats"?
I'm primarily German/English, my wife's ancestry is Italian, but I suppose I've offended everyone to some extent in my life. My point is that it seems exceptional to use the skills and resources of such a wide variety of what the world has to offer to create, transport, and crew boats like these. That set of photos showed it.
I'll get back to lunch. I'm going squidding again today. Nothing exceptional about that.
starcrafttom
Active member
Yes it does and yes it should.
Now if the self loathing is over lets get back to boats.
I watched a great show on these boats that described many of the aspects of this amazing tech. I was not aware that the main sail is attached right to the deck to keep the wind from rolling under the sail and slowing the boat down. Some of the boat also have a longer keel that rides closer to the water in a effort to keep the wind from flowing under the keel . The whole boat , from top of sail to bottom of hull, is a foil that comtruibets to moving the boat. Even the shape of the deck acts a a lift wing. I also noticed how the hulls shape resembles a whales profile. Cool stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHcRlIdq41Q
smckean (Tosca)
New member
Tom, note I was not the one who picked this thread's title.
.
Much of this has roots in the 3 volumes written by Alexis de Tocqueville from his observations traveling in America Circa: 1831.
Exceptional has several meanings.
The definition depends on the way that "Exceptionalism" is used. In the case of the original post, I don't think that the uniqueness of America applies.
Exceptionalism has the meaning of unique as well as exceptional, special at any one point of time. I wonder what would have happened if the Unites States Australia, New Zealand and Canada had not entered WW II? Certainly World history would have been different.
None of this has anything to do with C Dorys, since I feel that the French and New Zealanders have the most passion for boating in the World. But American has been on the cutting edge of evolutionary boat development and perhaps that is what Barry meant. (French, Aussies, and Kiwis have certainly held their own in development)
Barry Rietz
New member
(Bob) Thanks for your assessment of the Title I chose to use for this article. It is exactly as you have assumed it to be, without a hint of any Political Statement in mind!