Anchor's Up again

[hardee]

OK, so now I have spent way too long looking for previous posts, and even google, for an anchor that I first found out about here on the C-Brats site. I have reread through most of what is in the Anchoring forum. I seem to remember it started with an "R". It was a spade shape vs a plow or claw, and it had a roll bar. There was some discussion about it and I sensed some antagonism towards the person who brought it up in several instances, who may have been a dealer or rep.

I would like to revisit that specific anchor, and have tried running it through the search engine here but without having the spelling of the name I am getting a ton of "not the right stuff".

Hope some of you have better memories than I do, and/or better search skills. Thanks for any help on this.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[Mighty Bite]

Try "Rocna" anchor and see if that's the one you're thinking about. I believe
it is out of New Zealand and it has a "roll bar".

 

[DaveS]

I seem to remember it started with an "R".
Harvey
SleepyC :moon

Rock?

(I just couldn't resist ....I do remember the discussion as well, but I'm unable to seriously answer your question, hopefully someone else can be much more helpful than I).....for some reason I'm thinking that it was manufactured in New Zealand.

 

[hardee]

Thanks to Mark:

Try "Rocna" anchor and see if that's the one you're thinking about. I believe
it is out of New Zealand and it has a "roll bar".
_________________
Mark on 3rd Byte

I checked already an that is the one. (Thanks again, Mark!) I sure don't want to start anything bad here, but I did like what I saw about that anchor. If anyone has or knows anyone with experience either good or bad, with one of these I sure would like to hear about it. Thanks Brat's, and looking forward to seeing you at the SBS CBGT.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[thataway]

A lot of good reports on the Ronca. The problem was that the developer (and this has happened with other anchors) had been promoting the anchor. This shouldn't detract from the anchor. Tests are very difficult to interput, but basically it is similar to the Delta or the Spade with a roll bar, and the reports from folks who use it are good. I stick with the Delta, since it works well for me, and the second anchor is a Danforth/Fortress type, since it is better in mud and some sands. The third is a fisherman, or Northill--again, works in different conditions, like weeds. So, no one anchor is the "solution".

The problem with some of these anchors is that there is no one perfect anchor and yes, the spade or Ronca might work slightly better in some conditions, but not in others...Is it worth the increased cost for our boats? There is also the Manson Supreme, which seems to be almost exactly the same as the Ronca. One question you have to ask is where the anchor is built, what steel is used, and how is it assembled (Drop forged, or fitted pieces being better than welded.) We may get away with Chinese copies in our small light weight boats, but not in a large and heavy boat.

If I was cruising full time in a 60 foot boat, I might try some of these other anchors--but I have had some very good experiences in the old fashioned: CQR, Delta (I think is slightly better than the CQR), Danforth, and Northill, with several thousand nights at anchor--and only dragging a hand full of times, in either impossiable conditions or when I used the wrong anchor. Technique in setting, precautions such as taking bearings and ranges, and appropiate scope can be just as important as the brand of anchor.

 

[hardee]

Thanks Dr. Bob, I am not opposed to the standards, (CQR, Bruce, Delta, Fortress etc), and I am not looking for a more expensive device. I am intriged by the "roll bar" and it's seemingly effective setting function.

Still curious if there is anyone that is actually using the Rocna. This has been viewed 215 times, so there are still a few Brats out there who may have some personal experience. Thanks for the responses,

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

edited for spelling x 1

 

[Anonymous]

I went so far as to locate a supplier which in my case is in Canada! I was not put off by the price which was high as well, but the dealer's information was shrouded with mystery for some reason. (read, I'm hiding something) Any way it was Bruce for us and no second thoughts.
Mike

 

[timflan]

I'm still thinking about a Rocna. I don't really like my current anchor/bow roller combination. My Bruce-style "Claw" doesn't self-launch or retrieve, and I'm not convinced that it actually holds particularly well. I was going to get a new bow roller, but then I thought "No. Start with the anchor. Get the anchor you want. Then get a roller that will work with it." Is that a Rocna? Could be.

I made the mistake of bringing it up here! Not that anybody got upset with me. It was Craig Smith of Rocna that made it all turn bad.

I wrote up my own assessment of Rocna's marketing practices over on Navagear.

 

[thataway]

I reviewed the Ronca video again. Remember that this was done on beaches, in various types of bottoms. Beaches are not representative of what we anchor on. The cohesiveness is much better in wet material (water)--note that the Ronca is tested in a wet environment, and the others seem to be mostly in the dry sand. To me the "bottom" where the Ronca set the best, was not the same as where some of the other anchors were set. Also the rate of dragging (speed of pull) was different in the various anchors. A rate of drag which the "tests" did on the other plow type of anchors is far faster than any boat would use in setting an anchor. We drop the anchor, let it sit, pay out scope and very slowly apply strain to it.

Also there was no test of the Danforth and Fortress, which are superior anchors in some circumstances.

Yes, the video is impressive. It is made to sell Ronca anchors. I don't know if the Ronca is any better than the Delta or Manson Supreme, but I don't think I will change, just based on this video. [/b]

 

[hardee]

Dr. Bob, Thank you for the tip on the Manson Supreme. Somehow in my searching I had missed this one, and I think it looks promising. Thank you also, for sharing from your incredible depth of knowledge and experience. Your posts are always enlightening.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[hardee]

Anyone have any personal experience with the Manson Supreme? It does look a lot like the R*_*_* . If West Marine is selling them, somebody is buying. Any C-Brats on that list? Thanks again.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[hardee]

Well it sure looks like the forum regulars are not using the Manson Supreme, which looks like a Delta plow with a roll bar and a reverse curved flange.

Sure would like to know if anyone has tried it. Thanks for the news, (Good or Bad),
Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[timflan]

Well they probably aren't! It's relatively new, so there hasn't been much time for market saturation. It's entirely possible that no C-Dory owner anywhere in the world has any experience with this anchor.

I've been researching these new anchors in earnest for the better part of a year. Let me tell you, there isn't a lot of information available, other than marketing material and a few sporadic anchor test reports.

And even when you do encounter anecdotal informational from individual skippers, it's just that...anecdotal. The "science" of anchor selection and anchoring is astonishingly inexact.

 

[hardee]

Tim, You said a bunch here:

The "science" of anchor selection and anchoring is astonishingly inexact.

I think there is considerable art as well as a science.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[Sea Skipper]

I've been using the Rocna 10 for the past season with excellent success. It sets somewhat better than my older Spade A80 and digs through weeds better. Picture in the Sea Skipper album near the end.

 

[timflan]

Hank, I'm VERY interested in hearing about it. Just so we all have the same picture in front of us...



What kind of roller is that?
Does it self-launch off that roller?
Self-retrieve? Or does it come onto the roller upside-down sometimes?
Do you ever get comments on it at the dock?
I assume you purchased from Suncoast Marine. How were they to deal with?

Thanks!

 

[Sea Skipper]

Anchor roller is a URM-7 made by Windline. I bought it directly from Windline; I don't believe that it is generally available. It fits the Spade 80 & 100 series anchors perfectly and I think Deltas and others as well. I modified it for the Rocna. I think the Rocna would fit the standard BRM3 roller normally installed on the C-Dorys, but I would verify that the anchor stock won't hit the end of the winch when stowed. The anchor self-launches as long as the roller turns easily on it's shaft and will self right about half the time when retrieving. I normally weigh anchor standing on the bow with a remote windlass control in one hand and boat hook for muck & seaweed removal in the other hand. Mark Pocock, president of Suncoast Marine, has been a real pleasure to work with. The anchor is well made, nice welding and made from high tensile steel. I carry a Fortress FX16 anchor for backup and a 3rd 9# folding grapnel anchor which I use in a Hammerlock moor to dampen the CD-25's tendencies to oscillate in the wind (sailing back and forth). My personal anchor choice for the CD25 would be in order: Rocna 10 (17#), Spade aluminum A80 (15#), Delta (22#) - The steel Spade S80 (38#) is a superb anchor but too heavy for the bow of the CD25. (weights are as measured)

Regarding comments on it at the dock -- I always cover the anchor in a black bag before docking to avoid the mob scene!

 

[thataway]

I was at our local West Marine superstore (expanded recently--almost as big as Wally world). Lo and behold, they had several Manson Supremes on the shelf. The 15lb (rated for 18 to 25 foot boats) was $175 retail and the 25lb (Rated for 25 to 35 foot boats) was $245. I suspect that prices will go up when the new catalogue is out.

The anchors were interesting--and if I was in the market for one, I probably would buy on--and I may still. The bottom of the fluke is concave. The shank has a long slot, so you can attatch the rode in a fashion that it can pull the anchor out, if it fouls, but this weakens the shank, plus would allow the anchor to trip, if the strain on the rode were to suddenly reverse. There is a single conventional eye which I suspect most people would use most of the time.

The only concern I have is that these anchors depend on a butt weld between the shank and fluke. I believe that the spade has the shank thru the fluke and then secured with a bolt. The Delta also has the similar weld. One of the beauties of a CQR or Bruce is that they are forged and do not depend on welds. The Claw is cast (and weaker than a forged anchor). I don't think that the weld is a problem in boats our size.

The other question I have, is does the roll bar (which is a pipe, not a solid rod) keep the anchor from burying as deep as it can? The depth that an anchor can bury is often essential for the best holding power. Many times the upper layer of the bottom is soft material, and there is a better holding substrait deeper, if the anchor can penetrate.

None of these anchors will be at an advantage in rocks either where they can be wedges (except the possibility of pulling the opposite direction with the Manson)--or in the ball bearing type of small stones, which no anchor holds well in.

Is the Manson Supreme better than the Delta or Bruce?--I don't know--but it looks like it might set faster. The comperable Delta, Fortress or Danforth is a bit cheaper and the Claw is much cheaper. Manson makes a forged version of the Bruce which is much more expensive (about 7 times! than the cast Claw).

 

[Sea Wolf]

I thought it would be useful to post a picture or two of the Manson Supreme Anchor to help folks visualize it:

Manson Supreme Anchor

 

[hardee]

Thanks Dr. Bob, I am kind of liking the Manson Supreme. Saw a very good demo on anchors today at SBS, and it was really evident that each one has it's moments.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon