Anchor, Chain, Rode

D

dread

New member
Maiden voyage on my 2006 - 25 -- lost the anchor, chain and rode at Angel Island in SF Bay-- got caught on something and had to be sacrificed so that we could get home.

Any advice on the best weight of Bruce or Delta anchor (the owner's manual says those are the anchors compatible with the windlass), how much chain and how much rode is best?

Don Read
Tessa (as soon as we can change from Sea Fever)
2006 Cruiser 25
Berkeley
 
Aww, sorry to hear about your new anchor. I hope the rest of the maiden voyage was grand!

I don't have any specific C-Dory experience yet, but oftentimes when choosing an anchor/rode combination, it varies according to what you plan to do with the boat.

For examples of factors that could influence things: anchoring in coral, anchoring in very deep water, anchoring overnight, anchoring and leaving the boat unattended (vs. a lunch stop), anchoring where there will be tide reversals while you are there, local anchoring grounds being weed, or mud, or rock or etc.

How do any of the above factor into your typical plans for the boat?

Also, do you have a windlass or will you be hauling by hand?

PS: You may have tried this, but sometimes it's possible to rig a trip line so that you can pull "backwards" on a trapped anchor - that will sometimes dislodge it. Or you can buoy the rode and come back later to dive or otherwise try to get it back (depending on whether it is an area where that would be okay).
 
Hi Don,

We have a Delta Quickset 22# anchor with 50' of chain and 200' of rode as the main anchor on our 25. It has worked well for us in a lot of different bottoms. We also carry a danforth as a secondary, and another small danforth to use to keep the stern from swinging, if necessary.

Sorry to hear about losing your anchor and rode on your maiden voyage. Hopefully, that "offering" to Neptune will be enough, and you'll be on to smooth, easy boating from now on.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Sorry to hear about losing your gear. I am a firm believer in going up one size from the chart recomendation. Kerri On has a 22 lb Lewmar Claw with 45 feet of 1/4 hi test chain to 225 ft of 1/2 new England 3 strand. I just today took off my backup, a 16.5 lb claw with chain and rope and my stern hook, a 5 lb claw with chain and rode. I come from sail and it has taken a while to get over it. I just took the 5 lb claw off and coupled the rode to an 8 lb danforth type for a secondary or Lake Powell stern hook. I figure with the 22 lb main I should stay put in 60 knots with some protection from seas so feel safe getting rid of the extra weight. I just added a Lewmar 700H windlass, so my gear is fine for everything but Alaska. I will carry the 16 lb and rode for that one. I see many 22's rigged with 11 lb claws or 12 lb Manson, go up a size to 15 or so. I do not care for Danforth style hooks for your main as they are notorious trippers if the wind or current goes around. The other plow types, Bruce, Lewmar claw, Rochna or Delta will swing with wind and tide and reset. Great anchor gear leads to good sleeps and calm people aboard. Good cruises ahead for you.
 
On the CD25 I used a 16# Bruce with 35' of 1/4" chain and 300' of 1/2" nylon three strand. Always worked well for me. I use a Delta on the new boat but have limited experience with it to make any comparison. I keep a Bruce with full rode for a spare on board.
 
Ouch - do you know know divers? If yes - cut line and hang a fender in it so you can retrieve it.

I hope the rest of the trip was uneventful.
 
I doubt the windlass cares what type of anchor you use, but the roller might. I use a 15lb Manson Supreme with 50 feet of chain and 300 feet of nylon rode as my primary anchor and a 14lb Delta with 20 feet of chain and 200 feet of nylon rode as my backup. Both anchors have served me well, but I'd move up to a 22lb Delta or 25lb Manson for a CD 25.
 
My set-up is not unusual. 16# Bruce, 35' high test chain 1/4", 200' three strand nylon 1/2". Back up/Stern hook, small Danforth, 20' chain, 185' nylon 3/8".

Here's a question for you. Someone on the Brats said two shackles should be used, U to U, to join the chain to the anchor. Gives a bit more flexibility on the bottom and minimizes drag so as not to unset the anchor. Yet all the pictures I have seen in magazines etc, just show one shackle. Is there a right and wrong way, or doesn't it matter ?

Martin.
 
I've always used just one shackle, although it has been with a manual windlass, if that makes a difference. Many nights on the hook with no problems. For the chain to rope connection I used a splice.

The one thing I have heard is that there might be a problem in fitting a proper (high enough rated) shackle into 1/4" high-test chain. Perhaps that is why people end up using two? I'm thinking that if this fitment problem is real, then perhaps people have to put the pin of one shackle through the anchor and the pin of the other through the chain? I have not checked this myself as I have always used larger chain (larger boat).

Maybe someone can confirm if that is a problem or not -- I've always wondered (i.e. is there a high-test shackle that is rated higher than 1/4" HT chain that will also fit through it).
 
Ouch, sorry about the learning experience. Hopefully, you'll learn enough to keep that from happening. Anchoring gives all of us moments to remember. And learn.

Remember that Angel Isle was a major embarkation point during WWII, so I assume there's a lot of stuff laying on the bottom. Also, I thought that Angel Isle had a mooring system? Where did you anchor?

Anyway, here's what I would get for an anchor and why. Right off the bat, I'd get a Danforth, a 9 lb one costs $30. Here's why:

They work well in 99% of the bottoms. A Bruce works well in mud, but will not cut through grass. A Manson works well in grass, but pulls in mud. A Delta is a plough, and plows in sand and mud. A Fortress is light, and needs some weight to set. Everything sets well in sand. That's why all the tests are in sand.

Note that you have a lot of mud in SF Bay, and if you go up or down the coast, you'll have seaweed. So be aware of which anchor works where. I have a Bruce, works in the PNW, doesn't work in SoCal, where there's seaweed. I have a Manson, works well in seaweed, doesn't hold in mud. And the CQR on the sailboat ploughed in mud and sand. The Danforth isn't as classy and a little clumsier, but it works well in a lot of different bottoms AND it's cheap. A standard Danforth costs $30 (Defender.)

I assume you have the standard Lewmar 600/700 vertical windlass. Hopefully it's a 700. Either way, you'll need 1/4 HT chain, at least 30' And that windlass takes 1/2" rope. The manual recommends either medium 3 strand or plaited rope. You'll need a rope to chain splice, simple to do or ask at the local marine supply.

If you're worried about snagging the anchor again, rig a trip line and buoy to the front of the anchor so you can give it a different pull if/when it get's snagged. It's more trouble, but it'll guarantee you never get snagged again. And stay out of anchorages that have a lot of junk on the bottom.

Boris
 
OUCH! Sorry to hear you lost it. That can be expensive....

We have a Delta...it's a 14 lb version; we went off the Lewmar recommendation chart. So far it has held, even in some gusty anchorages. If I had to do it again, I'd get a 22#. The 50' of chain helps though and I believe we have 250' of main line.
 
I found that our 1/4" HT chain would not accept an oversized (5/16") shackle unless you put the pin through the chain. This is actually preferred by a lot of people on the site that responded to me. The larger shackle lobes and hoop should pass through the anchor eyelet. And by having the curved part through the anchor, this lets the shackle swivel with the chain when applying a side load. I made some kick ass line drawings when I was asking these questions. BTW, I have 200' of 1/2" 3 strand, backspliced to 50' of Acco 1/4" HT chain, and that is connected with a Crosby 5/16" shackle to a Lewmar Delta 14# galvanized anchor.

shackle.jpg
 
The guy at West Marine recommended their 8.5 lb anchor (looks like a danforth type) with 15' of 1/4 inch chain and 150' of 3/8 inch line. He thought their package with a 13lb anchor, 15' of 1/4" chain and 150" of 1/2 inch line was more than I needed, even though the lighter package is rated for boats up to 24' and mine is a 25' cruiser. Was his advice reasonable, or should I take the 8 lb. package back and get the heavier one?
 
dread":2fydicg2 said:
The guy at West Marine recommended their 8.5 lb anchor (looks like a danforth type) with 15' of 1/4 inch chain and 150' of 3/8 inch line. He thought their package with a 13lb anchor, 15' of 1/4" chain and 150" of 1/2 inch line was more than I needed, even though the lighter package is rated for boats up to 24' and mine is a 25' cruiser. Was his advice reasonable, or should I take the 8 lb. package back and get the heavier one?
Click to expand...

My take on this is that is not reasonable advice. I like to sleep at night when at anchor (more on that, later). I questioned whether our 22# Delta Quickset with 50' of chain was enough, but it has proven to be a good match up to our boat (same size as yours). One full boat length of chain is the minimum I'd suggest, more is better.

The way I have found to best sleep at night: right before turning in, I say to the Blonde, "I sure hope that anchor holds tonight," then let her worry about it. 8) Yes, I'm kidding. We have had situations where no one gets much sleep and we take turns checking the hold.

Most folks go with one size larger than the anchor mfg recommends.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
I agree with Jim,

The 8lb package is too light. Your anchor is a primary safety device. He has you getting an anchor recommended for a boat smaller than yours when a lot of (maybe even most) people get an anchor one size larger than is needed for your boat, We have a 22' and use a 14lb Delta with 35 feet of chain and 300 feet of line. And, that 3/8 inch line will get awfully hard on your hands after you've pulled in 100 feet or so.
 
I agree with Jim, go with the heavier anchor. And his recommendation of 15 feet of chain for a 25 foot boat, even a light C-Dory, makes me think he may be a bit short on experience with SF Bay tides, currents and all the other conditions that affect anchoring around there. Twice that much chain would not be excessive. Have you taken a look at a recent copy of Chapman's, the boating "bible"? It is a great resource for every thing having to do with boating that you can think of.
Rich
 
If you always tie up at night and never overnight on the hook and it's just to be legal you're fine. If you want to sleep all night it is woefully inadequate. See my earlier post. I have sat and studied the anchorage as 50 knots came thru and Kerri On stayed put. Lots of other guys had issues. Including a 37 ft sailboat with about 6 ft of chain on a teeny danforth type. I always say your anchor gear must keep you off the beach even when conditions go berserk. Using insurance to replace a wrecked boat is the hard way There is no substitute for big gear. Folks look at my 22 lb lewmar claw and ask. 16.5 would be fine. My boat stays where I put it. Go big. Get the windlass to pick it all up too George :smile
 
The anchor type depends on the bottom. Danforth type (West Marine Performance or Danforth High Test are the preferred Danforth type of anchors). Sand the Danforth is best. Mud the Fortress is best, Generally the Delta quick set and the Manson Supreme are also excellent anchors. My personal experience with Bruce or Claw type anchors is not good. I have several thousand nights at anchor--and usually used a Danforth or CQR (now superseded by Delta). 8# is too small for the C Dory 25--get a 12 # HT danforth or West Performance. In the Delta, the 22# is appropriate--about 25 lbs in the Manson. I like 50 feet of chain and at least 200 feet of rode. (I added another 100 feet on the current trip).
 
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