Automatic Inflatable PFD's

[hardee]

On big trips or big water I always, always wear a full coastguard float suit. Its not auto inflate. A life preserver around here will save your life, a suit will keep you alive.

"stuff clipped"

In the crowded waters of Puget sound on a sunny day I often don't wear a thing I just keep the float coats handy
Chris

I might beg to differ with the results of wearing a life preserver in the PNW. In our waters, the temps run 45 - 50 degrees most of the year. The life preserver will save your life if someone is within earshot when you hit the water or for about 10 minutes. Otherwise, they are just good for finding the body. Still, that is what I wear -- always.

The suit is the way to go if you are going to be in the water for any length of time over 10 minutes. On another note: Any time someone goes into the water here, a real probability is cold water shock resulting from head and/or face submersion into the cold water, resulting in cardiac shock and possible ventricular fibrilation and sudden death. The likelihood of this increases with age and lower water temps.

Interesting thoughts about going out of an overturned C-Dory. My guess is that the cabin will not be filled with water initially, if the cabin door was closed at capsize, both allowing some time to get oriented, and not initially inflating the auto inflate PFD as well possibly making it hard to get the door open against the water pressure.

Might be a good idea to carry the required (non-inflatable) PFD's in the cockpit instead of the v-birth.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[berryst]

Harvey,
We agree that going in the water around here is all bad.

I have several float coats on board and I always have company wear them. I have preservers too but the float coat will keep the core warm for a long time. The time that it takes for hypothermia is different for every one. I submit that in these waters it is hypothermia that kills not drowning

As far as boats flipping/sinking I have tried to find evidence of this and have not been able to. It must happen...do you know of any?

I do know about a plane wreck where every passenger who inflated thier vest was stuck to the ceiling and could not get out. All the others did get out. The temptation to inflate the vest in a crises must be great
Chris

 

[colobear]

As part of our CG auxiliary boating safety training from the Coast Guard it was drummed into us that most deaths up here result from drowning, not hypothermia. What we were told was that after about 10-15 minutes in our 50 degree water one loses fine muscle control, i.e. cannot climb a ladder or hold a rope, but that actual death from hypothermia takes about an hour. And that in most (80%) "falling in the water" deaths the victim drowned and was not wearing a life jacket. We wear our auto-inflatables almost 100% of the time and have "regular" jackets available. We also have a float coat and a "Mustang" suit for when we are in remote areas

 

[rogerbum]

I also have float coats and bibs for the longer trips and for the winter but in the summer, they're just too darn hot to wear all day. In the summer, I go with the self inflating pfd.

 

[DaveS]

What we were told was that after about 10-15 minutes in our 50 degree water one loses fine muscle control, i.e. cannot climb a ladder or hold a rope

The end of September 2009, I was a student in a 16 Hour NFPA (National Fire Protection Association) Marine Rescue Technician Class. On the morning of the second day of class all of the students and the instructor entered the waters of the Puget Sound wearing swimming suits but not PFDs and were instructed to tread water for 10 minutes. (The water temperature was in the high 40's to very low 50's...I don't recall the actual temperature). At the end of 10 minutes we were permitted to exit the water. The swimming buddy I was with volunteered to stay in the water for an additional 5 minutes with me to see how we performed. When our total of 15 minutes was completed we were able to climb back on to the dock unassisted. I would suspect that I could have gone an extra 5 minutes but unsure if I would have been able to self extricate myself from the water. This was in protected waters. If an individual not wearing a PFD was in the "open sea" with wave action, he/she would most likely be unable to tread water much more than 15 minutes.

As has been stated on this thread before, a person certainly doesn't want to be in these waters for any length of time. Without a PFD, the person had best be plucked out of the water extremely fast. (Just think of how much time it would take for another individual to pilot your vessel through choppy water to retrieve you and actually get you back in the boat).

Personally, I have yet to be drawn into a desire to wear the inflatable style PFD's, as I've not found the Type III PFD Flotation Vest with all the "bells and whistles" attached to it (which I wear all the time on the boat) uncomfortable to wear at any time in the PNW waters. (Not even in the heat of our ONE WEEK of summer). As I've stated before, there have been several occasions where I was walking on the dock some distance from boat before I realized that I was still wearing the PFD.

 

[Almas Only]

I happen to prefer the auto-inflates, which worked flawlessly for me the one time I fell overboard, and which, between the two we have, have only falsely inflated two times over the years - once after being left to vibrate on the floor while driving down the highway, and once after a driving rainstorm and being left flat, rather than hanging up.

Be that as it may, I also spend time wearing the USCG-AUX Type III vests, because I have to, but after wearing one into the water, will not allow them on our personal boat. My experience with this unit is that it does three things consistently: keeps me hot during the summer, keeps me floating in the water, and turns me face down in that water within about 15 seconds when I relax and let myself go limp to simulate being unconscious. My conclusion is that if I go into the water after a heart attack or blow to the head, the only thing this unit will do is facilitate recovery of my dead body.

If anyone has had good experience with these, and wants to wear them, so be it. We're not all built the same, and maybe they'll do the job for some that they don't do for me. But, if you're going to rely on a pfd to save your life in the water, then get into the water with the unit on, let yourself go limp, and see what happens. It you are not consistently rolled onto your back, with your head well out of the water, you probably should take a look at other approaches.

 

[Falco]

Didn't have a chance to review this post in detail so I hope this is not duplicate information but I have owned a set of Mustang hydrostatically inflatable PFDs for years. The model number is MD3183. I have never had to use them (knock on wood) but have been impressed with their comfort, rapid adjustability, how well they have held up (7 years) and the ease with whicjh the cartridges are replaced (based on the expiry date stamped on the cartridges - usually about 5 years). I would recommend them if they fit the bill for you. They are worth the price.

 

[thataway]

How many C Dorys have capsized? To my knowledge only the one in the extreme surf -- and that boat may have already had water in the boat before the capsize/roll.

I don't know the full stability curves on a C Dory, but I suspect that they are much higher than the average boat that size. The risk of going into the water is when you are on deck/fishing/etc--not when you are in the cabin. There are other boats--including large purse seiners, where that may not be the case (i.e. more large purse seiners have capsized than C Dorys!)

 

[hardee]

So we have Hypothermia and Drowning both as cause for death in the 40-50 degree water.

Hypothermia = decrease in core body temperature causing loss of coherence, fine motor control and the bodies ability to maintain viable internal temperature. Hypothermia is measured in stages, 1-4 from un controlled shivering to limb movement causing cold blood return to the heart causing ventricular fibrilation and death.
Drowning = induction of fluid into the lungs preventing respiration and oxygen absorbtion and suffocation.

Enter COLD WATER SHOCK = the result of sudden emersion into cold water (could be anything below 60 degrees) that, due to the cold onto face, head and neck areas can cause the heart to go into fibrillation and loss of consciousness === thereby causing drowning through the unintended aspiration of water into the lungs in the bodies attempt to breath. SO sudden cold water emersion can cause drowning long before there is time for hypothermia to set in.

In that case, is anything less than a full emersion suit really going to do any good?

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[hardee]

Just re-armed my Mustang inflatable (MD3184)'s and had an interesting experience. Since I was doing it because they were due, and had not been activated I put one on, and pulled the yellow T handle. In about 2-3 seconds the left chamber was fully inflated.......... nothing in the right. Spooked me for a bit, in about 20 - 30 seconds I reached down, and unclipped the buckle and BANG like a 22 pistol and instantly the right side was inflated.

I will be talking to Mustang about it but my guess is that it was due to the fold at the top going over the back must have been blocking the transfer of pressurized gas across the back.....UNTIL I loosened the pressure (which was quite tight) --- tighter than I ever had done in the practice - oral inflation - to test to see if it would hold air.

On the second one, I had it laying flat on the table, pulled and the whole thing inflated in about 3 seconds.

Now it is time to do the Sterns/West Marine ones too, and have everything on the same replacement schedule. Oh wait --- that won't work because they are on a 3 year replacement and the Mustangs are on a 5 year. Oh well. (The difference is that the Sterns are on a moisture sensor type actuator and the Mustangs are on a hydrostatic pressure actuator.)

Isn't boating fun :?: :wink

Harvey
SleepyC:moon