Anything good coming out of Covid?

[JMacLeod]

Virus finally made it into the whitehouse,maybe there is a god after all!!

I am sad to see this statement. It is what is called "Schadenfreude"*;
a contradiction to one of the common teachings past on to us today
from most of the Great Thinkers who came before us (Buddha, Mohammad,
Jesus, Sufis, others): sympathetic joy, the opposite of schadenfreude.

I realize the writer may just not be aware and harbor no ill will.

Aye.

*

Schadenfreude, German: lit. ('harm-joy') is the experience of pleasure, joy, or self-satisfaction that comes from learning of or witnessing the troubles, failures, or humiliation of another. [It] is a complex emotion, where rather than feeling sympathy towards someone's misfortune, schadenfreude evokes joyful feelings that take pleasure from watching someone fail. This emotion is displayed more in children than adults. However, adults also experience schadenfreude, though generally concealed.

Researchers have found that there are three driving forces behind schadenfreude: aggression, rivalry, and justice.
...
Justice-based schadenfreude comes from seeing that behavior seen as immoral or "bad" is punished. It is the pleasure associated with seeing a "bad" person being harmed or receiving retribution. Schadenfreude is experienced here because it makes people feel that fairness has been restored for a previously un-punished wrong.

After spending most of my life with a Russian Jew, I noticed the only time I heard the term used in real life conversation was definition #3.
Exclusively to the point I didn't know there was any other definition.
My anecdote.
Aye.

 

[westward]

Ssobol,
Awesome job so far of pointing out the good things coming out of this crisis! Where do these feelings come from? (I’d like to avoid catching them)

 

[Foggy]

Ssobol, SNIP Where do these feelings come from? (I’d like to avoid catching them)

My understanding is 'these feelings' come from our midbrain, the amygdala,
not the most developed part (cerebral cortex) of our brain. The midbrain,
present in lower mammals also, governs emotion which, when stressed,
want victory, not truth.

Generally, feelings are not contagious unless you are particularly vulnerable.

Aye.

 

[hardee]

Don't know if this is a good thing or not, but it is a change for me, at least. I have done some cooking :shock: :disgust Very scary and I promise not to subject anyone here to my results.

I have gotten some home projects done and spent way too much time on You Tube.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[PaulNBriannaLynn]

I've made a habit of stopping by the grocery store on my way home almost daily. Due to the virus, I've learned to plan for a week or so of cooking. That's a big deal for me! I was also hoping I might loose a few pounds from not eating out, but so far that hasn't happened. :lol:

 

[dotnmarty]

I wish my daughter hadn't taken away my ladder but at least our lawn looks amazing.

 

[Spike]

I've made a habit of stopping by the grocery store on my way home almost daily. Due to the virus, I've learned to plan for a week or so of cooking. That's a big deal for me! I was also hoping I might loose a few pounds from not eating out, but so far that hasn't happened. :lol:

I found out why it is called covid-19, I have gained about 19 pounds since the start of the quarantine. My arms and face have a nice tan going on from the little light in the refrigerator.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

Food. I used to suffer from a strange and not uncommon phenomena when backpacking. As the food ran low at the end of a trip, I became really hungry. What little food I had was way more limited than what I have now in the house, but I still haven't had any concern. I haven't had that feeling of "oh no" I'm getting low on something. It's almost the opposite. I have found things in the back of the cupboard (spices and dried goods) that I haven't thought of for a long time. Stuff that the "Best By" date has long run out.

We've had plenty of interesting meals, some of which wouldn't even have a common name. I made a "sort of clam" chowder the other day that had dried lobster mushrooms from last fall instead of clams. And we had a tikka masala/garbanzo bean/turkey casserole. The collision of three cultures.

I'm also fortunate in that I'm a hermit by nature. It has been a lot harder for Beth.

 

[Foggy]

For minimalists, the rules are
you are in serious trouble to go without:
*oxygen for over 3 minutes
*water over 3 days
*food over 3 weeks

As consumers in N America, most don't think
in these terms, especially food.

This could be the time to change that.

Aye.

 

[JamesTXSD]

I once made it almost 24 hours without having an adult beverage at the end of the day.

Fortunately for us, Joan is a great cook and doesn't want anyone (me) in her kitchen. I don't like to cook, but I have gotten quite good at eating way before the pandemic. We used to have lunch out most days... so, we are actually eating better than before the "stay at home" stuff. So, our weight is the same, the internet is fast, with the "stay at home" eased up a bit, we can get out on our boat or the scoots.

Masks are required at the grocery store; they still don't allow any kids under 14 in there; and we have our choice of toilet paper brands. Other than the grocery store, we are staying pretty close to home. Walking, riding my bike, and exercising. Not fearful, but we are being cautious... and my hands are cleaner than they've ever been.

 

[Foggy]

All great points above, James. Hand washing ranks right up there along with no
kids in stores. Have you noticed "super sizing" has virtually disappeared?

Are you aware of the reason(s) some cultures do not allow "hands on the table"
at meal time? Hint: it has to do w/hand washing...

I'm finding most of us are quite cooperative, resilient and even tempered adjusting
to our new lives, even with the threat of losing beef, pork, chicken and milk
products.

If we loose TV (via censorship) and alcohol, watch out. There'll be trouble.

Aye.

 

[thataway]

This is an article by an associate professor of infectious disease at University of Massachusetts Dartmouth.

It is an excellent resource for the droplets spread and argument for masks and distancing. Also noted is the important of air flow, the effect of a talking, cough or sneeze in the particle spread. Also brought out is the "threshold" of viral particles, Long term exposure to low levels seems as dangerous as short term exposure to higher levels.

It is well worth the 10 to 12 minutes to read and digest the article.

Here are a few quotes:

In order to get infected you need to get exposed to an infectious dose of the virus; based on infectious dose studies with MERS and SARS (and this one), some estimate that as few as 1000 SARS-CoV2 viral particles are needed for an infection to take hold. Please note, this still needs to be determined experimentally, but we can use that number to demonstrate how infection can occur. Infection could occur, through 1000 viral particles you receive in one breath or from one eye-rub, or 100 viral particles inhaled with each breath over 10 breaths, or 10 viral particles with 100 breaths. Each of these situations can lead to an infection.

We know that at least 44% of all infections--and the majority of community-acquired transmissions--occur from people without any symptoms (asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic people). You can be shedding the virus into the environment for up to 5 days before symptoms begin.

The main sources for infection are home, workplace, public transport, social gatherings, and restaurants. This accounts for 90% of all transmission events. In contrast, outbreaks spread from shopping appear to be responsible for a small percentage of traced infections.

 

[NORO LIM]

Thanks for the link, Bob. That is an extremely well written piece. (I even learned a new word, "fomite"!) It is particularly timely since I have been in conversation with a friend who likes to entertain people with his uke playing and singing. He was much beloved by the memory care facility where his wife lives, but has had to curtail his visits. Now he has been playing and singing in friends and neighbors backyards. I think he is conscientious about trying to maintain distance. (He says he stays 15 feet away, but I know some of the backyard/patio arrangements in the retirement community where he lives may make keeping that spacing difficult.) I'm going to suggest, gently, that he read this article.

 

[Foggy]

Elevated body temperature seems to be a sign of COVID-19. I've been told, for
an upcoming annual physical, to tell the office in advance of my temperature
and that it will be taken again once in the office.

I'm looking at an article in JAMA (22Apr20) "Table 2. Presentation Vitals and
Laboratory Results of Patients Hospitalized With COVID-19" which shows only
30.7% of 5644 patients had an elevated (>38*C = >100.4*F) body temperature
on admission to the hospital.

This low % (< 1/3) of people testing (+) for the virus supports the finding of
asymptomatic carriers as well as giving questionable value to using elevated
body temperature as a screening tool for COVID-19.

Learn more to stay safe.

Aye.

 

[hardee]

Bob, Thanks for that link. That is a very good article, especially the part about the dynamics of particle spread from the various oral/respiratory events, (breathing, talking, coughing and sneezing). It is that info from my background that has me keeping (a responsible social distance) of 12 - 15 feet at least for any unmasked activity, and masked for anywhere there is anything less.

From the article:

"As we are allowed to move around our communities more freely and be in contact with more people in more places more regularly, the risks to ourselves and our family are significant. Even if you are gung-ho for reopening and resuming business as usual, do your part and wear a mask to reduce what you release into the environment. It will help everyone, including your own business."

(Emphasis is mine. H)

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[ssobol]

Elevated body temperature seems to be a sign of COVID-19. I've been told, for
an upcoming annual physical, to tell the office in advance of my temperature
and that it will be taken again once in the office.

I'm looking at an article in JAMA (22Apr20) "Table 2. Presentation Vitals and
Laboratory Results of Patients Hospitalized With COVID-19" which shows only
30.7% of 5644 patients had an elevated (>38*C = >100.4*F) body temperature
on admission to the hospital.

This low % (< 1/3) of people testing (+) for the virus supports the finding of
asymptomatic carriers as well as giving questionable value to using elevated
body temperature as a screening tool for COVID-19.

Learn more to stay safe.

Aye.

Fever is a way that the body fights infection. Elderly people and people with immune compromise may not generate a sufficient fever response to an infection to go over the 100.4 deg threshold leading to a false negative result from the fever test.

 

[TyBoo]

Here's something I found good about this Corona mess. I have been carrying boxes of nitrile gloves around in the car and truck and find they are real handy to have for lots of things. It's a habit I will keep even after we get back closer to normal.

I always have some heavier disposable ones on the boat for using at pump out docks and sometimes for handling bait, but hadn't thought to have the cheaper ones all over the place. Very handy, indeed.

Tossing them in the trash after a single use might not be so great for the environment but my hands really like them.

Ok - back to talking science stuff.

 

[Foggy]

Elevated body temperature seems to be a sign of COVID-19. I've been told, for
an upcoming annual physical, to tell the office in advance of my temperature
and that it will be taken again once in the office.

I'm looking at an article in JAMA (22Apr20) "Table 2. Presentation Vitals and
Laboratory Results of Patients Hospitalized With COVID-19" which shows only
30.7% of 5644 patients had an elevated (>38*C = >100.4*F) body temperature
on admission to the hospital.

This low % (< 1/3) of people testing (+) for the virus supports the finding of
asymptomatic carriers as well as giving questionable value to using elevated
body temperature as a screening tool for COVID-19.

Learn more to stay safe.

Aye.

Fever is a way that the body fights infection. Elderly people and people with immune compromise may not generate a sufficient fever response to an infection to go over the 100.4 deg threshold leading to a false negative result from the fever test.

Right. The reason it was mentioned is to question "why" a person's temperature
is a screening aid for COVID-19 since most (about 2/3) 'tested' will be afebrile
AND some of the other 1/3 (temp >100.4*F) may be false negative.

Just does not seem to be that helpful a screening tool so commonly recommended
and used; too many false negatives in people with the virus.

Aye.

 

[ssobol]

...Tossing them in the trash after a single use might not be so great for the environment but my hands really like them. ...

I've noticed that the newest kind of litter are nitrile gloves. Find them all over the parking lots of stores.

Some people are such pigs.

 

[thataway]

There are a number of other studies which confirm that taking a temperature is really not a good way to prevent COVID 19 spread, and it may prevent patients with other illnesses from getting medical care. Over 45% of viral spread is during an afebrile time in the illness, even if there are symptoms. There are still a high percent of people who can be spreading the virus and be totally asymptomatic thru the entire course of the infection.

Stay with distancing and masks.

There are also inherent issues with many of the non contact thermometers being used, where they either under or over register temperatures, when compared to contact thermometers.