Any cause for concern?

[tcr_pnw]

Good evening everyone, finally found a boat I am close to pulling the trigger on. It's a 2008 that has bottom paint. The boat for me is going to be trailered so the bottom paint is a turn off. I like the molded in color under the gelcoat. This paint is a thicker material that is not your normal paint. I'm being told its never coming off and won't need to be painted again. To be completely honest, I don't like it but am willing to look past it.

However, it looks like the boat was moored and the waterline was above the paint at the stern. Take a look. Any cause for concern? This is the only flaw in the boat but is nagging at me, especially since $42k is a lot of dough.

Thanks in advance,

Troy

 

[Sunbeam]

The boat for me is going to be trailered so the bottom paint is a turn off. I like the molded in color under the gelcoat. This paint is a thicker material that is not your normal paint. I'm being told its never coming off and won't need to be painted again. To be completely honest, I don't like it but am willing to look past it.

I don't know of any bottom paint that never needs to be painted again. Not that I know everything, but I'm reasonably familiar with it. The way bottom paints typically work is that they contain some sort of toxin (used to be tin, now often copper) and that toxin either leaches out (of a harder paint) or more is revealed as the paint sloughs off (ablative paint). But eventually the hard paint will lose its toxic effectiveness (even if the paint is still on the boat) and the ablative will wear thin.

There are some epoxy-copper type coatings that last a very long time, but I don't know of a blue one. The ones I have seen are a copper/epoxy type of thing and copper colored.

Worn out paint (i.e. no toxins) may not be a concern for you if you are trailering, but still, I would want to know exactly what type of paint it is, if at all possible, so that I could read for myself and know just what I was getting. Bottom paint is typically thicker than a regular type of paint (unless it's something like VC-17, but that's a freshwater paint).

However, it looks like the boat was moored and the waterline was above the paint at the stern. Take a look.

I don't actually see any problem because of the waterline being above the paint. What you would see that would be a problem would be growth (slime, barnacles) or blisters (not too likely, but you would be able to see them when the boat was first hauled). It does look a bit unconventional the way they "staggered" the paint around the engine and Mini-jacker, but i suppose that's because they are aluminum and thus aren't a good combination with copper (I've only painted larger boats with non-aluminum engines and etc.)

Any cause for concern? This is the only flaw in the boat but is nagging at me, especially since $42k is a lot of dough.

What I would want to check on a C-Dory that had been moored is the core. There are numerous penetrations into the core in the transom, and some of them have been underwater (trim tabs, transducers, drains, etc.). Plus I I'd want to check the general state of the hull and deck core, especially anywhere there are fittings, through hulls (if you have any), bilge pump baskets (if screwed down), etc. Most everything else is fairly obvious to the eye (except engine health of course).

Sunbeam :hot

 

[JamesTXSD]

I'm OK with bottom paint. In fact, we have put it on all our boats. While there are different types of bottom paint, the only issue I see with what is on there is the streaking... it makes me wonder if some sort of hull cleaner was used that was allowed to run down on the bottom paint? Again, not a deal breaker, a bit of the same bottom paint as touch up would go a long ways towards making it look... prettier.

Bottom paint is generally not smooth like the gel-coat. On a sailboat we used to race, we did have the bottom paint sprayed on in multiple layers and it was smooth as a baby's bottom. That really isn't necessary on a C-Dory. If it makes you feel any better, when I see bottom paint on a boat, I tend to think, "Now, there's a boat that gets to see some water time."

Just an opinion from viewing the photo, but have a boat yard look at it if you have any concerns.

Best wishes,
Jim B.

 

[tcr_pnw]

First off, thanks for the reply!

Worn out paint (i.e. no toxins) may not be a concern for you if you are trailering, but still, I would want to know exactly what type of paint it is, if at all possible, so that I could read for myself and know just what I was getting. Bottom paint is typically thicker than a regular type of paint (unless it's something like VC-17, but that's a freshwater paint).

It's a dealer boat on consignment. 2008 with '09 engines (little over 100 hours of use). The rest of the boat is, cosmetically at least, cherry. The dealer going call the owner for details on the coating. One thing to note is it is thick, think fingernail thick.

It does look a bit unconventional the way they "staggered" the paint around the engine and Mini-jacker

Same here! If I ever chose to short term moor during the summer, I'd want to get it all covered now!

What I would want to check on a C-Dory that had been moored is the core. There are numerous penetrations into the core in the transom, and some of them have been underwater (trim tabs, transducers, drains, etc.). Plus I I'd want to check the general state of the hull and deck core, especially anywhere there are fittings, through hulls (if you have any), bilge pump baskets (if screwed down), etc. Most everything else is fairly obvious to the eye (except engine health of course).

Dealer also going to ask about total time in water. They sold the boat new to the original owner.

Thanks again for the info. I'm a little ignorant regarding bottom paint and affects of moorage so the guidance is much appreciated.

Hope to be on the water soon.

 

[tcr_pnw]

I'm OK with bottom paint. In fact, we have put it on all our boats. While there are different types of bottom paint, the only issue I see with what is on there is the streaking... it makes me wonder if some sort of hull cleaner was used that was allowed to run down on the bottom paint? Again, not a deal breaker, a bit of the same bottom paint as touch up would go a long ways towards making it look... prettier.

Bottom paint is generally not smooth like the gel-coat. On a sailboat we used to race, we did have the bottom paint sprayed on in multiple layers and it was smooth as a baby's bottom. That really isn't necessary on a C-Dory. If it makes you feel any better, when I see bottom paint on a boat, I tend to think, "Now, there's a boat that gets to see some water time."

Just an opinion from viewing the photo, but have a boat yard look at it if you have any concerns.

Best wishes,
Jim B.

Thanks Jim. A reputable dealer has the boat on their lot on consignment. They sold it new. They are going find some back story on the paint and how much time it spent moored. Regarding the paint, he wasnt sure what it is. It is a really thick coating, like that of a fingernail. I would love to touch it up and finish out the transom where it is staggered but he thought it was pretty specialized.

Is it an issue to paint over those areas that sat uncoated? Where you can see the discoloration? Is the same paint required?

Thanks again,

Troy

 

[Larry H]

Copper containing bottom paint must NOT contact the aluminum motor parts. The copper will cause corrosion in the aluminum motor parts.

That bottom paint was patterned/spaced around the metal parts for that reason.

 

[tcr_pnw]

Copper containing bottom paint must NOT contact the aluminum motor parts. The copper will cause corrosion in the aluminum motor parts.

That bottom paint was patterned/spaced around the metal parts for that reason.

Thanks for clarifying Larry!

 

[Sunbeam]

Regarding the paint, he wasnt sure what it is. It is a really thick coating, like that of a fingernail.

That's not unusual for bottom paint, although at some point it's too thick (adds weight) and wants to be stripped back to start over - however that's unlikely on a 2008, as it's usually due to many years and coats of paint - sort of like old roofs with multiple layers of shingles. It's also possible a barrier coat was put on before the bottom paint, which needs a certain millage to work properly (usually around five coats). That would usually be grey, although not always.

I would love to touch it up and finish out the transom where it is staggered but he thought it was pretty specialized.

I really can't think of what bottom paint is so specialized that it couldn't be purchased and touched up. That said, as was mentioned above, I think you want to be careful with any copper paint around aluminum, because they are not close on the galvanic scale, and with the aluminum being less noble it will "sacrifice" itself to the copper. Maybe that's what the seller meant (?). However, that said, most C-Dory's have aluminum motor brackets and oftentimes aluminum Mini-Jackers, and I'm not sure I've seen this sort of staggered effect before, so maybe the zinc on the engine forestalls the problem? Others will know more about this than I do, as I have never had a bottom-painted saltwater boat with an aluminum engine/bracket.

Is it an issue to paint over those areas that sat uncoated? Where you can see the discoloration? Is the same paint required?

On the first part, see above about the possible interaction with the aluminum. Painting over the discolored part should be no problem. You may be able to use the same paint, but if not, then know that some bottom paints can be painted over others, but some can't. Generally, a softer paint can go over a harder one, but not vice-versa. Nothing can go over vinyl paints but more vinyl paint, but that doesn't look like vinyl and it's usually in fresh water anyway. If it's an ablative (soft) paint, and you rub it with a glove or etc. it will tend to "smear off" on you, so that's a clue. Also, unless things have changed (which they my have) not all bottom paints come in dark blue, so that's another clue. Interlux Micron Extra comes in navy (an ablative) and Pettit Vivid might too.

Here is a chart that shows a bit more about bottom paint compatibility:

http://content.westmarine.com/documents ... 12.xls.pdf

 

[potter water]

You've gotten some good advice...specially on inspecting for core rot. But from an aesthetic point of view:

There's a lot of "ugly" at the back end of that boat. Trailer looks a little corroded too. I think for your 42 grand you might be able to do better. I suppose I'd tell the dealer that AFTER they have really cleaned things up you would make them an offer. BUT with the boat being moored, who knows how well the prior owner kept things maintained. It's looking rougher than it should in the aft end there than a well maintained salt water boat should look when a dealer is trying to move it. To me, "UGLY" is only a red flag, not a deal killer. Where is as is, I'd shoot for south of 40 grand, perhaps significantly.

 

[thataway]

I don't see any major issue with the bottom paint--looks like 'hard" parent. Probably epoxy barrier first. Blue gel coat beneath. The stains above the paint are mostly splash lines, not water lines. They will clean up You can sand the paint (by hand, using a suit, and respirator)--and smooth it up, but little difference in speed. If you leave the boat in the water more than 2 weeks when cruising, the paint will retorted growth. I paint most of my boats even though they live in lifts and trailer. Vivid by Petit makes good paints for trailering and in collars which are suitable.

I do see a little corrosion on the outboard, and OB zinc--which should be replaced. Trialer looks OK--just was not washed and dryer after each launch--at least wash it.

If the boat is otherwise good--go for it, looking for water intrusion in the hull.

 

[Matt Gurnsey]

It looks pretty normal for a low use, four year old boat. Looks like the paint was professionally done, and done well.

The hard modified epoxy paints will lose effectivness with age, but will look good for years. It won't look all shiney like gel coat, but the boat was obviously used in salt water a bit, and the owner took precautions to prevent problems. That's the kind of care you're loking for in a used boat.

I'd say go for it.

 

[Larry H]

If the gap in the paint on the stern is a visual problem, that gap could be painted with a regular marine paint (NOT bottom paint), color matched to the bottom paint.

Most of the time, that gap will not be visible. You can't see it from inside the boat or when the boat is in the water.

 

[Robert H. Wilkinson]

If you are going to sand bottom paint - definitely take Bob's advice and wear a respirator - it can contain some nasty toxins.

Not sure about your area but in Canada a lot of lakes have banned ablative bottom paints containing copper. There is a company that makes a bottom paint that looks the same as copper but doesn't actually contain any. They use it on old woody's to maintain the heritage look.

Regards, Rob

 

[roydawn]

I'm betting the thickness of the bottom paint on that 4 year old boat is from an extra thick epoxy barrier coat. On my trawler the West barrier coat was almost an 1/8" thick. I would look close at the corrosion. Roy

 

[tokelandpete]

Wow
Don't sweat the small stuff. Around here bottom paint is a blessing. You dont even want to see it after a weeks of growth and stain without paint plus the effort to wash and rub it out. Now you can just pressure wash when done and your good.
Better off enjoying the boat and have fun.
Good luck

 

[Sunbeam]

Wow
Don't sweat the small stuff.

On the other hand, I think that before buying a particular boat is a good time to "sweat" stuff that may (or may not) turn out to be small. At this point, if there are any problems you have not bought them yet, and sometimes a little detail or clue can uncover something more significant. (And/or it may not even be a problem or flaw, per se, but just a matter of preferences on the part of the buyer.)

Many times it is just something small and insignificant, so no problem going on to make the purchase (yay!), but why not check? If nothing else, it can help to ease a nagging worry as one prepares to spend a (to most of us) significant chunk of money.

Sunbeam

 

[tcr_pnw]

Thanks everybody for all the great info and advice!

For me $42k is a large sum of money and should I spend it, I want the cleanest I can find for the price. While not my preference, bottom paint can be an asset, but the corrosion starting to show on the motors (which are only '09's) is the nagging part. I am unable to get any further info about when the paint was applied and how long it was slipped. Will continue the search unless more comes to light on this one. It is also lacking electronics for the price.

Thanks once again hopefully will be on the water soon.

Troy

 

[jsimmons248]

I am also in the process of finding and buying a C-Dory as you are but I have past experience with painting boat bottoms.

I highly recommend finding out what the current bottom paint is as this can have everything to do with where you go from here.

If the bottom has been painted multiple times there is a limit as to how thick it can get before the paint starts delaminating and you have to sand it down (or soda blast) to the fiberglass and start over (you normally find this with boats that are stored in the water and need the A/F refreshed periodically).

If it is a thick epoxy barrier coat (as suggested by one response I saw) then you mainly have a cosmetic issue assuming the existing paint is tightly adhered. A light sanding and application of Pettit's Vivid would really make it look nice and the paint is trailerable as well. If you don't need the anti fouling part there might be some other paint that can be applied over the epoxy but I am not sure exactly what that would be.

All the best with your purchase.

I hope to be joining the C-Brats as a boat owner one of these days myself!

 

[rogerar]

Really, it looks great to me! It maybe dead from being out of the water too long, but just recoat and launch-it's only paint!
Roger